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[SmileyMan]

I believe the use of danger rooms is only acceptable if the dwarf has children or pets.  I just pretend that the dwarves sacrificed their loved ones to Armok in exchange for military prowess.

Now this I can work with! I hate pets with an absolute passion, and you've just solved it for me: any immigrants with pets get assigned to the military, and are confined to the danger room until such time as their abhorrent love of an animal is extinguished.

After that, they get assigned to a regular squad for training.  Thus: no overpowered dwarves, and no pets.  Double Prizes!

[Lord Snow]

Sucks we have to use them because dwarves dont train at reasonable rates if we dont.

I don't wall in for the first years, so i need my leather/random assorted iron piece army dwarves trained as can be.

[Mushroo]

A couple of people mentioned "all those mechanisms" but you only need 4: 1 for the 10-spear trap, 1 for the lever, and 2 for the linkage.

[Greiger]

The mechanisms are made of stone too.  I have my mechanic make mechanisms on repeat for a season and I have all the mechanisms I ever need.

I had a big long post about how it is perfectly possible to have a military based fortress successfully without danger rooms.  Then I accidentally hit the back button on my mouse and deleted it all.  It IS possible.  You do have to know what yer doing though, and start recruiting soldiers from your migrants at least my spring of the second year.  Preferably earlier.

[Newbunkle]

They're a clever use of game mechanics to provide a training simulation for your dwarves. I understand that some people like to handicap themselves for extra challenges, like embarking somewhere without wood, or not using the danger room feature, but it's their personal choice. People can do what they like since it's a single player game.

[agatharchides]

Against danger rooms - it's a flat out exploit/cheat, you might as well mod dwarves to be made out of adamantine.

I guess you don't use water reactors, or traps, or bridges, or any of the many 'exploits' available.

Believe it or not, no, I don't use any of those exploits. I'll sometime drop a few traps randomly down a hallway (not so much now that metal is rare and precious) and I do use bridges.... as bridges but I try to play the game as I believe it was intended to be played.

The only real exploit I ever use is a quantum stockpile to unload all the crap quicker at the start, then I sort from there into the proper stockpiles rather then having the dwarves spend 6 months dragging cactus logs and yak spleens from whatever random stupid spot on the map they decided to park the wagon at.

So, a hypocrite in other words. Quantum 'stockpiles' are pretty exploity.

But it's a single player game, danger room is completely optional and not something you can really accidentally do, so I don't see fixing it as a very high priority. If you want to ruin all the challenge then that's ok, it's your fort.

Wow, you're so HARDCORE! Can we ever be as cool, tough, and awesome as you?

Yes, you can! A good start is to stop taking offense when people say they don't really care what you do in your single player game! It would be one thing if I stopped in a 'danger rooms are awesome' thread to say I thought they were exploits, but this is a thread specifically asking how you feel about them so what's the problem?

The problem is that instead of saying 'I don't like them, they remove my sense of challenge for me' is that you
A) Project, like your way is the One True Path to playing DF, which its not.
B) Are a hypocrite, as I suspected.
C) You advocate for game-based lock-ins to fit your style, other people's consideration be damned.
D) Make very bold assertions with no supporting evidence save for logical fallacies.

Which gives me a pretty clear picture of who you are and how you behave. Which is to say, a authoritarian fascist with a poor grasp of logic and rhetoric. You've put forth this notion, wholly without evidence, that a game tactic is 'exploity/cheaty' equal to RAW-editing (which it is not, on its face. RAW editing is manipulating the metagame, the mechanics behind the action, to make it something that it was not built to be. Danger Rooms are done in-game, as it is built by the Toady, solely within the confines of his creation. Likewise, a 'Danger Room' as a training device is a Trope in and of itself, and is more 'realistic' than adamantine dwarves. It is likewise less 'exploity' than a quantum stockpile or a water reactor, which break the laws of physics, as opposed to proposed ethical rules.) and then take the demeanor that anyone who uses it is beneath you. Unworthy.

This is the very attitude (that you are superior due to perceived and wholly subjective moral guidelines) that begets a host of human horrors which nature can scarcely lay claim to.
[/quote]
The only way to loose this 'argument' is to take it seriously.

[Greiger]

...better appreciate that. it took me a whole minute to find on Google images.  I usually just type it.

[Zesty]

What's unrealistic about Danger rooms? There are plenty of real world examples of such.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

it's unrealistic because you become legendary just for being poked at with sticks

Which gives me a pretty clear picture of who you are and how you behave. Which is to say, a authoritarian fascist with a poor grasp of logic and rhetoric.
(...)
This is the very attitude (that you are superior due to perceived and wholly subjective moral guidelines) that begets a host of human horrors which nature can scarcely lay claim to.

the fuck dude?

[Mushroo]

In my latest fortress, the Warrior Caste is confined to a muddy cave where their entire existence consists of training in the Danger Room, raising bees, and processing quarry bushes. The leaves are shipped off to the Noble's area so they can enjoy their masterpiece lavish quarry leaf roasts, while the warriors live on a strict diet of rock nut paste and oil biscuits (and mead!). They spend half the year building big bulging biceps working the presses and querns and becoming immune to pain through constant bee stings, then the other half of the year, the Mountain itself "grinds" them into legendary warriors in the "Sacred Dwarf Press" until they are indestructible like the rock nut itself.

Unrealistic? Maybe, maybe not. But every good kung fu or boxing movie I've ever seen has a "training sequence" where our heroes become badass through endless repetition of a simple task. Cue Rocky theme...

[Minnakht]

it's unrealistic because you become legendary just for being poked at with sticks

So what if it's the floor rather than enemies that poke you with sticks? You still learn to avoid being poked, and become very, very good at it. Even in a room full of things ready to poke you, you block or dodge every single prick.

Then, during battle, you easily knock away what is just a few spears as opposed to the previous 10 per tile.

...not sure why does it train attacking, though. That's a bug.

[Blade Master Model 42]

it's unrealistic because you become legendary just for being poked at with sticks

So what if it's the floor rather than enemies that poke you with sticks? You still learn to avoid being poked, and become very, very good at it. Even in a room full of things ready to poke you, you block or dodge every single prick.

Then, during battle, you easily knock away what is just a few spears as opposed to the previous 10 per tile.

...not sure why does it train attacking, though. That's a bug.

Nah, that's because you use your weapon to block/deflect the spears as well, teaching you how to use your weapon effectively.

Same goes for Shield User, Armor User, and Striker.

Urist McKungfu bats away the spinning oak training spear!

[agatharchides]

It isn't particularly realistic since blocking an automatic spear that comes from the same hole in the wall in the same direction every time has little to do with sparring with a live, intelligent opponent who is trying to kill you.

[Mushroo]

It isn't particularly realistic since blocking an automatic spear that comes from the same hole in the wall in the same direction every time has little to do with sparring with a live, intelligent opponent who is trying to kill you.

You forget that Dwarfs are constantly drunk, therefore it is a surprise every time.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

kung fu movie or not, it's not realistic to become legendary just for doing the same thing over and over again during a year... a lifetime might make you a high master fence painter or car waxer, and surely that experience will certainly help you be a better karate fighter when complemented with actual training, but with one year doing the same job every day you are barely out of apprenticeship

but hey, don't let our opinions get in the way of a good narrative, this is how you do it:

In my latest fortress, the Warrior Caste is confined to a muddy cave where their entire existence consists of training in the Danger Room, raising bees, and processing quarry bushes. The leaves are shipped off to the Noble's area so they can enjoy their masterpiece lavish quarry leaf roasts, while the warriors live on a strict diet of rock nut paste and oil biscuits (and mead!). They spend half the year building big bulging biceps working the presses and querns and becoming immune to pain through constant bee stings, then the other half of the year, the Mountain itself "grinds" them into legendary warriors in the "Sacred Dwarf Press" until they are indestructible like the rock nut itself.

as i said, i think danger rooms are a clever invention and quite neat if thought of as a far fetched contraption, my problem is with the speed with which it get's your troops to legendary, and it annoys me that it's treated like the default way to train a military as if they had been specifically designed by toady to work like that.
i do cheat, though, but i also handicap myself. i enjoy loosing, but only in very specific and interesting ways, that's why i tamper with the game, and i know for a fact that dwarf fortress was originally designed as a game to lose, and i think that the slogan "losing is fun" has unfortunately lost it's meaning, it became a meaningless meme and forum gag, the game is actually no longer that hardcore.