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[Mii]

Native: Dariush might have been lying, do not forget - it might be liberal that the religion has to be on for him to be lynched and he might have been bluffing so he could stay another night.

In about thirty minutes, I'll be leaving for around three or more hours. Just a heads-up. It might not even matter because of the night drawing near.

[NativeForeigner]

If that was the case, he would have stayed dead last night.

[Mii]

Tiruin: You have failed to join in our lively conversation for the past 20 hours. Why is this?

Native: Yes, true. He could be lying, anyway, with any circumstance. I don't trust scum, especially obvscum - I don't recommend you do so either. Shifting won't do any harm, really, unless he said that just to make you shift because he might need someone else to shift for him to actually stay alive. I'm just trying to see what the consequences might be for you (or anyone, really) believing what he says.

[Toaster]

It's pretty clear that the Shift Plan has flopped and died.  We can at least see what the final ones are, compare them to claims, and see what happens.

I don't recommend listening to a word Dariush says.

[NativeForeigner]

Meh, I'm gonna dayshift Social to the right before the day ends.

[GlyphGryph]

Sorry, got quite busy.

Day ends in 10 minutes, night ends... well, in the morning. So... 9 hours? Soon as I get up to open the new day, heh.

[Tiruin]

Oh great. I wake up and it's the beginning of night.

Uh, following the issue shift then. Shifting Religion to the left then, now less Conservative.

[GlyphGryph]

Night is being extended until I stop feeling like absolute crap. who knows how long that will take. :/

[GlyphGryph]

Gogdamnnit I hate weekends. Okay, we SHOULD have the official, with flavour, night end sometime in the next 12 hours.

Night will last 10-12 hours from that because seriously, why I did I do it this way, it's stupid.

That is all.

[GlyphGryph]

Spoiler: State of the Game (click to show/hide)

Attack Ad Targets list! (Let me know if I missed one of your votes or unvotes!)
1. Dariush <- Tiruin, Bookthras, Toaster, NativeForeigner, Urist McUselessNoble, Urist McUselessNoble, Mii, Bookthras
2. Toaster <- Dariush
3. Bookthras <- Dariush
7. UristMcUselessNoble <- Dariush
8. Mii <-
9. Tiruin <- Public Scrutiny, Bookthras, Urist McUselessNoble
10. NativeForeigner <- Bookthras


Public Opinion:
Social: Conservative
Religious: Arch-Conservative
Economic: Arch-Conservative

The Primaries! Thrilling. Exhilarating. And over, all too soon. Dariush, riding high on his triumphant return, held an early lead - but that was quickly dashed to pieces by the relentless attacks of his fellow nominees. By the end of the day, his name was mud - not even his amazing ability to turn a negative into a positive could overcome the mudslinging and muckraking that brought him down in a hurricane of scandal and public resentment.

The others quickly split into two groups - those who were neck and neck to win the primary session, and those who weren't even close. With Dariush eliminated and the radical base making a strong showing in the primary both, many of the more moderate hopefuls were left out in the cold.

Finally, a clear victor emerged - Bookthras steadily climbed in the polls until, barely edging out his nearest competitors, he ended the day in the coveted position of front runner.

Now, for a short couple days, at least, the candidates can rest and relax. Things are not over yet, however - the Caucuses are not far away now, and the National Committee has mentioned a few small changes to this year's proceedings...

Bookthras becomes The Frontrunner!
Dariush has been lynched!

Compaign Break:
The players are allowed to talk tonight. Come morning, the Caucus season will being. Night ends in 16 hours. Or so. Fuck if I know, so much for being quick-ish... We'll just say it's longer than normal on account of the flavour gap.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Spoiler: summary of claims (click to show/hide)

Tiruin: Arch-Conservative across the board.
Dariush: Social Super-Conservative, Economic Super-Conservative and Religious Conservative. Confirmed lying scum. Actually Economic Moderate and Religious Liberal.
Mii: Social Super-Conservative, Economic Super-Conservative and Religious Conservative.
Toaster: Social Super-Conservative, Religious Super-Conservative and Economic Conservative.
Bookthras: Social Super-Conservative, Religious Arch-Conservative and Economic Moderate.
NativeForeigner: Social Super-Conservative, Economic Super Conservative and Religious Moderate.
UristMcUselessNoble: Social Liberal, Religious Conservative (confirmed by Bookthras) and Economic Arch-Conservative.

Public Opinion:
Social: Conservative
Religious: Arch-Conservative
Economic: Arch-Conservative

Well, well, well, well...

Pointcount:
Tiruin: 4 pts.
Dariush: Up to 2 pts.
Mii: 2 pts.
Toaster: 2 pts.
Bookthras: 3 pts.
NativeForeigner: 2 pts.
UristMcUselessNoble: 2 pts.

At least one of Book and Tiruin is lying, fakeclaiming scum.

There are only two ways in which Book could even draw even with Tiruin: By have fakeclaimed SuperCon for Social despite being only Con, or by having fakeclaimed Moderate for Econ despite being ArchCon.

Neither is remotely plausible.

So, Tiruin, got any last words for the voting public before we send you back to New York or whatever other Liberal place you came out of?

[Bookthras]

Woohoo! The front runner is me! It's lonely here at the top.

Yeah, I restate (in case of doubts) that I'm Social Super-Conservative, Religious Arch-Conservative, Economic Moderate; for the record, I shifted (or kept) religious at Arch-Conservative. Inspired, somewhat after the fact, by this:

Spoiler: How modern is your religious debate? (click to show/hide)

Arch-Religious Santorum per Sæcula Sæculorum!

No one expects the American Inquisition!

Given that we can talk at night, I welcome opinions as to my night action. I can shoot someone, or inspect up to two people's religious stance. I've not yet inspected Toaster and Mii, I could inspect them both tonight. (For clarity: I welcome and appreciate suggestions, but the final choice of action is mine alone.)

I will send my night action in approximately ten hours from the time of this post (GG: please say if there are different deadlines).

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Tempting as it indisputably is to just shoot the obvscum and be done with it, I find Toaster difficult to read and we have fuck all data on Mii. So I would really, really like an investigation on them.

OTOH, there's no good reason to have obvscum around. It screws up scumhunting because everybody keeps semi-lurking, just waiting for the day to end and the obvscum to go away. Today was mostly unproductive - it felt like most of us were just going through the motions to get rid of Dariush.

[Tiruin]

First of all, Bookthras, hold your fire and save it for the real third-party. I am not the third-party. As the votes go, I'll be lynched tonight or in the morning(?). Question as if we can lynch at night. Anyway, I am not lying about my Archy-ness. If I was, then Bookthras would have a double vote on me based on all that red smeared on my name, coming from Day 2 to be exact. Also, I won't lie about being all Arch-Conservative, seeing the variance in all the issues. McNoble, why do you find that so unbelievable, and I want an explanation.

Now, I didn't lie about the Day 2 shifts when they were moved to Conservative, as McNoble blocked me.

As an aside, I'm beginning to seriously regret polishing off Toony. I'm halfway tempted to go through D1 with a comb to see who was driving his wagon.

...about Tiruin's scumminess, but the fact remains that if Toaster is town (and I think he is), and Book is town (and I'm almost certain he is), then Tiruin is the only plausible candidate for being the liar in the D2 shiftclaims...

Why do you regret the lynch of Toony anyway and why do you fall back on saying I'm a liar on the shiftclaims when you blocked me? I know I am blocked.

Also, did you just claim that one-shot name investigate thing just so we can all reveal our names for the scum here? NativeForeigner did not post his and you seem to be fine with it. Like knowing only mine would count?

I'm suspicious of his wincon. "Kill the incumbent, doesn't matter on the liberals." to paraphrase what he said. Doesn't that already mean third-party? Unless it's my inexperience with their wincon that's talking.


Bookthras: Do me a favor and spam-vote everyone you investigated, to be sure and to clear things up and check who really lies, including the 'dead' to make sure we have no incoming candidates. Then unvote later on and focus it on who you think is scum.

Spoiler: Bookthras, first I want to clear up a few things related to your post on me, unrelated to Mafia. (click to show/hide)

There is a tl;dr. Don't worry.

[This]

It's focused on the post above. The relevant parts are in the spoiler below.

...only reveals you as provincial... Not a sin onto itself, but don't blame others for it.

First, this. I take this as a personal insult, calling me provincial. That carries a bad gist in itself. I never blamed others for anything of the sort; did I flame all about politics and America or did I complain a bit about related flavor?

No.

What I don't like is when you compare what flavor a person has to certain historical figures.

What he was doing was trying to understand the set up of the game. Perfectly copacetic effort for a bastard. There is always an underlying puzzle, and regardless of alignment, an important part of playing a bastard game is to solve the puzzle. He tried that by linking roles to people. You may not recognize the people, but clearly GG does, and it's GG's thinking we're trying to unravel. Whether you wish to learn about Santorum or not is irrelevant; what's relevant is that Santorum is likely a conceptual base for one of the roles. That's neither my fault or yours, it's GG's, and part of the setting. Perfectly fine to try to figure it out.

Yes on understanding the set up, but it is very flawed. One thing is, there is a whole pool of Republicans to pick from, and specifics were called. I think you missed

[quote above]... To me, that's like casting a bad image on the person in general.

Now, to clarify: I do not want anyone alluding characteristics to real life people because it gives out a label on them. I'm not saying Conservatism or Liberalism is bad, per se, but that I just didn't like it. To say the least, I should've re-worded my request to indicate only McNoble based on how much fire it caused.

This post, to be specific:

My role is clearly built over Ron Paul. Who, being a glibertarian, lays down the crazy on economics like nobody's business, but likes his pot, doesn't mind gays too much and wants the secret police to stop from listening in on his phone calls.

Dariush is lying scum who needs to hang, so I'm guessing his role is conjured out of thin air.

I'm guessing that Bookthras is Mullah Ricky, based on the fact that Santorum is best known for being a religious extremist and weak on civil liberties, but appeals to blue-collar voters with a side order of economic populism.

Tiruin is either fakeclaiming scum or one of the Baggers. Which means Michelle Bachmann or Sarah Palin, since Baby Paul isn't in the race.

Toaster is probably Herman Cain, because he bowed out early and threw his support behind another candidate (I forget who), and was bland and milquetoast (for a rethug), like Toaster's issue claims.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that NativeForeigner is Stephen Colbert, based on nothing more than the fact that he's a media personality who had no opinion on the issues before he made up his fakeclaim.

Mii is probably the Grinch, but that's just a hunch.

Which means that we lost Bachmann and/or Palin and Mittens in the first round. If Pranz was telling the truth about having an inspect, he was probably the Bagger.

So my guess (and remember that this is tentative) is that we're down at least two townies from mislynches.

Everyone: How well does this check out with your role flavour?

And only this post.

I've seen much use of acronyms telling me to Google certain people up. Now I can say that you did mean well in trying to help me there, but now I really should've said that I recognize certain politicians (Obama is obvious) more than others. It just pains me to think that just because I've mentioned it, I take the fire.

Anyway, continuation on why saying that I'm provincial is the one of the non-profane ways you can insult me.

...Certainly there is at least one who isn't real (yet): The Dark Horse candidate (Native), as the RL race doesn't have one yet, but its purpose matches Native's stated flavour. Again, "Dark Horse Candidate" is a real thing in American politics. It's not a name, but it's relevant. It's not our fault if you are unfamiliar with the term.

Don't assume that just because I mess up, I don't know anything about politics. I never said anything about the above, nor did I blame anyone. I never said I'm unfamiliar with that term either, and I don't like the way you put words into my mouth! The Vice President of my country is one, just to point it out. How shouldn't I know that? No wait, don't answer that.

McNoble: Thanks for pointing that out but That was meant for Book. From what I guessed, he wanted America straight from the first page post. Awaiting his reply (though, this goes far off-topic on how that scumhunt was played. Strange though, how he answered your question.)

I answered it because you said "no flavour", to which I had to reply "hell yes, flavour." Plus I also used names and obscure terminology, didn't I? How many times should I mention Joseph McCarthy before I realise your tirade about "historical figures" was not addressed to me?

I did say "Yea to flavor!" BUT I never thought of the idea of real people being put into play. That was the only focus of my request and said request was based on the post of McNoble, that is what I wanted to state.

Looking at your meta, I can see you love flavor. I do, too, but if I have wronged you in giving the idea that I was being a hypocritical jerk, then forgive me, but I thought that I had conveyed my idea there.

Social> +Conservative
Economics > +Conservative

This is what I did as frontrunner during the Night. Made useless by the roleblock.
And for the PM: Religion to the Left. Not letting anyone touch that!

b) Damn it! "To the left" means "towards liberal"! "To the right" means "towards conservative"! This is again you not knowing shit about politics. It doesn't matter that you read it left to right, it matters what Left and Right mean in the real world of politics. Really, dude, keep up with the premise of the freakin' game!

It's not that I know shit about politics, it's that I don't know much shit about American Politics! Yes, epic fail in my words there, but you don't have to get all hyped up and start calling me an idiot! I can do that myself, thank you very much. Just because democracy is fairly known by many, it doesn't mean that conservatism and liberalism is also widely known in the area as it's meaning and essence is diluted with other issues. Prominent in America but forgive me if I caused you a migraine, eh?

Also, I've pointed out that talking about this would drift off-topic earlier.

Tl;dr: I dislike the way you called me out there. I dislike the way you put words into my mouth. I guess you misread my request as to mean pertaining to you, when I should've specified, failure was due to late-night skimming. I messed up in wording my request related to Real-Life people.

Spoiler: This is related (click to show/hide)

Tiruin, dude!

Yes, a vote on me because it seems that I'm trying to disrupt scumhunting via flavor. I should've restated my request in clearer terms. Which is cleared up above.

McNoble:

Based on this, I've got some hypotheses:
First that the ones who get inspects are the ones who are Arch-Conservative on the issue being inspected. If so, either Tiruin has the Social Inspect, or we lynched out that inspect D1. I find the latter more plausible.

I find this plausible, and your double-vote thing makes it moreso. I concur that Pranz probably had the Social inspect, which means Tiruin is the odd-one out, and probable 3rd party.

So just because my issue relations are different but in the highest, I'm already a third-party? Nice assumption there. Though this is far back in the day, it doesn't seem that you changed your mind.

Why did I say The Request? Another reason is I don't have a name that is linked to anyone in real life. I'm wondering if any of you people do, and I want answers here.

Everyone: Do you have a name said in flavor linked to any real-life person?

There is a Third-Party.
Um, cannot quote the Mod again. First page, OP. Under the "Why is this Mafia" thing. Confirmed.

You can quote the mod's posts on the thread. What you can't do is quote his PMs. But yes, there is at least one 3rd party. I thought that was obvious.

How come you didn't mention this earlier? There was more than one person, including me, that wondered on the existence of the third-party. McNoble provided witness to that in his post below the linked one above.

McNoble: That I'm not fakeclaiming scum.

One thing I think, you cannot win the frontrunner position twice in this Mafia. The Public Scrutiny must be the note as it would give an infinite set of +1 votes and an infinite NK-Immunity if anyone's alignment would be determined and then set as the constant frontrunner, leading to a loophole. And, yes. I still believe in flavor here. I guess finding loopholes will not work, the Mod has this locked down in bastardism. In a good way.

Mii: On your FoS (Which I want to inquire about. Why FoS when you can vote? Why are you afraid, if I may call it, of laying down votes?). I was asleep, I couldn't join that conversation even if I wanted to. Sleep cured my typographical errors. Sleep cured migraines. Sleep cures confusion.

Where is your scumhunting by the way?

NativeForeigner: Who are your top scumpicks, exclude me for any reason and why? Also, why aren't you scumhunting on your own? Leaving it up mostly to the cop and one-shot detective, Book and McNoble? Your statements have gone along their lines.

Also, I did shift Religion to be less Conservative as my day-shift BUT that was after I saw the plan made by Toaster. Then I saw what Mod GG said. Looks like it was stuck then, on Arch.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Anyway, I am not lying about my Archy-ness. If I was, then Bookthras would have a double vote on me based on all that red smeared on my name, coming from Day 2 to be exact.

Not if you had a Godfatherish role, since Book's role (as claimed, and mine works the same way, so I'm inclined to believe that) only gives him a double-vote on people he has investigated and found to be ideologically deviant.

Also, I won't lie about being all Arch-Conservative, seeing the variance in all the issues.

Yeah, sorry, I don't drink wine on Monday nights.

McNoble, why do you find that so unbelievable, and I want an explanation.

Because if you were ACon on all Issues, you would be the front-runner? And you aren't, so you aren't.

Unless you wish to postulate that Book made a fakeclaim, which is totally implausible based on the set of possible combinations that could give him more favourable point scores than the claim he did make.

I see you have a plausible alternative hypothesis further down, but this was my reasoning at the time I voted you.

Now, I didn't lie about the Day 2 shifts when they were moved to Conservative, as McNoble blocked me.

As an aside, I'm beginning to seriously regret polishing off Toony. I'm halfway tempted to go through D1 with a comb to see who was driving his wagon.

...about Tiruin's scumminess, but the fact remains that if Toaster is town (and I think he is), and Book is town (and I'm almost certain he is), then Tiruin is the only plausible candidate for being the liar in the D2 shiftclaims...

Why do you regret the lynch of Toony anyway

Because I read a couple of old games where Toony flipped town, and upon re-reading D1 I realised that his play looked an awful lot like Town!Toony.

and why do you fall back on saying I'm a liar on the shiftclaims when you blocked me?

Because I blocked you N2. You lied about your N1 shifts on D2. Which is before my block happened.

I know I am blocked.

Why did you not mention this in your first D2 post?

Also, did you just claim that one-shot name investigate thing just so we can all reveal our names for the scum here?

I did no such thing. I said that I was pretty sure I could catch you in a fakeclaim, because I was pretty sure that the correspondence to real candidates would be as strong as it was in my flavour, and you have given no indication of knowing enough about the Repug candidates to be able to cook up a convincing fakeclaim.

As it turned out, I was wrong and my roleflavour was more obvious than the rest. Oh, well. Win some, lose some.

I am, however, interested in why you'd think that any of the rolenames we've seen D3 would be of any interest to scum. The scum know who are not scum. They don't need the rolenames to figure that out.

NativeForeigner did not post his and you seem to be fine with it. Like knowing only mine would count?

Actually, he was the very first to claim.

I'm suspicious of his wincon. "Kill the incumbent, doesn't matter on the liberals." to paraphrase what he said. Doesn't that already mean third-party? Unless it's my inexperience with their wincon that's talking.

That's a good point. Doesn't make you any less scummy, though.

Bookthras: Do me a favor and spam-vote everyone you investigated, to be sure and to clear things up and check who really lies, including the 'dead' to make sure we have no incoming candidates. Then unvote later on and focus it on who you think is scum.

That's a good idea. Bookthras, you should do this. Probably not until the day starts, though.

Everyone: Do you have a name said in flavor linked to any real-life person?

Protip: If you want answers from everybody, don't bury the question in the middle of a spoiler addressed at a particular player.

And in answer to your question: Not explicitly, but it was pretty obvious.

McNoble: That I'm not fakeclaiming scum.

One thing I think, you cannot win the frontrunner position twice in this Mafia. The Public Scrutiny must be the note as it would give an infinite set of +1 votes and an infinite NK-Immunity if anyone's alignment would be determined and then set as the constant frontrunner, leading to a loophole. And, yes. I still believe in flavor here. I guess finding loopholes will not work, the Mod has this locked down in bastardism. In a good way.

That's... actually a surprisingly reasonable hypothesis. Unvote Tiruin pending clarification from the Mod: Is it possible to be front-runner two days in a row?