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[GlyphGryph]

Okay, y'all, I'm ready to go. And you better fucking show up considering what I just passed on to work on this tonight.

Where are we meeting, and how?
.

[Bluerobin]

Haha I'm around. Where are we meeting?

[Un67]

This is really interesting and I really want to help, unfortunately I both lack the ability to code and any experience at all with Pokemon games.

But I can make terrible terrible sprites!  Here's a plump helmet Pokemon thingy...



... I should probably stay out of this 

[GlyphGryph]

I've set up a room on irc.newnet.net called #Bay12Dwarfomons if anyone wants to pop in there. Other suggestions welcome

[USEC_OFFICER]

I have no artistic talent whatsoever, but once I get finished with finals and such I think I'll start learning how to working with the coding and such for the ROM.

Excellent, glad to have you aboard!

This is really interesting and I really want to help, unfortunately I both lack the ability to code and any experience at all with Pokemon games.

Don't worry, I didn't either, but with all the tools available, ROM hacking is as simple as 1 2 3.

But I can make terrible terrible sprites!  Here's a plump helmet Pokemon thingy...



... I should probably stay out of this 

Heh. I doubt I could make anything better. If you do want to submit sprites just remember that the background has to be a different colour than what is used in the sprite.

I've set up a room on irc.newnet.net called #Bay12Dwarfomons if anyone wants to pop in there. Other suggestions welcome

Joining now.

[GlyphGryph]

Just as a note, we CANNOT merge the binary rom file. If you want to actually edit the ROM, make sure to visit the IRC and that no one else is working on it.

[GlyphGryph]

Best idea: Reverse Nuzlocke. You are, literally, killing every pokemon you defeat.

[monk12]

As is, it could work, but the idea of having dragon on carp and not water... is rather odd. And a unicorn fighting type, which insinuates it uses martial arts. Hmmn.

I think that's more than good enough. And I like grass/Steel better for Unicron than fighting/steel.

I still think we need a magma elephant at some point, but there's no reason we can't have two elephants! Heck, you can even include in the description of Boatborn that it was born from the death of a "Geophant".

(Although I'm still not really sure why the starters have to be rock/paper/scissors. We don't need to follow the stupider rules if we don't want to!)

Sounds good.

Also, I played around with the starter types a bit and Fire/Ghost, Water/Dark, Grass/Steel works for rock-paper-scissors type advantages if that's more thematically relevant. The only problem is Grass/Steel is resistant to Ghost (but isn't super effective against Fire or Ghost, so it's a one-way advantage), although it's still vulnerable to Fire. Very vulnerable. Might be enough of an offset?

Yeesh, go work a dinky little five hour shift and this thread explodes for five pages...

The big problem here is Water/Dark having the effectiveness of Crawdaunt, who resists Steel. This puts the Grass/Steel starter at a disadvantage because half his moves aren't effective against the Water/Dark guy, and it also means that the Water/Dark starter is the only one with 2x advantage on BOTH of his types vs his weaker number. In short, this makes Water/Dark easy mode, Grass/Steel medium and Fire/Ghost hard.

The reason I had Dragon on the Carp instead of Water was because Water gave a big advantage against Unicron as well as Boatmurder. Dragon gives the resistance to Fire without also gaining an advantage against Steel. I figured it was justified what with that old saw about Carps becoming Dragons when they get powerful enough. What's a Dark Dragon other than a massive zombie Carp?

Fighting on Unicron instead of Grass was to give a type advantage against the Dark aspect of Megacarp, especially since the loss of Water on Megacarp made Grass unnecessary. And the Steel gives weakness to Boatmurder (and is incidentally really cool.) I figured it was justified what with the legendary aggressiveness and lust for blood of the DF Unicorn. The other option there to accomplish the same end would be Ice/Steel, but I figured that made less sense.

It was the best I could do to have three starters balanced against one another that had Boatborn involve Fire, Megacarp involve Dark and Unicron involve Steel. As Bluerobin said, the starters are normally rock-paper-scissors to ensure your Rival has some kind of advantage over you, because there is no way he'll be as smart as you. That said, those type combination are all kindof silly powerful with a ton of resistances each, so if we don't go with a trio for the starters in favor of an Eevee-type starter then these guys might be more appropriate as Legendaries.

Although if we're going with an Eevee-like starter, what would it be? It'd be cool if we could get something that can believably morph into any of the elements- "DwarfMon" maybe? (terrible name is terrible.) I could definitely see a Ghost/Dark/Steel thing there to represent how most forts end, but I don't know.

[Furtuka]

heres the sprite for the first crundle stage

[GlyphGryph]

Here's the status of our current Starter set:
(See full details here: https://github.com/GlyphGryph/Bay12Pokemon/wiki/Dwarfomon)

    Boatmurdered family : Fire/Ghost. Has the appearance of a ghostly elephant wreathed in flames. As Fire/Ghost it would have the type effectiveness of Litwick, making it weak to Dark, but resist Steel and unaffected by Fighting
        Boatborn: (Fire/Ghost) : (Vengeful Spirit) :Said to be the spirit of a Magaphant that refuses to die.
        Boatforged: (Fire/Ghost) : (Vengeful Spirit) : Longing for a life it can never have, it lashes out in pain and fury, but refuses to give in. It has defied even death, and holds in contempt those who cannot do the same.
        Boatmurdered: (Fire/Ghost) : (Vengeful Spirit) : YOU CANNOT RUN / YOU CANNOT HIDE / AND IF YOU FIGHT BACK / YOU WILL DIE

    Uncarp family- Water/Dark. A zombie Carp that grows into an enormous Skeletal Carp. As Dragon/Dark it would have the type effectiveness of Deino, making it weak to Fighting, resistant to Ghost and Fire, and damaged normally Steel.
        Uncarp: (Water/Dark) : (Zombie Fish) : It is known to come onto land at night to seek out unsuspecting dwarves, drag them to the water, and hold them down until they drown.
        Skelfish: (Water/Dark) : (Skeletal Fish) : Looking in many ways like a large skeletal barracuda, the Skelfish feels no pain and no remorse. It's razor sharp teeth can shred a dwarves flesh in seconds. It cares only for itself.
        Urwhal: (Water/Dark) : (Skeletal Whale) : An enormous skeletal fish with tusks and a large horn jutting from it's head. Those who see an Urwhal at sea are expected to sink their own ship rather than return to port, for it only shows itself to its chosen prey, and has been known to follow ships home and devastate the ports where they dock.

    Unicron family
        Perlihorn Normal : An adorable unicorn pony, it's voice is said to sound as sweet as a bell.
        Unicron Grass/Steel: An adult perlihorn, the unicron's horn and hooves are sharp as steel, and it has a special connection with the magics of nature.
        Grass/Psychic: A Unicron that has become incredibly attuned with its magical nature. (Evolves during day or something)
        Steel/Fighting: A Unicron that has dedicated itself to physical combat. (Evolves during night or something)

[GlyphGryph]

In addition to just type weaknesses, we've been thinking about stats and move sets.

Perlihorn is the weakest, at first, and starts out literally unable to beat Boatborn in a fight. However, it has two very powerful final evolutions and the most versatility, but its mostly focused around dealing lots of damage with either high regular or special attack.
Boatborn is focused around doing damage and preventing the enemy from escaping or killing it with moves like Scary Face, Fire Whirl, attacks that cause flinching, and Destiny Bond.
Uncarp is good balance between attack and better defense with some powerful moves and the ability to regain health with Recover, and with moves like Roar it is a good counter to Boatborn.

[Bluerobin]

Yeah, somewhere along the way rock-paper-scissors became less type-based and more conceptual.

Preliminary moveset for the Boatmurdered family:

Code: [Select]

Elephant  (Fire/Ghost) Evo at 16 and 36


Tackle 1
Leer 1
Astonish 6
Ember 8
Will-o-wisp 11
Destiny Bond 14
Confuse Ray 19 20
Fire Spin 24 26
Stomp 29 32
Scary Face 35 37 38
Curse 41 44 46
Shadow Punch 47 51 54
Overheat 55 60 64With the third and fourth columns being for forged and murdered, respectively. Not 100% sure of the order of them... Fire spin and Scary face one after another when they do similar things feel weird, for instance. I'm still getting the hang of it. Added Stomp for more flinching! That spaced things out pretty well too. Shadow Punch might be a bit underpowered, but we can swap it out if that's the case.

[monk12]

Yeah, somewhere along the way rock-paper-scissors became less type-based and more conceptual.

Preliminary moveset for the Boatmurdered family:

Code: [Select]

Elephant  (Fire/Ghost) Evo at 16 and 36


Tackle 1
Leer 1
Astonish 6
Ember 8
Will-o-wisp 11
Destiny Bond 14
Confuse Ray 19 20
Fire Spin 24 26
Stomp 29 32
Scary Face 35 37 38
Curse 41 44 46
Shadow Punch 47 51 54
Overheat 55 60 64With the third and fourth columns being for forged and murdered, respectively. Not 100% sure of the order of them... Fire spin and Scary face one after another when they do similar things feel weird, for instance. I'm still getting the hang of it. Added Stomp for more flinching! That spaced things out pretty well too. Shadow Punch might be a bit underpowered, but we can swap it out if that's the case.

The things that jump out at me there are that Will-o-Wisp is kinda unexciting on its own (especially after learning Ember,) and Destiny Bond being learned at a really low level (most Pokemon that learn it do so in 30's-40's, exception being Wynaut.) Maybe swap it with Curse? Hex might be a good mid-level addition, since it makes Will-o-Wisp useful later on and would fit around Confuse Ray's position (say Hex 17 Confuse Ray 20 Fire Spin 24?) while filling that stretch between 8-24 without a damage-dealing move.

If Destiny Bond stays where it is, I wouldn't sub in Hex, but that leaves Will-o-Wisp being rather redundant after Ember. I like Stomp in between Fire Spin and Scary Face, that was a good move there. I agree that Shadow Punch is a bit underwhelming at that high level, but thematically I think it is the most appropriate. If we get to the point where we feel we can define our own moves, that's where I would substitute a Signature Move for the family.

@GlyphGryph The Uncarp summary is still reading for Dragon/Dark instead of Water/Dark- replace it with "Water/Dark having the effectiveness of Crawdaunt, making it weak to Grass and Fighting, resist Steel, Fire, and Ghost and be unaffected by Psychic." You may also want to amend Boatmurder's blurb to mention his weakness to Water and resistance to Grass.

And I hesitate to say it, but conceptually having Unicron's final stage be based on happiness makes sense- happy go lucky unicorns becoming elf-loving nature freaks while angry unicorns start stabbing everything. I hesitate because I'm not a big fan of the happiness mechanic, since I don't like having stuff like that be based on hidden stats. Time of Day or Elemental Stone might be a better route there.

Anywho, I'm glad this is shaping up so well! You guys are awesome.

[Furtuka]

odd. For some reason when I try to access the newnet chat when I get to the page the command buttons pop up but not the chatscreen

[GlyphGryph]

What are you trying to access it with?

And thanks for your comments, monk! Thats some good stuff.  God knows I have no grasp of how all this stuff fits together.

As far as family summaries, I just copy-pasted from the wiki and haven't rewritten them yet. I'll take your info into account when I do about... now.

We were actually considering basing the final form on happiness, but who knows. We don't even have a name for those two yet.