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[GlyphGryph]

Hey all! I guess I'm Think now!

First off - fuck y'all, especially Meph, for having a game interesting enough I was following it despite my promise to myself to never come back to this board again. -_- From there, it was obviously going to be a matter of time before I felt the need to contribute.

I'll have to review stuff, but there was one thing I noticed - something definitely didn't jive about some of the wincons.

So I'd like people to repost them, and be clear - is your goal to:
Get to the ship
Have anyone get to the ship
Escape
Have anyone escape.

Because

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO GET TO THE SHIP ARE THE TOWN

may be true, but Toony originally claimed his wincon was to escape. And I can confirm that is, in fact, a survivor wincon - my role makes it pretty damn clear that I am not "town", I do not win if "town" wins, I win if "I" win, and I win by escaping.

Jim, PowderMiner was correct here - Escaping on the ship is, in fact, the survivor goal. If your wincon really is "Escape on the Ship", I can't imagine it wasn't clear to you as well. So why, exactly, was it so confusing for you? And why, like ToonyMan, did you switch from "get to the ship" to "escape"?

It sounds like the town goal is for people to get to the ship. While your confusion here is fairly suspicious, though, it could be down to difference in flavour. But still - you insist it should be obvious that "town" wincon is getting to the ship, that powder miner shouldn't have been confused, and yet at the same time you claim that isn't your own wincon - that your own wincon is to escape. Why? Jim Groovester

ToonyMan's switch from "get to the ship" to "escape" though, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense except as someone trying to piggy back off others and get a "reasonable" sounding wincons.

[ToonyMan]

My wincon has always been escape to the ship.  I used get on the ship because it didn't sound exactly like my PM.  It's completely trivial in the first place anyway.  This is so stupid.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim, PowderMiner was correct here - Escaping on the ship is, in fact, the survivor goal. If your wincon really is "Escape on the Ship", I can't imagine it wasn't clear to you as well. So why, exactly, was it so confusing for you? And why, like ToonyMan, did you switch from "get to the ship" to "escape"?

It sounds like the town goal is for people to get to the ship. While your confusion here is fairly suspicious, though, it could be down to difference in flavour. But still - you insist it should be obvious that "town" wincon is getting to the ship, that powder miner shouldn't have been confused, and yet at the same time you claim that isn't your own wincon - that your own wincon is to escape. Why? Jim Groovester

Okay, sure. People win individually.

But it's inaccurate to call them survivors since a survivor can win with any team and there is clearly one group at minimum in clear opposition to that goal. There is a sizable group of people who need to escape and presumably a small group trying to stop them. A clear town team and scum team, with some variation because of the game type.

So I'd like people to repost them, and be clear - is your goal to:
Get to the ship
Have anyone get to the ship
Escape
Have anyone escape.

Get to the ship

to escape.

Dariush/Toony:  Why do you think it's a good idea to try something the mod specially said was a bad thing?

This is a bastard game, remember?

And ignoring bad mod omens is a good idea because...?

ToonyMan for suggesting terrible plans and also being a claimed dopp.

[Dariush]

Book:
Oh, so you prefer to waste my time by separately quoting and arguing with my every point. So be it.

Pilot stuff

Sure, they weren't scum. They were survivors, whose goal was to survive by whatever means possible. Why do you think those means wouldn't have included fakeclaiming?

So you aren't trying to find a way to kill townies? Do you think that getting "a bunch" of escapees captured thanks to a nolynch is not a way to kill townies? Will the scum capture themselves?

I don't believe Meph and the fact that more people will die if we no lynch. The flavor for both NK's didn't look like something xenos would have done. They may have been done by infiltrators among us, but then no-lynching won't allow them to kill more people, because that makes no sense.

Sure, it's a bastard, but I see no reason to think Meph lied on his description of a nolynch, as it is consistent with the flavour, and he hasn't been shown to lie yet on votecounts, flavour and the like. Do you really think he's lying about this, and are you willing to sacrifice 2+ escapees to test it?

Yes, I think he's lying. I really doubt 2+ people will die during the night, but if they do, yes, I'm willing to risk it.

How is my first post of the day, the first time I ever voted him, "tunneling" him? But more importantly: why would you care at all about me "tunneling" Toony? If I was tunneling you, I'd understand it, but I wasn't. You admit you jumped in to prevent me from attacking him. That's scummy as hell.

I jumped in because your attack made no goddamn sense. The sarcasm in his line was so obvious that a retarded monkey could have seen it. Since I desperately, desperately hope you're above the level of a retarded monkey, I assume you knew it was sarcasm and still went on with your bullfuckstupid attack.

Certainly lynching people whose alignment we suspect is anti-town is better than lynching townies on purpose or nolynching to see whether Meph was sincere about that "bunch" thing. I do agree that there's probably some elements about the game we're not seeing yet (the dopps may yet get hungry, for starters), but nolynching is not conducive to figure it out at all. Do you have any other ideas? You know, something that is not losing the game on purpose?

Look how masterfully you dodged my question. You didn't answer anything. Here, I'll bold it so you won't wriggle out so easily.

Are you aware that if we continue the current course of action, no people will remain until the game end? What do you think we should do to make someone survive?

I don't care what you agree or disagree with. I don't care about your stance on no-lynching. I won't answer your questions until you answer mine. I demand the fucking answer.

For starters, if more than one guy dies during the night, we're down six or more players, none of which seemed to be anti-escape; how close do you think we'd be to losing the game by then? Do you think you'd have enough time to use your new knowledge of "oh, apparently, someone is indeed out to get us"? How would you use it?

La-la-la, I can't hear you until you answer my fucking questiooooon.

GG:

snip

Uh, why did you point out the distinction between 'get on the ship' and 'escape'? Do you have any reason to believe those two goals aren't the same?

UI:

Yep, Toony and Dariush are both scum. Both of you, tell me: Why do you think it's more important to no-lynch for Science than to actually hunt scum?

Are you bullshitfuckinsane, stupid, blind or any combination of the three? I explained like ten times my current thoughts.

Are you aware that if we continue the current course of action, no people will remain until the game end? What do you think we should do to make someone survive?

[GlyphGryph]

Uh, why did you point out the distinction between 'get on the ship' and 'escape'? Do you have any reason to believe those two goals aren't the same?

I do. Now, which is it for you? Which of the options do you feel you need to accomplish (or need for anyone to accomplish) to win?

Jim:
Of course, you're ignoring the existance of a clear REAL town team - the group who's wincon is supposedly "anyone gets to the ship". Because let's be honest, the "survivor" team isn't much of a team if they win individually. They certainly aren't what I traditionally think of as town. They are certainly allied with town due to circumstances, but if other wincon claims are to be believed, we have an actual town as well.

Also, we've got our scum, I'd just like to point out that I think we should shorten. Why waste time standing here when we should be running? I know y'all love to freak out when I actually bold it, though, so I'll just leave it here as a statement of belief this time around. Despite how much it pains me to do so.

More seriously though, if we DO ever try no lynching, I recommend we decide the day before and then shorten like fuck the day of. If anything will see us through a day without killing someone, it's wasting no time with talk. I don't know if it would WORK, but it's better than Toony and Dars "fuckitall brand stupidity" plan.

[Dariush]

Why waste time standing here when we should be running? I know y'all love to freak out when I actually bold it, though, so I'll just leave it here as a statement of belief this time around. Despite how much it pains me to do so.

Wow, I didn't even think about shortening in the context of this flavor. Shorten.

I do. Now, which is it for you? Which of the options do you feel you need to accomplish (or need for anyone to accomplish) to win?

Escaping, obviously. What's the point of getting to the ship, but not escaping?...

[Urist Imiknorris]

Goal: Escape.

Dariush:

Are you aware that if we continue the current course of action, no people will remain until the game end? What do you think we should do to make someone survive?

Holy what the balls. There would be at least two people left. Do you remember D2 of Paranormal 20? That's how stupid you're being.

I do. Now, which is it for you? Which of the options do you feel you need to accomplish (or need for anyone to accomplish) to win?

Escaping, obviously. What's the point of getting to the ship, but not escaping?...

Sabotage?

Shorten.

[Dariush]

Dariush:

Are you aware that if we continue the current course of action, no people will remain until the game end? What do you think we should do to make someone survive?

Holy what the balls. There would be at least two people left. Do you remember D2 of Paranormal 20? That's how stupid you're being.

There would be at most two people alive.

What do you think we should do to make someone more than two people survive?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Eliminate the scum.

[GlyphGryph]

Well if we're shortening without people going stupid over it, I'm always up for that. Shorten

[Dariush]

Eliminate the scum.

You're so stupid. I would laugh at your sheer stupidity if I didn't want to cry.

[GlyphGryph]

Why?

If scum are killing one person a night, eliminating the scum seems like an AWESOME way to have more people alive at end of game, no?

[Mephansteras]

The Vote Tally
Toonyman: Bookthras, IronyOwl, Jim Groovester, GlyphGryph, Urist Imiknorris, Zrk2
No Lynch: Dariush, Toonyman


Rest phase ends ~5pm Pacific Tuesday. There are 3 votes to Shorten the day. A total of Six is required to Shorten.

[Toaster]

Toony:  Oh look- we can get rid of someone scummy and whose goal it was to survive on the ship!


Toonyman.


I simply don't believe in any way that not believing Meph is a good plan in this case.  Can you find me any instance in this game of Meph lying?  This question extends to Dariush as well.


GG gave me an idea of a question to ask, though.


Meph:  Given the flavor of the phases (resting/running), are extensions or shortens relevant to the outcome of the game?

[Mephansteras]

Meph:  Given the flavor of the phases (resting/running), are extensions or shortens relevant to the outcome of the game?

You're being actively hunted, so taking less time to rest might help you elude capture.