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[Virex]

Misandry? Where?

The assertion that men are incapable of self-control.

I thought it was a given that men are naturally less capable of self-control? I seem to recall that it was one of the effects of a heightened testosterone level?

You are not your hormones.

And a cat can be taught to swim.

[Vector]

And do all men have a heightened testosterone level?

It is not a given that men are incapable of self-control.  If we are not going to state here that women are naturally mothering because they "can all have babies," we are not going to state here that men are incapable of change.

I believe that many men here are here because they want to change, or they want to help other men (as a subset of society in general) change.

If men were incapable of changing themselves, I wouldn't call this "progressivism."  We're here for change, futile as it may seem sometimes.

And "he just couldn't help himself" is not an acceptable defense for wrongdoing.

So?
It's a good thing not to be bothered all the time, when you're trying to follow up on your interests.

Next time you show up at a counter to buy something and are completely ignored, at store after store you go into, I imagine you'll understand.

[Willfor]

I thought it was a given that men are naturally less capable of self-control? I seem to recall that it was one of the effects a heightened testosterone level has?

If you had said that, you would be a little less wrong, but you didn't say that.

What you are looking for is willingness for self-control. Unless you have mental instability or condition, you have the same capability for self-control as everyone else in the world has. Saying that men are a more incapable -- as in, they literally cannot have self-control, no matter how hard they try --is actually a very offensive thing to be saying.

I've been ninja'd twice, but I'm still posting this because I took time out of novel writing to type it up.

[kaijyuu]

Do people think that would have been an acceptable response?

I personally, do not.

Telling the flight attendants to keep an eye on him would be enough. I don't like acting on unproven claims; innocent until proven guilty, and all that. Telling someone to change seats and sit by someone of their own gender is embarrassing and demeaning.


fakeedit: woah 9 people posted while I was writing this. Thread's moving fast.

[Mindmaker]

So?
It's a good thing not to be bothered all the time, when you're trying to follow up on your interests.

Next time you show up at a counter to buy something and are completely ignored, at store after store you go into, I imagine you'll understand.

Are you trying to tell me, that a cashier will ignore a paying customer, because she isn't dressed in a sexy way?
That's absurd.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Next time you show up at a counter to buy something and are completely ignored, at store after store you go into, I imagine you'll understand.

Develop a crazy-eyed look and demand their attention. 

The silly thing is that like all little sub-cultures, geek/nerdom has become a "thing" with it's own social hierarchy. See any large gathering of geeks/nerds at a convention, or dating, or internet forum.

Like the utterly ridiculous pop "gamer girl" phenomenon, some men and women are looking to climb higher and cash in.

EDIT: forgot

Yes, it's a book.

[GlyphGryph]

kaijyuu, I was considering that myself, but simply telling someone their seat has been changed on the next flight is, I think, perfectly fine. It's possible to do it without being insulting. It's a precaution while they wait for more information and, hopefully, a call from the police about whether or not they are choosing to investigate the matter. In my mind, they wouldn't even need to change HIS seat, really, just swap seats and make sure a pretty serious issue is less likely to arise without deciding on any sort of guilt of the parties involved.

[Vector]

No, it's because she's a woman.  Full stop.

Give me a minute.  I'm trying to find the article again.

[Gamerlord]

No, it's because she's a woman.  Full stop.

Give me a minute.  I'm trying to find the article again.

That means... what?

[Virex]

And do all men have a heightened testosterone level?

It is not a given that men are incapable of self-control.  If we are not going to state here that women are naturally mothering because they "can all have babies," we are not going to state here that men are incapable of change.

I believe that many men here are here because they want to change, or they want to help other men (as a subset of society in general) change.

If men were incapable of changing themselves, I wouldn't call this "progressivism."  We're here for change, futile as it may seem sometimes.

And "he just couldn't help himself" is not an acceptable defense for wrongdoing.

Oh men can change up to a point, that's a given. It's just that study upon study shows that no matter how much self-control someone displays, he'll be much easier swayed by someone that shows a bit of cleavage. One of the problems with feminist arguments is that it often comes down to "Men just have to stop treating women as sex objects", but the one saying that doesn't realize how difficult it can be to be completely unbiased. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm just saying that if you want men to pay exactly as much attention to a morbidly obese women in a nikab to Hale Berry, then you're fighting a million years of evolution. That's not to say we shouldn't try, on the contrary actually. But it does mean we have to realize that we may need to do a bit more than just talking and praying...
Besides, "he just couldn't help himself" if really true, does mean he cannot be punished. However, it also means he's a danger to society and has to be locked away or cured for the safety of all.

[Gamerlord]

And do all men have a heightened testosterone level?

It is not a given that men are incapable of self-control.  If we are not going to state here that women are naturally mothering because they "can all have babies," we are not going to state here that men are incapable of change.

I believe that many men here are here because they want to change, or they want to help other men (as a subset of society in general) change.

If men were incapable of changing themselves, I wouldn't call this "progressivism."  We're here for change, futile as it may seem sometimes.

And "he just couldn't help himself" is not an acceptable defense for wrongdoing.

Oh men can change up to a point, that's a given. It's just that study upon study shows that no matter how much self-control someone displays, he'll be much easier swayed by someone that shows a bit of cleavage. One of the problems with feminist arguments is that it often comes down to "Men just have to stop treating women as sex objects", but the one saying that doesn't realize how difficult it can be to be completely unbiased. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm just saying that if you want men to pay exactly as much attention to a landwhale (excuzes le mot) in a nikab to Hale Berry, then you're fighting a million years of evolution.

Go to Cracked.com, I think they had an article about how women are as shallow as men. Based on some studies or something.

[Vector]

Mais non, je ne veux pas vous pardonner pour l'usage de ce mot horrible.

If you want people to take you seriously in this thread, don't throw around words like landwhale.

And seriously, stop underestimating your gender.  It's doing no one a favor.  No one asks for completely unbiased.  We ask for reasonable treatment.

No, it's because she's a woman.  Full stop.

Give me a minute.  I'm trying to find the article again.

That means... what?

Please explain the source of your confusion.

[kaijyuu]

kaijyuu, I was considering that myself, but simply telling someone their seat has been changed on the next flight is, I think, perfectly fine. It's possible to do it without being insulting. It's a precaution while they wait for more information and, hopefully, a call from the police about whether or not they are choosing to investigate the matter. In my mind, they wouldn't even need to change HIS seat, really, just swap seats and make sure a pretty serious issue is less likely to arise without deciding on any sort of guilt of the parties involved.

I understand your intention, I'm just not sure that's the correct implementation. Invariably when you ask someone to move seats, they're going to ask why. I suppose the flight attendant could like and make something up to avoid insult, but yeah.



re: Virex's comments. Yeeeeaah anyone who's read my previous statements about gender stereotypes knows where I stand there. I'll stay out of this one.

[Gamerlord]

No, it's because she's a woman.  Full stop.

Give me a minute.  I'm trying to find the article again.

That means... what?

Please explain the source of your confusion.

How does the fact that she's a woman influence it?

[Siquo]

No, it's because she's a woman.  Full stop.

Really? I'd like to see that. At the bar it's usually the other way around.

*deleted some jokes here because I just remembered not to drink&joke in this thread*