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[Virex]

He probably doesn't understand how someone can put his prejudices before his customers...

Mais non, je ne veux pas vous pardonner pour l'usage de ce mot horrible.

Hmm, oui, vraiment, ce mot etait un peu trop forte. Je le vais editer. Est-ce que c'est "morbidly obese" mieux?

[GlyphGryph]

My only comments about the geek girl cosplaying thing is this: Most of your "cosplay" costumes are stupid, girls, be more creative. And I really wish there was a lot more male eye candy at conventions. Of course, geek women seem to be a hell of a lot closer to their virtual counterparts than geek men are, on average, but that may just be a side effect of them being more willing to show themselves off... which comes right back around to the sexist elements, I suppose.

Gamerlord, I'm pretty sure she's implying the article made it clear that was the reason, and that's why she was looking for it.

Also, Virex, stop being a sexist. Seriously, just think about what you say sometimes.

[Vector]

He probably doesn't understand how someone can put his prejudices before his customers...

Mais non, je ne veux pas vous pardonner pour l'usage de ce mot horrible.

Hmm, oui, vraiment, ce mot etait un peu trop forte. Je le vais editer. Est-ce que c'est "morbidly obese" mieux?

Merci b'coup, "morbidly obese" va un peu mieux, mais il faut vraiment dire qui des gens existent qui aiment ce genre de fillette aussi.

[G-Flex]

My only comments about the geek girl cosplaying thing is this: Most of your "cosplay" costumes are stupid, girls, be more creative.

Just girls? Really?

And I really wish there was a lot more male eye candy at conventions.

Judging by what I've heard from girls and things I've seen, there doesn't need to be any more of that.

Go to Cracked.com, I think they had an article about how women are as shallow as men. Based on some studies or something.

Using cracked.com as a source in an academic discussion is probably not the smartest move you can make.

[Heron TSG]

Misandry? Where?

The assertion that men are incapable of self-control.

I thought it was a given that men are naturally less capable of self-control? I seem to recall that it was one of the effects of a heightened testosterone level?

You are not your hormones.

And do all men have a heightened testosterone level?

I can attest that not all men have a heightened testosterone level. In fact, my own testosterone level is only slightly higher than the average for a woman.

Also, I think that most men are capable of not committing crimes. Insinuating that all men are uncontrolled blobs of gropage is misandric.

[Virex]

Also, I think that most men are capable of not committing crimes. Insinuating that all men are uncontrolled blobs of gropage is misandric.

That's true, and it is not the point I intended to make, although I apparently did. The point I was trying to make is that completely equal treatment of women that go out of their way to look attractive and women that go out of their way to get the opposite effect (not that I am saying that there are many that intentionally make themselves ugly, it's just for the argument) is still a long shot because we have to undo a large part of our genetics. I have no doubt that that is what we ultimately have to strife for, but I also don't make any illusions about how viable it will be to reach that goal in our lifetime. The reason I was making this point is because the article discussed (in my opinion correctly) identified the problem that women that make themselves look sexually desirable get more attention than those who do not go out of their way to look desirable, to which the proposed solution seemed to be "men just have to stop paying attention to women that look pretty". If only it was that simple...

[Gamerlord]

Go to Cracked.com, I think they had an article about how women are as shallow as men. Based on some studies or something.

Using cracked.com as a source in an academic discussion is probably not the smartest move you can make.

Eh. I just put it there as food for thought, not as a source.

[Nadaka]

What's this about high testosterone making guys into uncontrolable pervs?

I have unusually high testosterone and am very much not like that.

It is a pretty rediculous asertion.

[Vector]

No, the point is that women should not have to do that in order to get any attention/engagement from other patrons whatsoever.

[kaijyuu]

@virex: I'd argue this sort of stuff is more cultural than genetic. Sure, evolution has encoded a lot of behaviors in us; that dude over there has a different skin color = not of our tribe = chuck a spear at him. We've overcome many, and we'll overcome more. Nevermind what actual effect it has; we're not slaves to instinct.

[Virex]

@virex: I'd argue this sort of stuff is more cultural than genetic. Sure, evolution has encoded a lot of behaviors in us; that dude over there has a different skin color = not of our tribe = chuck a spear at him.

Have we overcome that instinct or have we just enlarged our tribe?

[Vector]

At this point, you seem to be arguing pointlessly.

[kaijyuu]

No, the point is that women should not have to do that in order to get any attention/engagement from other patrons whatsoever.

To be fair, I think a lot of this is happening (specifically the guy's behavior). "Non-sexy" geek girls ARE noticed, but your average geek guy lacks self esteem and doesn't want to be seen as creepy. Pretending you don't exist is a defensive measure and a twisted form of respect. "I don't want to get in her way" "why would she want to talk to me" etc.

I don't want to stereotype here, but I think there's more to geek girls being "ignored" than the girl's appearance.

[GlyphGryph]

Just girls? Really?

No, not at all. In all honesty, though, most geeky girl cosplayers I know about don't dress up like that either! I really should have specified those specific cosplayers need to get more creative.

Judging by what I've heard from girls and things I've seen, there doesn't need to be any more of that.

No, you see, the problem is definitely a distinct lack. There are plenty of female cosplayers trying to pull off a sexy look they just aren't capable of (some people gotta learn to play to their strengths), but the problem is that is the only group that exists in any number for guys. There are plenty of great looking guy geeks, but most of them aren't willing to put themselves out there like that. However, if more of them did it in general, then we'd be able to utilize selection bias and just remember the ones that pulled it off, yes?

[Virex]

No, the point is that women should not have to do that in order to get any attention/engagement from other patrons whatsoever.

To be fair, I think a lot of this is happening (specifically the guy's behavior). "Non-sexy" geek girls ARE noticed, but your average geek guy lacks self esteem and doesn't want to be seen as creepy. Pretending you don't exist is a defensive measure and a twisted form of respect. "I don't want to get in her way" "why would she want to talk to me" etc.

In general, the prettier the girl, the harder guys find to approach her, so going by that reasoning, those that dress up provocatively should get the least attention, which is obviously not true.