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[Dakk]

^This. Even if you do not see the EULA, most have a line somewhat like "if you do not agree with this, do not buy, install, copy, etc, this product". Also most have a clause regarding the fact that if the EULA's terms aren't legal under local law, everything else that isn't expressively illegal counts, including said line.

Its not impossible to argue it, altough its a pretty gray area, and there's little benefit in doing it. Its a stablished practice.

There's a huge difference between an unenforceable clause and an illegal one. And even then it largely depends on the court's line of thought unless its blatantly illegal.

In this case, the end user agreement was availiable for you to read, and you accepted it. You basicaly bailed sony out of being responsible for any sort of reparations if something happened to your info through something beyond their intention. Sony would only be legally responsible if it intentionaly handed out people's info, which it did not, hopefuly.

[Soulwynd]

*ahem*

Smart buyers bought PCs.

Which, as we all know, is the unassailable stronghold of personal information security?

Depends on how careless you are. It doesn't limit you to a single network or even platform.

[devek]

Don't forget the worst part of the EULA, you agree to having to fight them in a court that is willing to suck them off.

[Jreengus]

Any network can be hacked or at least taken down. It is all about motivation. Don't be mad at the hackers that you can't play online right now, be mad at what Sony did to push the issue this far.

Are you seriously claiming that this is entirely Sony's fault not the hackers?

[Earthquake Damage]

In this case, the end user agreement was availiable for you to read, and you accepted it. You basicaly bailed sony out of being responsible for any sort of reparations if something happened to your info through something beyond their intention. Sony would only be legally responsible if it intentionaly handed out people's info, which it did not, hopefuly.

The EULA may not be considered legally binding, depending on the judge and so forth.  As I understand it, this has most often been the case.  Either way, unless the judge or prosecutor dismiss it, any jury trial (class action suits are this, unless I'm mistaken) would be a gamble.  In the US, jurors have the power to freely ignore the law (requiring them to render a verdict strictly in accordance with the law would necessitate an overseer, in which case there's no reason to select citizen jurors, now is there?).  In fact, they often (usually?) do.  In this case, you have evil big business oppressing innocent everyman consumers, or at least shirking their responsibility.  I'd expect some jury bias.  This is the justice system, damn it!  Rule of law doesn't apply here, and right and wrong can GTFO. :|

[Tilla]

Any network can be hacked or at least taken down. It is all about motivation. Don't be mad at the hackers that you can't play online right now, be mad at what Sony did to push the issue this far.

Are you seriously claiming that this is entirely Sony's fault not the hackers?

It is Sony's fault that they 1> didn't properly encrypt data and 2> didn't have a better alternative to fixing security than SHUT IT ALL DOWN

[devek]

Any network can be hacked or at least taken down. It is all about motivation. Don't be mad at the hackers that you can't play online right now, be mad at what Sony did to push the issue this far.

Are you seriously claiming that this is entirely Sony's fault not the hackers?

Very serious. If they spent half as much energy protecting customer data as they as they did taking a crap on their customers they would be fine. Their take down was a LONG time in the making.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit

[Chandos]

Any network can be hacked or at least taken down. It is all about motivation. Don't be mad at the hackers that you can't play online right now, be mad at what Sony did to push the issue this far.

Are you seriously claiming that this is entirely Sony's fault not the hackers?

Imagine you put your money in a bank, and the bank tells you they'll put it in a big safe, don't you worry. And then it turns out the safe had an unlocked backdoor that opened to the alley behind the bank, and some hobo had just helped himself to your money. Who would you be more mad at?
The hobo is a criminal in this case yes, and the bank is also criminally negligent. Same thing with Sony.
And then when you go to the bank to pay a bill or to make a transfer, they say "Sorry, we're closed right now, can't help you with your banking. Blame that damn hobo for this."

[Rakonas]

I actually had an issue with my account back on March 9th.  Got an email telling me thanks for my purchase of Star Wars Galaxies.  I was like...hmm, maybe it's a new free trail deal or something.  Went in and sure enough, someone had hacked the account and purchased Galaxies.

What was odd though, they did not change my password, nor did they change my email addy. (Red Flag!)
I called support, spoke with a dude for about a half hour, he transferred me to the fraud department, spoke to them for about another half hour.  After it was all said and done, they removed the game from my account, checked all of my characters (I could have cared less, had been 3 years since I played) and confirmed the hacker used a credit card other than mine.

After I got done talking with them I of course went in and changed all my info, addy, PW and all that jazz.  Granted, this current hack seems to have come after my issues...which is sort of funny/weird to me that it actually happened.  I mean, my account was hacked, just a few months before this huge attack.  It's pretty safe to say someone was testing the waters and probably hacked a few accounts.  You'd think this would have thrown a flag for Sony and they would have tightened things down more, or at least had an eye on things.

In any case, I saved all the emails and info from Sony about my situation, if anything for me gets out of wack with my identity and what not, you can bet I'll be suing the shit out of them.

Take care,

Hold the phone, hackers hacked your account and bought you a new game?
I love Cyber Robin Hood.
Anyway, I'm glad that I use a debit card, worst case scenario I realize that I'm out of money, figure out where a few hundred dollars went and complain that it was sony only to get no compensation. Best case scenario I just continue doing what I'm doing.

[Jreengus]

Yes but the hackers aren't absolved of all guilt simply because people are currently pissed at Sony. If I leave my house unlocked and the front door open sure it's my fault I got robbed but it's also the people who robbed me's fault too.

[Duelmaster409]

Related: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit (POSSIBLE NSFW pictures, if you count drawn poo NWS)

[devek]

Imagine you put your money in a bank, and the bank tells you they'll put it in a big safe, don't you worry. And then it turns out the safe had an unlocked backdoor that opened to the alley behind the bank, and some hobo had just helped himself to your money. Who would you be more mad at?
The hobo is a criminal in this case yes, and the bank is also criminally negligent. Same thing with Sony.
And then when you go to the bank to pay a bill or to make a transfer, they say "Sorry, we're closed right now, can't help you with your banking. Blame that damn hobo for this."

The better analogy would include the bank manager would running around and peeing on every hobo it saw.

Yes but the hackers aren't absolved of all guilt simply because people are currently pissed at Sony. If I leave my house unlocked and the front door open sure it's my fault I got robbed but it's also the people who robbed me's fault too.

Would be funnier if the robbers belonged to a biker gang who's bikes you would kick over on a weekly basis. You would also have it coming.

[Fayrik]

Are you seriously claiming that this is entirely Sony's fault not the hackers?

Of course it is. If they hadn't left it so horrifically open, none of this would have happened.
You could say that, without the hackers none of this would have happened. It's true. However, without anybody of such malice, there'd be no need for any electronic security at all. You'd basically be allowed to take money from anyone's bank account at any time, because no one could even perceive unauthorized access as even possible.
It's a loose-loose situation, but looking on the bright side, with need for security means we're alert to the danger. Well, maybe not Sony, but they're not going to last long with this attitude anyway.

Well, after reading this thread, my opinion of Sony really can't get any lower. I'd even go as far as to say that they may well have broken into the database themselves to illegally siphon money out of their own databases. But if I actually said that, they might sue me.
I've not bought a Sony product since the last game for my PlayStation 2. I'd offer to join a boycott of Sony, but it seems I've been doing it inadvertently for years.

[Dakk]

In this case, the end user agreement was availiable for you to read, and you accepted it. You basicaly bailed sony out of being responsible for any sort of reparations if something happened to your info through something beyond their intention. Sony would only be legally responsible if it intentionaly handed out people's info, which it did not, hopefuly.

The EULA may not be considered legally binding, depending on the judge and so forth.  As I understand it, this has most often been the case.  Either way, unless the judge or prosecutor dismiss it, any jury trial (class action suits are this, unless I'm mistaken) would be a gamble.  In the US, jurors have the power to freely ignore the law (requiring them to render a verdict strictly in accordance with the law would necessitate an overseer, in which case there's no reason to select citizen jurors, now is there?).  In fact, they often (usually?) do.  In this case, you have evil big business oppressing innocent everyman consumers, or at least shirking their responsibility.  I'd expect some jury bias.  This is the justice system, damn it!  Rule of law doesn't apply here, and right and wrong can GTFO. :|

Which is one of the reasons the US legal system is considered silly by most of the world. In most countries, juries are only required in criminal cases. Civil ones usualy do not involve moral issues but ones of the more technical kind, and so having a jury full of laymen would be unwise. I'm pretty sure juries cannot ignore the law, though, at least in criminal cases, but this isn't one, so..

Not like its impossible to argue this outside the US anyway, its quite possible, but it depends alot on the court's line of thought on the matter, and technical knowledge and experience on similar matters will pull most judges toward the contract's terms. A contract is a really powerful tool, because as long it is not illegal, irregular, obscure or otherwise not normal, whatever it says goes, most of the time.

TL;DR you can try, but the chance you'll actualy win is very, very low.

[adwarf]

I don't care what anyone says, but if Sony is going to pussy-foot around with their security, no matter what contract was agreed to, they should be held accountable that is exactly why I prefer XBOX Live atleast with Microsoft you know your stuff is safe thats why you pay for the online stuff. I mean if Sony is going to slack off on their security so much that every person who has used their online games, etc. gets their stuff stolen by hackers there needs to be reprecussions. Just because they have a giant wad of cahs to wave infront of peoples faces that doesn't give them a right to not be held accountable.

Have the found the people who hacked all of Sony yet ?