So, for now I'm voting Leafsnail, on the grounds his Xeno claim right now stinks to high heaven. Imiknorris' point that betraying Leafsnail would out two scum for no reason seems legit; I can't see any reason he would agree to cooperate with the Xeno then betray him, putting at least three dopps out of commission.
This is the exact reason I accepted the deal - I couldn't see any reason for them to betray me, putting 1 dopp out of commission (not sure where 3 comes from - Urist I was out anyway. He's back now but Dariush is gone, so if Urist I really were exposing himself they'd be at -1 dopp). However, it would seem that they have some role (such as vig) that means they don't care so much about being outed anymore. Indeed, if this were the case, all the better if the town's blocks and such are targetted at the one outed dopp rather than spread around with a risk of hitting the crucial one.
Hm. Well, I can't argue with the point that, if they DID trick you, it implies they have more power than they need from you. I got the three scum because, if Imiknorris is lying, you've outed him, Dariush (who would return after your death), and Shakerag as dopps (since he would be lying to corroborate Imiknorris' backstab). All three would be removed in short order as a result, crippling the scum team. It seems insanely dangerous for the scum to try, though (but "it's a bad idea if you're scum" is prime grade WIFOM, so it's not a valid argument).
That begs the question of why they'd bother working a deal with you in the first place if they didn't need you. I don't expect you to give me an answer to that, but it makes your claim seem flimsy anyway. If you were useless enough to betray this quickly, why cooperate with you at all?
Leafsnail: Why did you abduct Dariush last night? I understand the whole having someone vouch for you, but why Dariush? If Imiknorris is scum, he could have provided you with ANY of the scum team members PPE: Actually, I forgot about the fact we can PM (just read Jim's post). Now this decision really stinks. The Dariush abduction makes more sense from the point of Imiknorris being a townie groping blindly for an obv-scum/alien target.
Dariush wasn't to be the one vouching for me. He was just the one who would be swapped for Urist I so that Urist I could vouch for me. He could have given me any other scumteam member... but why would he give me anyone other than the guy who's already been lynched once and is pretty likely to be lynched again on the next day?
As for why swap rather than just pm... well, compare the situations:
- I randomly call up Dariush (Urist I didn't want to feed me the names of any other scumteam members - understandable) asking for his cooperation, with no proof of my role or what I want. Also I tell him I'm not gonna release his teammate and he's gonna die again tomorrow, lol. Note that this deal really is pretty raw for Urist I - heck, it's not even a deal really, just me kindof hoping that the doppelgangers will work with me for no reason and with no backing.
- Urist I, confirmed to be on the same team as his buddies, explains the plan to them. Urist I is in a far better position than Dariush, and is more likely to survive. I have proved that I am prepared to work with the doppelgangers, and as you say, they don't have any real reason to betray me (except apparently their team is overpowered enough that they do).
It's plain that the second situation would lead to a far greater chance of success in the deal. Yes?
Also, if Urist I's imaginary Xeno was looking for an alien, he managed to pick the one person in the entire game who was publically confirmed not to be an alien.
This seems contradictory. Imiknorris wants to cooperate with you, and agrees to a deal, but refuses to name his scum partners or give you anything to help seal said deal?
You could have PMed anyone, even Dariush, with details from Imiknorris to confirm you were legit (like quoting a numbered line from scumchat that you couldn't know without talking to someone from scumchat). Going through this whole rigmarole instead of a few sneaky PMs seems asinine and convoluted, not to mention ridiculously dangerous since the swap and cover story has to pass muster with the entire town watching.
Actually, Imiknorris' "imaginary" Xeno's move makes more sense from his "I'm town" perspective, honestly. He takes Town Imiknorris, who doesn't know who anyone is for certain. They guess "Dariush is acting scummy and has alien/mad scientist tech, that's a good shot he's either a dopp or alien", and Xeno needs both to win so he snags him hoping for the best (because he wouldn't JUST be looking for an alien, but you'd remember that if you were a Xeno, right?). While this scenario isn't proof Imiknorris is being honest, it IS proof that his story isn't the ridiculous claim you're making it out to be.
McArathos:
Imiknorris: Why don't you want the real Xeno claiming? It would corroborate your story.
Because he doesn't want to claim at the moment, as it would put a target on his back for the dopps tonight to foil Irony's abduction. I agree with him because it would be better to wait until the dopps can't gain anything from killing him (if he waited until tomorrow to claim he could confirm Irony as a dopp, thus removing their incentive to get him back).
So, are you guys planning to have the Xeno claim tomorrow, or just deciding not to today? The reasoning makes sense, at least.