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[Tiruin]

I'm suspicious on that Rolefishing, but we're at Day 3 and with no loss in the candidate number, statement below. Why do you ask for specific names (Or their alias) though? (Yes, I'm seeing that as specific and related to the role).

Because op the names I know and have guessed (mine and Book's), they are so far unrelated to the role power. But I probably have a way to check its veracity.

May I guess, though, on how you know Book's name without any investigation on him before I give my own? From what I gather, you had a one-shot investigate on issues in Economics; a one-shot roleblock and nothing else. Either one of the given may be made a continuous action when made VP. Now you may have an investigate on the nickname of the person, which you choose to unveil. Anything I've missed?

Now heading to sleep. I won't be able to further answer any questions in a long time from now. (~14 or more hours if I'm unlucky)

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Wrong answer, Tiruin.

You're free to guess all you like, but the longer you wait with your claim, the more probable it is that you're cooking up a plausible-sounding fakeclaim with your scumbuddy.

[Mii]

Dariush: Why are you here?

Everyone: If someone resurrected him, why? And who? What would be the purpose, exactly, for either side? For the scum he would be a good distraction, if anything. To avert the attention a bit from themselves. But for town to bring back obvscum? I don't like that theory,since it doesn't even make sense. If his life is not the product of a town/scum res at all, then can his being here have something to do with his role? Perhaps we have a third party here (but then again, I don't see the point in their bringing him back, either, unless he may have some other pivotal role that said third party knows that we don't)?

-snip-

I never before heard this theory from you, unless I missed something. Feel free to start musing where we can hear.

But yes, it is an interesting concept you propose. Perhaps Native was brought in another way? It was planned from the beginning, it seems, him coming into the game a bit late (judging by his first post in-game before he was able to join the race). I think someone has the ability to bring people into the race, but I do not think Dariush's res(?) and Native's hop into the game are directly correlated.

The theory is above. Flavor is coinciding with how people come and go in game.

Why the blunt vote? If Dariush is going to post again, then I don't think it would make sense, judging by how he posts this game.

Flavour is doing what? I only voiced my opinion and shared my theories on the matter of how the hell Dariush came back into the game after we lynched him.

He is scum. I vote scum. Whether or not he is active, he has my vote.

He may not be able to die if he has his religion issue below moderate (or so he claims) but I still have my vote on him. To match his current invincibility, there must be someone (possibly yet another third party?) who is able to influence his religion issue enough to bring him above moderate so he can be lynched. Whoever knows anything pertaining to this, feel free to share. I don't like scum (obvscum, even) being alive and out of reach.

McNoble: Pardon? The roles and the names do not even seem to mirror each other in the slightest (which you even said yourself). How will finding Tiruin's name help?

Tiruin: Why are you evading the question?

[Urist McUselessNoble]

For the same reason knowing issue claims would help: Because rolenames and alignments might correlate.

And I'm pretty confident I can catch Tiruin if he fakeclaims his rolename.

[GlyphGryph]

Generally, Left = Liberal, Right = Conservative.

Easier just to say shift conservative or shift liberal really.

Orrr... Conservitate and Liberalize!

I probably should have put OP list in reverse order, truth be told.

[Bookthras]

Tiruin, dude!

[The whole post concerning flavor]

You got that wrong. I was specifically pointing out on the characters, not flavor in general. First of all, whoever said the place Politibastard takes in is America? But Mod GlyphGryph never said it is in America.

What a ridiculous point. Yes, of course it's America (or rather, a fictitious America-like country, like the EagleLand McNoble linked you to). Not my doing. See:

and now they were going to battle out it to become the Republican Presidential Nominee.
No, it wasn't just the islamofascist comminazi president and his stooges in congress.
The problem was that some among their number were traitors - political terrorists. RHINOs.

Republican? Comminazi President? Aren't we looking for RINOs? Primaries, debates and straw polls?

The fact that you don't recognise the setting and names only reveals you as provincial. Not a sin onto itself, but don't blame others for it.

What I don't like is when you compare what flavor a person has to certain historical figures.

What he was doing was trying to understand the set up of the game. Perfectly copacetic effort for a bastard. There is always an underlying puzzle, and regardless of alignment, an important part of playing a bastard game is to solve the puzzle. He tried that by linking roles to people. You may not recognize the people, but clearly GG does, and it's GG's thinking we're trying to unravel. Whether you wish to learn about Santorum or not is irrelevant; what's relevant is that Santorum is likely a conceptual base for one of the roles. That's neither my fault or yours, it's GG's, and part of the setting. Perfectly fine to try to figure it out.

I still think his idea of at least some roles being based on people is sound. It doesn't mean that's all of them, or that it matters to their alignment. Certainly there is at least one who isn't real (yet): The Dark Horse candidate (Native), as the RL race doesn't have one yet, but its purpose matches Native's stated flavour. Again, "Dark Horse Candidate" is a real thing in American politics. It's not a name, but it's relevant. It's not our fault if you are unfamiliar with the term.

McNoble: Thanks for pointing that out but That was meant for Book. From what I guessed, he wanted America straight from the first page post. Awaiting his reply (though, this goes far off-topic on how that scumhunt was played. Strange though, how he answered your question.)

I answered it because you said "no flavour", to which I had to reply "hell yes, flavour." Plus I also used names and obscure terminology, didn't I? How many times should I mention Joseph McCarthy before I realise your tirade about "historical figures" was not addressed to me?

There is a Third-Party.
Um, cannot quote the Mod again. First page, OP. Under the "Why is this Mafia" thing. Confirmed.

You can quote the mod's posts on the thread. What you can't do is quote his PMs. But yes, there is at least one 3rd party. I thought that was obvious.

Social> +Conservative
Economics > +Conservative

This is what I did as frontrunner during the Night. Made useless by the roleblock.
And for the PM: Religion to the Left. Not letting anyone touch that!

a) You said "made useless by the roleblock" now but you didn't say you were blocked when you claimed them. That makes you scummy.
b) Damn it! "To the left" means "towards liberal"! "To the right" means "towards conservative"! This is again you not knowing shit about politics. It doesn't matter that you read it left to right, it matters what Left and Right mean in the real world of politics. Really, dude, keep up with the premise of the freakin' game!

Incidentally, Tiruin, what's your role name? Not its powers, just the two sobriquets naming it.

Tiruin: I also want an answer to this question. As to why you should answer it, well, claims are common by D3, but more importantly: if you don't answer it, you are going to die. You'll probably die even if you do, but if you have interest in helping town, the way to do it is to answer this.


McNoble:

I have never heard of a vigkill failing to go through just because the vig was offed by the mafia.

True. OK, then I don't need to be front runner, but perhaps some coordination would be of use? Or should we just try to move it towards ourselves? And are we OK with the notion of just lynching one and shooting the other?

But if you didn't lie about your issue shift during N1, then it means that either Toaster lied about one of his but not the other, or he didn't shift at all N1, or that both Native and Mii lied and shifted issues to the left, or that Toaster only shifted one issue but claimed to have shifted two, and either Native or Mii lied and shifted an issue to the left.

None of which is remotely plausible.
Hence, colour me confused.

Maybe we should look at this closer...


PPE: Moderator: Please answer my earlier question:

Which reminds me: Moderator: do we have a time limit on sending you the day-changes on issues? If we haven't by the time the next vote count is posted, we can still send them?

[GlyphGryph]

You can send them whenever, and you'll see the changes when I get around to it.

No one has successfully changed anything yet, though.

[NativeForeigner]

-snip-

I don't know how you see this as scummy, I shifted those at night, when everyone else does shift.

Also, I've noticed that flavor does have a connection to people. On the Second day, you entered with flavor. (The flavor on RL people and it's connection to us in Mafia is described below.)

You misunderstand, I thought you were day-shifting those issues, which I would have viewed as scummy this early.

I'm not saying Flavor isn't important, I was asking if you had anything other than flavor. Don't dodge the question.

Also, I didn't announce that I was coming in because the whole point of it was to be a surprise. That would have been kind of ruined if I had pointed out right there that I was the Black Horse, don'tcha think? Of course I was interested in joining, but the mod wanted to keep it a secret. Otherwise, what's the point of a *secret* tenth player?

So now you're claiming you were roleblocked. Why didn't you say anything earlier?

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Re: Third parties: There was one or more third parties at the start of D1. Whether any remain in the game... remains to be seen. We did lynch three chaps D1, and I'm only prepared to lay odds on one of them being a townie based on the new information that came to light during D2.

I'll be busy for the next 16-20 hours, but after that I'm gonna spend the rest of the day going after third parties, because I have plenty enough on Tiruin and Dariush Dariush that I feel completely comfortable with just letting my votes sit there until and unless they die or provide me with some really damn compelling reasons why I should move them.

Social> +Conservative
Economics > +Conservative

This is what I did as frontrunner during the Night. Made useless by the roleblock.
And for the PM: Religion to the Left. Not letting anyone touch that!

a) You said "made useless by the roleblock" now but you didn't say you were blocked when you claimed them. That makes you scummy.

Not a valid inference. Between the two relevant posts, I had claimed a roleblock which explicitly nullifies his issue shifts.

However it is a valid inference to point out that either Tiruin didn't know that he'd been blocked (most probable), in which case Dariush is scummy for claiming that he was roleblocked on issue shifts when one is not informed of this fact. Or one is, in fact, informed of one being RB'ed, in which case Tiruin is a scummy liar.

Right now I'm going with Dariush being the scummier liar between the two.

b) Damn it! "To the left" means "towards liberal"! "To the right" means "towards conservative"! This is again you not knowing shit about politics. It doesn't matter that you read it left to right, it matters what Left and Right mean in the real world of politics. Really, dude, keep up with the premise of the freakin' game!

OK, OK, watch your blood pressure here. That's not the least credible mistake Tiruin has claimed in this game.

I have never heard of a vigkill failing to go through just because the vig was offed by the mafia.

True. OK, then I don't need to be front runner, but perhaps some coordination would be of use? Or should we just try to move it towards ourselves?

Well, I might as well bow out of the frontrunner race, because there's no remotely plausible way I can get above two points. My scum reads on your and Toaster are about equally non-existent at this point, and your investigation ability is the more useful of the known abilities. So unless Toaster feels like claiming an awesome role, I say we push Bookthras as front-runner. Do you feel like coordinating issue shifts, or shall I do it when I get home tomorrow, before I start re-reading with an eye towards third parties?

And are we OK with the notion of just lynching one and shooting the other?

Unless Tiruin gives us some really damn good reason not to, yes. (Dariush I consider confirmed scum by now, so that he has to be made to go away should go without saying.)

But if you didn't lie about your issue shift during N1, then it means that either Toaster lied about one of his but not the other, or he didn't shift at all N1, or that both Native and Mii lied and shifted issues to the left, or that Toaster only shifted one issue but claimed to have shifted two, and either Native or Mii lied and shifted an issue to the left.

None of which is remotely plausible.
Hence, colour me confused.

Maybe we should look at this closer...

I intend to do so, but I don't have the time until tomorrow.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

EBWOP: But the fact that I intend to go after third parties and re-examine the D2 issue shift claims doesn't mean it wouldn't also be productive for everyone else to stop tunneling the obvscum and start looking for third parties and other bastardry.

[Bookthras]

However it is a valid inference to point out that either Tiruin didn't know that he'd been blocked (most probable), in which case Dariush is scummy for claiming that he was roleblocked on issue shifts when one is not informed of this fact. Or one is, in fact, informed of one being RB'ed, in which case Tiruin is a scummy liar.

I automatically assumed people would be informed if they were blocked, as we had someone claimed to be blocked before. But now I that remember it was Dariush, it could have been a lie. We can, however, try this:

Moderator: is a victim of a roleblock aware that his night actions were blocked?

So unless Toaster feels like claiming an awesome role, I say we push Bookthras as front-runner. Do you feel like coordinating issue shifts, or shall I do it when I get home tomorrow, before I start re-reading with an eye towards third parties?

I'm lazy about coordination and such. I'd prefer if someone else volunteers to do it.

[Urist McUselessNoble]

I wasn't informed of whether my RB had succeeded or not. Not that that necessarily means the target wasn't informed.

[Toaster]

Are we mass-claiming?  If so, I do have something I haven't claimed yet.  It may be of interest (though not directly indicative of scum.)

[GlyphGryph]

Moderator: is a victim of a roleblock aware that his night actions were blocked?

That's a tough question. I certainly wouldn't consider it a given. I probably SHOULD inform people when they are blocked. And I usually do if they ask. But damn, I'm just a forgetful host, I certainly wouldn't guarantee anything one way or the other!

Also, I should specify: I would never say they were actually BLOCKED - simply whether or not their actions succeeded. And then only really if they had a reasonable reason to know whether or not that was the case.

Man, I should really develop a specific policy on this...

[Urist McUselessNoble]

Toaster: I don't think we're mass-claiming per se. It's just that Book and I have pretty much claimed, and we can only really plan based on what is known. So if you feel that what you're holding back is important enough to warrant trying to get you made front-runner (which is the plan we're cooking up at the moment), sure. If not, I don't see how claiming it before you otherwise would will help the town.

What I would like us to mass-claim is role names, as distinct from role powers. But I want to see Tiruin's first, because he's least likely to be able to cook up a convincing fakeclaim without help.