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[ansontan2000]

EBWODP: I meant to say non-RVS questions after Mormota attacked you.

[Halmie]

Ok guys I live in Australia, got up not that long ago. I'll respond to the last few pages when I can next get on.

[Dariush]

I straight copy-pasted his original question. I knew that he'd know that I was joking, and indeed, he knew that I wasn't expecting a response. Also, I'd suggest lightening up on the insults, you brain-dead moron (fair's fair). Making a joke won't get me lynched in a game that has even remotely intelligent people.

1) In a game you will be called a fucking bucket of crapsucking shit from hell and nobody will consider it a reason to overreact.
2) An out of place joke will get you lynched. People will see a player who can jest and laugh in the middle of a game as scum, since only scum can ever relax during the game.

When I was mafia last game, our IC told us not to kill an IC N1, because 1, that would ruin the purpose of the BM if the IC couldn't lead by example and 2, He's most likely to receive protection.

And how does this mean that you should protect people randomly?

Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.

No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.

[Fanofgaming]

1) In a game you will be called a fucking bucket of crapsucking shit from hell and nobody will consider it a reason to overreact.
2) An out of place joke will get you lynched. People will see a player who can jest and laugh in the middle of a game as scum, since only scum can ever relax during the game.

Let me paraphrase what you just said.
1) "I'm going to be a jackass and you're going to like it. ACCEPT MY ADVICE, YOU PIECE OF SHIT!"
2) "If people are calm, lynch them because this is SRS BZNESS. No matter how town they look, people who are funny must die!!"

Is there a place where we can vote on the best ICs on this forum? Because I know exactly who I wouldn't vote for. Honestly, do you even believe the crap that you're trying to spoon-feed me?

[Jim Groovester]

There's always one newbie who thinks he's hot shit straight out of the gate. This game, it's you.

Every single one's come around eventually. How long will it take for you? I hope for the sake of your ego it doesn't take too long. It would be terrible if whenever you looked back to your first game you remembered what a bullheaded dickbag you were for the whole thing, and how 100% justified Dariush and I were to bash mafia lessons into your head with no concern for your opinion at the time.

Is there a place where we can vote on the best ICs on this forum? Because I know exactly who I wouldn't vote for. Honestly, do you even believe the crap that you're trying to spoon-feed me?

No, there isn't. If you have complaints, bring them up at the end of the game. Despite our manner in game we are very receptive to feedback about the whole Beginner's Mafia process, since we want to ensure it's as easy a transition as possible to go from your first game to games on the rest of the forum.

Okay, I can see the logic there. It's very important for me to convince people that Andrew is acting scummy because -- oh, wait. Most of the players have already acknowledged that Andrew is acting scummy. Do you really expect me to spend an hour compiling quotes and responses just to satisfy you? You wouldn't vote for him even if I did because that would be too easy.

How about this, jackass: It doesn't mean shit if a bunch of new players thinks your case is good, because what the hell do they know?

If you want to really know how good you are, how about you make a case so good that I become dead quiet, because you know I only speak up when there's something wrong.

The case.

Eh, Andrew425 is just bad. It's not a crime to be terrible at a game, and that's the whole point he's here.

This is also bullshit. As I said before, a forced claim of indifference. I don't buy it for a second. Even if he were town, I strongly doubt he'd be so 'meh' about being lynched.

Eh, attitudes like this are pretty typical. He's also played in Beginner's Mafias before, so he's got a thicker skin about this sort of thing, and he's learned the lesson about how lynches are supposed to be helpful in the scumhunt.

Generally, if somebody is going to be lynched, then they should present their cases as best as possible, so that they can be looked at after he flips.

I might be mistaken, but isn't prodding lurkers a minor scumtell? I seem to recall that coming up in the last BM.

Ehhhh, not really. If that's all they were doing and they weren't following up at all, it would be scummy, but that's not exclusive to prodding lurkers.

Also, what's your opinion of Nilum doing the same thing?

Jim: The roles people are playing may influence their decisions. By asking them what roles they would like to play, it may be what they are playing in the first place.

And how are you supposed to know when somebody's favorite role is their actual role?

As I mentioned before, my favorite role is Your Mother. If Your Mother was a valid role in this setup, you can't assume that just because it's my favorite role that it's the role I have.

It's not a question that will lead you anywhere useful, so why did you ask it?

By active lurker I mean he's not a lurker, but he is posting things without any substance. He is only answering questions driven to him by Mormota. If you'll have noticed, my vote was on him since the very beginning.

If he's got no substance to his posts, show it.

Andrew: Why is it you're only answering questions from Mormota? Why is it, that you're not actually asking questions to people in return? You're not scumhunting at all; you're just answering questions.

This really looks like a question to make you look active, instead of a question to find out if Andrew425 is scum.

I'mma have to unvote Fanofgaming, ansontan2000.

Ansontan You haven't contributed anything to the discussion, content to sit at the back and try to snipe. You're being a lurker.

If you've got an accusation, you better have evidence.

You've voted but you haven't done a lot in the attacking department. Show me a case.

[Fanofgaming]

If you want to really know how good you are, how about you make a case so good that I become dead quiet, because you know I only speak up when there's something wrong.

No offense, but I am thoroughly convinced that no matter how good a case is in a BM game, you're going to find something wrong with it because that's why you're here in the first place.

The case.

Eh, Andrew425 is just bad. It's not a crime to be terrible at a game, and that's the whole point he's here.

Well, I guess my case must have been at least decent if all you have to say about it is that Andrew is bad. I'd have an easier time believing it, too, if he hadn't been in the previous BM.

Also, what's your opinion of Nilum doing the same thing?

To be honest, I hadn't noticed. I was pretty dedicated to dealing with Andrew at the time. If it's not really a scumtell, though, I guess it doesn't much matter, does it?

Anyway, believe it or not, I actually do value your advice, Jim. I still think Dariush is feeding me bullshit, though. Probably not on purpose. Considering the fact that you haven't actually mentioned anything to me about the advice that he's been giving me, I'm going to assume that I'm at least partially correct there.

[Jim Groovester]

Well, I guess my case must have been at least decent if all you have to say about it is that Andrew is bad. I'd have an easier time believing it, too, if he hadn't been in the previous BM.

You can build a case just fine, it's the content of it that's sketchy. You don't have enough knowledge about what does and does not make somebody scum to be an effective player just yet, though you're on your way there.

So maybe when people try to fill you in on this sort of thing, you should try being more receptive.

Also, what's your opinion of Nilum doing the same thing?

To be honest, I hadn't noticed. I was pretty dedicated to dealing with Andrew at the time. If it's not really a scumtell, though, I guess it doesn't much matter, does it?

It does if you're giving one player crap for it instead of multiple players. If you're giving only one player crap for it when there are other players doing the same thing, then you're arbitrarily grilling people for scumtells, which makes it look like you're more interested in finding any lynch than finding and lynching scum. This is scummy.

You also haven't answered my question. Sure, you missed it. I can believe that. Now that I've pointed it out to you, what do you make of it?

Anyway, believe it or not, I actually do value your advice, Jim. I still think Dariush is feeding me bullshit, though. Probably not on purpose. Considering the fact that you haven't actually mentioned anything to me about the advice that he's been giving me, I'm going to assume that I'm at least partially correct there.

Don't assume anything.

Dariush knows how to play the game and you should listen to his advice. Quit giving him shit for doing his job.

[Fanofgaming]

So maybe when people try to fill you in on this sort of thing, you should try being more receptive.

I'm more receptive to it than you might think. I'm just also a massive dick much of the time. To be fair, I was acting quite civil until Dariush started to directly insult me.

It does if you're giving one player crap for it instead of multiple players. If you're giving only one player crap for it when there are other players doing the same thing, then you're arbitrarily grilling people for scumtells, which makes it look like you're more interested in finding any lynch than finding and lynching scum. This is scummy.

You also haven't answered my question. Sure, you missed it. I can believe that. Now that I've pointed it out to you, what do you make of it?

Go look back at my post. I wasn't giving Andrew crap for it. I wouldn't have even noticed if he hadn't posted that right as I was about to post my case on him (it was a PEdit). And how exactly does "I'm not sure if it's a scumtell, but..." qualify as giving him crap for it? I was legitimately asking. And now that you've pointed it out to me that Nilum has also been doing it? It still shouldn't matter that he did it, if it's not scummy in the first place. What else am I supposed to think, what with you just now telling me that it's not really a scumtell? If you're asking if I think Nilum is acting scummy or not, how can I tell? Hasn't he only posted like, five times in this entire thread? I mean, I guess those five or so posts were fairly solid, but it's still not much to go on.

[Dariush]

1) In a game you will be called a fucking bucket of crapsucking shit from hell and nobody will consider it a reason to overreact.
2) An out of place joke will get you lynched. People will see a player who can jest and laugh in the middle of a game as scum, since only scum can ever relax during the game.

Let me paraphrase what you just said.
1) "I'm going to be a jackass and you're going to like it. ACCEPT MY ADVICE, YOU PIECE OF SHIT!"
2) "If people are calm, lynch them because this is SRS BZNESS. No matter how town they look, people who are funny must die!!"

Is there a place where we can vote on the best ICs on this forum? Because I know exactly who I wouldn't vote for. Honestly, do you even believe the crap that you're trying to spoon-feed me?

*sigh* You don't really get this, do you? If everyone treats you like a fluffy bunny, you will crack your skull in the first serious game, after which you'll either whine for a while and ragequit or rescrew your head the correct side up. What I'm trying to do is to cut out the middleman. Judging by your reaction, you belong to the first type.

[Mormota]

I see you aren't getting the connection, saying that you will lie to us in the future if you're in danger means that you are willing to lie. Only scum need to lie, thus you're saying that you're scum. No getting around it.

Yes I am damn well willing to lie if I know that gives us a better chance to win.

Mormota

What would I need excuses for?

For saying something scummy. I was willing to write it off to being a new player, since we are in Beginners Mafia, but since you've proven that you've played multiple times before you have no excuses.

I'm not going to give excuses. Take what I say at face value.

Mormota

I explained my reasoning behind why I would fakeclaim as town, and when

Explaining your reasons for being scummy doesn't make you less scummy.

Let me surprise you: Mafia is a game of pure, unadulterated logic. You found what you believed to be a logical falllacy in my posts, and that is what someone calls scummy. I pointed out how it wasn't a logical fallacy. Thus, I am not scummy.

Mormota

Because to me it shows he's just trying to emulate people actually scumhunting, and does not feel he can start picking at someone because he knows that someone is town.

Feeling the need to say how town you are?

I did not necessarily refer to myself with that "someone". Just town in general. You misunderstood.

Mormota: At this point I'm thinking that either you or Andrew are scum. You are scum hunting quite well, and Andrew is seeming to be an active lurker.

What? What?

Mormota
Oh jeez, where to begin with Mormota. He's either scum or stupid, as evidenced by his views on town false-claiming. This horse has been beaten to death though, I'm afraid, and what really struck me as !!SCUM!! was this quote, here:

Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere.

To me, this really reads like a hopeful mafia trying to direct the doctor's attention somewhere else so that he can take out an IC -- the most dangerous players by far -- tonight. If I were scum, I would take out an IC tonight. I wouldn't give two damns whether they're supposed to be in this game to 'teach by example', I'm in this game to win.

I'm pointing out facts. That's not directing the doctor's attention. Period.

Fanofgaming and Andrew: If you were the scum, what qualities would you like you scumbuddy to have?

WHAT is the point of your questions? We're out of RVS. Period. Stop asking pointless questions, most everyone has posted enough to allow you to form an opinion on them. Do some work or you'll be in a lot of trouble D2, ansontan2000.

I see you aren't getting the connection, saying that you will lie to us in the future if you're in danger means that you are willing to lie. Only scum need to lie, thus you're saying that you're scum. No getting around it.

I agree with this. No use arguing it any further, though. You're just repeating yourself at this point. You too, Mormota.

Showing the logical failures in the other's argument is hardly what I'd call repeating myself.

When I was mafia last game, our IC told us not to kill an IC N1, because 1, that would ruin the purpose of the BM if the IC couldn't lead by example and 2, He's most likely to receive protection.

And how does this mean that you should protect people randomly?

Fun fact: It doesn't.

Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.

No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.

Notice the pretty much.

Dariush, you are not asking questions. You have made one post teaching people, the rest were just answers. Why don't you go out and ask questions like every town person should? You can't justify it by saying "you're helping us to get good so you can read us", because you aren't helping us. I am not going to let you lie low the entire day.

[Think0028]

drakon136 has replaced in for Remalle.

[ansontan2000]

So sorry everyone, but I will have to drop out. Exams at school are here, and the workload is more than ever. I can't play mafia while doing that work. I will have to drop out.

[drakon136]

Well, bye ansontan. Never even knew you.

Unvote.

Mormota, lets say you are a cop, and you suspect someone is scum. However, your night action reveals that they are town. The next day, that person has the majority of the votes. What would you do?

[Dariush]

And how does this mean that you should protect people randomly?

Fun fact: It doesn't.

Except that's exactly what you asked about. What was the purpose of your question about protection if you already knew the answer?

Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.

No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.

Notice the pretty much.

That is retroactive bullshitting if I ever saw one.

Dariush, you are not asking questions. You have made one post teaching people, the rest were just answers.

Fun fact: I'm correcting people when they make mistakes. How about you actually go through the thread and my posts before saying something that stupid?

You can't justify it by saying "you're helping us to get good so you can read us", because you aren't helping us. I am not going to let you lie low the entire day.

Sure, I'm lying low. Not the people who are either lurking mercilessly or simply need replacing, but big bad me. Yeeeeees. [/sarcasm]

Drakon,

Mormota, lets say you are a cop, and you suspect someone is scum. However, your night action reveals that they are town. The next day, that person has the majority of the votes. What would you do?

RVS has long passed. Asking random questions in the middle of a game will not help you neither understand what's happened earlier nor find scum.

[Mormota]

Mormota, lets say you are a cop, and you suspect someone is scum. However, your night action reveals that they are town. The next day, that person has the majority of the votes. What would you do?

Depends on the context. If he was acting massively scummy and it's not LyLO, I'd go with hanging him. If one of those is not true, I'd try to divert the town's attention somewhere else. If neither are true, I'd claim cop and say he turned up town.

Sure, I'm lying low. Not the people who are either lurking mercilessly or simply need replacing, but big bad me. Yeeeeees. [/sarcasm]

If someone asks for a replacement, then they are trying not to lie low and hinder town.

Of course, this can lead to WIFOM, but you know for pretty much a fact that the IC won't get killed, so you can direct your protection elsewhere. And now comes the surprise, Watson: I ask questions to get answers. It's surprising, I know.

No, you don't know it. Otherwise it wouldn't be WIFOM which it is.

Notice the pretty much.

That is retroactive bullshitting if I ever saw one.

No, you just misunderstood.

Everyone, how come there have been only two posts since mine a day ago? Scum can wait until a nice, peaceful victory if participation remains at this low.