Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Zrk2]

Touché.

Jokerman, scumpicks, reasons. Specifically, what do you think of Toaster?

Toaster, what do you think of Jokerman, and could you provide the reasons why Native ranks in as no. 2?

Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?

The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.

False.  Forcing someone into a scummy mindset can give you reads on how natural or unnatural that thought pattern is for a given player.
Or it can create false positives if the scum choose to NK that person (or lots of WIFOM in this case).

Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?

In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question.  As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.

Also, NativeForeigner.

Vector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:

Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?

In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question.  As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.

You quoted me twice on the same thing to explain... what, exactly?  Please tell me how all of my questions about behavior and reasoning in this game have to do with establishing a meta, because I'm not seeing it.

Yeah, I asked for past games from LNP.  I was seeing how he responded to that request more than being honestly interested in the information.  That was the only meta question I asked.  So put up or shut up, friendo.
My point was that you appear to contradict yourself here. You say that the RVS is for creating discussion from the questions asked and the answers provided, yet your questions do not ask anything that would provoke discussion, since they only go towards you determining his meta. Therefore you fail to live up to your own stated goals in the RVS.

I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.

I believe that constitutes a slip.  Explain this statement.

No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.

Chainsaw defense.

This has already been addressed previously.  I can address it again, but I believe you'd do better by actually reading the thread.
Mmhm.

She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.

So, Vector, I haven't played a game with you before, but I've heard good things about you. Do you feel a little rusty? What do you think of playing in a less role heavy environment?

Yes, I do feel pretty rusty.  Less so than I did last time I played, though, because I feel confident that I'll be able to be active and aggressive again.  Also, I'm a hell of a lot more mentally stable.

It's the sort of rustiness that comes of not having employed one's skills, not of having had one's skills degrade substantially.

Which is another thing I hate. You keep putting in little notes about how much you might be wrong, just in case you're wrong. You're not certain of what? You have to be certain of something. Why are you making yourself not accountable for your actions later on?

I'm worried about lynching town, and I'm still shaking off the rust.

Don't be an idiot.  You asked me if I was rusty, so yes--I did bring it out early.  Because you asked.  The second time, which I suppose constitutes the "often" in your book, explains why I was expressing uncertainty in my skills.  As you may have noticed, I haven't said anything about being rusty recently.  This is because I no longer feel rusty. Ok, good. I hope we do hear that again because it will confirm you scummitude as you try and cover your inevitable tells.

Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisy

I am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining.  The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other.  I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around.  The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_>  It looks like an opportunistic vote.

Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.

I'm observing them.  Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure.  A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.

Again, dearest: don't be a goddamned idiot.  I explained why I was pushing some people and observing others.  The difference between my behavior and that of those whom I am exhorting to post more is that I'm actually talking, arguing, and questioning, and they aren't.  I don't believe in passiveness alone.  I believe in occasionally observing someone one finds suspicious while attacking and prodding other people. Then why not ask a few questions about said acts, oh yes 'sometimes you have to let scum be scum in peace.' Brilliant, we can 'observe' you all game long while you mess around and kill us off?

[Vector]

1. Yes, there is a possibility of it producing WIFOM.  This means that the questionee has an opportunity to intentionally provide WIFOM, which means that we can see how interested they are in manipulating the system thus.

I'm not sure how much more obvious I need to make this.

2. There is one question that is remotely related to player meta.  It was after an apparent slip.  Informing me that I am contradicting my own RVS expectations brings you... where?

3. Have you noticed that your entire case on me is an enormous speculative bandwagon, or is it just me?  You start off with "your RVS question can create false positives," move on to "you asked a question at the tail end of RVS that doesn't fit with your ideals with beginning RVS," proceed to "you might say you're rusty in the future, which would be bad" and end with "the fact that you observe people sometimes instead of pressuring them along with your main picks means you are SCUM SCUM SCUM!"

Along with.

Not instead of, along with.

Jesus Christ.

[webadict]

Please note, Zrk, that I too have a post you can reply to. Not just the top message of it. I'm really disliking the answers, and I'll address them both together.

[Leafsnail]

Possibly.  I think that it should be a red light that indicates "question more here," but it isn't failsafe. I usually pay more attention to things like over-detailing of one particular thought, because that's usually a gambit to provide distraction from some other, weaker part of the post.

Mhmm.  So, look back at your post before that.  Did all those things really go through your head at the time of those actions?  During what you say is still basically RVS?  Because, really, I don't see how you even had that much stuff to explain by that point.

I'd still like this answering, but I'll unvote for now.

I wish I could vote LNP but it would only be because he has no sense of humor, and how he scumhunts.
Like Leafsnail says, he will jump on one thing and go into obsessive detail on it.

How ever the person I will vote for Is leafsnail
He Nitpicked on LNP's way of going about scumhunting a tad too much...
Who do you think is doing the best scum hunting LeafSnail?

Wait, you agree with my point but think it's scummy to make that point?  What?

Question is useless and completely irrelevant to the accusation you're making.  Webadict seems the most genuine out of anyone here at the moment.

Hypocrisy and indecisiveness. You're switching between two positions here; you're complaining about my methods, yet when Leafsnail does so it becomes a scumtell.

So, you definitely read my post since you replied to SaintDraze.  And yet you still didn't reply to my points, LordNincompoop.

I'll put the allegation to you again - you aren't scumhunting.  You're just picking on as many small points as you can to try and make other people look bad.  You don't seem to be looking for alignments so much as for reasons to hang them.

[Vector]

Answered right here, Leafsnail:

Extension.

Mhmm.  So, look back at your post before that.  Did all those things really go through your head at the time of those actions?  During what you say is still basically RVS?  Because, really, I don't see how you even had that much stuff to explain by that point.

Yes.  Of course, they were condensed into a number of pictures and fragmented memories, but I was thinking about those points, in general, as I posted.

I really, really don't want a repeat of what happened last time I played here.  I want to be useful.

[Zrk2]

2. There is one question that is remotely related to player meta.  It was after an apparent slip.  Informing me that I am contradicting my own RVS expectations brings you... where?

To the point that by not asking questions to provoke the discussion that you claim is the point of the RVS you are not living up to your own goals for the RVS.

Basically:
1. You say the RVS is for getting a discussion going based on questions asked.
2. You ask questions designed to establish his meta.

Looking into his meta is not a discussion provocateur, unless you brought it into the discussion, which you haven't. Had you asked some other questions then there would have been no problem.

As to why you, I haven't seen any other glaring scumslips from anyone else.

I will have a half day at school tomorrow and so will have plenty of time to reread the thread indepth and then compose a better list.

Please note, Zrk, that I too have a post you can reply to. Not just the top message of it. I'm really disliking the answers, and I'll address them both together.

Address away, and then I shall reply. Going to bed soon, will be able to post again ~12pm EST tomorrow. I hope.

[NativeForeigner]

Wuba because something about the post of his I mentioned seemed off. I'm still working on figuring out exactly what.

That literally came out of nowhere and is just vague and unjustified enough to jump on board a bandwagon at any time.

I'm really pushing on WHAT it is that seemed off to you. Things don't just "seem off" for no reason. They have specific ways of being off. Like a picture seeming like it's sideways. Or colored wrong. Or the face is hideous, despite being incredibly gorgeous. It's some aspect that is funny, and your generalized way of "he seems off" is about as unsupported as you can get without just posting my name in blue.

No, I mentioned it before.

As what it was that seemed off, I think it may have been the way it was worded or what you said, I'm not entirely certain and when I get the chance I'll be going back and looking at it closer. The fact that I haven't FoSed is entirely because I haven't had the time to go back in depth.

[Toaster]

Vector:  You addressed the points I brought up well, but the feeling that motivated me bringing out those points remains.  My gut feeling is still strongly saying you are scum, so my vote remains for now.


Zrk2:  Native is at best #3 now, fighting SaintDraze for that spot.  You've moved in to a solid #2.

Reasons for Native:  It's largely associative with Vector, my #1.  They spent much of the first couple RL days throwing easy questions and soft attacks at each other in a manner that reeked of distancing.  Other than that, gut feeling.  I certainly wouldn't vote for him right now, because if I'm wrong on Vector I'm probably wrong on him.  He's currently a target for another day.

Read on Jokerman:  He's always quiet during RVS.  RVS is pretty well over at this point, so I'd love to see him drop a vote.  He's currently in neutral, but any more quietness and passiveness will start moving him toward scum.

I've mentioned my case on you.

[Vector]

To the point that by not asking questions to provoke the discussion that you claim is the point of the RVS you are not living up to your own goals for the RVS.

Basically:
1. You say the RVS is for getting a discussion going based on questions asked.
2. You ask questions designed to establish his meta.

Looking into his meta is not a discussion provocateur, unless you brought it into the discussion, which you haven't. Had you asked some other questions then there would have been no problem.

As to why you, I haven't seen any other glaring scumslips from anyone else.

All right.  As I have said before:

I asked a question to get an answer.  I could have asked anything; what I wanted was to start a dialogue.  It doesn't matter if we talk about the original subject.  What mattered is that I said something, I got a reply, we started talking.  I asked a rather large number of questions, some fruitful, some not fruitful.

I think the strange thing here is that I asked a number of questions which gave me certain results, and you're assuming that because you got nothing out of them, I got nothing out of them, and therefore I must be scum.  And, furthermore, because the initial dialogue was short, no dialogue was to be had.  Indeed, we're currently talking... I didn't mean that RVS must directly result in conversation, simply that the purpose was to ask questions, get answers, and start talking about something, anything.

Of course, there must be a certain amount of "positive behavior" observed in any case, so that we do not confound ourselves with the appearance of scumhunting/towniness rather than the lack thereof, but I still think your reasoning is crap.

Vector:  You addressed the points I brought up well, but the feeling that motivated me bringing out those points remains.  My gut feeling is still strongly saying you are scum, so my vote remains for now.

Since when have you played chiefly off gut?

[Toaster]

It's not common, but when my logical game isn't giving me that much, I try the gut.  The gut feeling on you is much stronger than usual, as well.

[SaintDraze]

I should have elaborated more but i didn't have enough time too.


What I was meaning when I said that I want to vote LNP and Web is that I Really wanted to vote them because they are kinda(very) rude(mah poor poor feelers ), but I can't because generally they are playing so properly to the point that I am least suspicious of them then everyone else...

I don't Like the way LNP is scumhunting, But it is scumhunting regardless,and not a reason to vote him.(even if it is a Rude way of doing so...)

Leafsnail however has been nitpicking about it for quite a while on numerous occasions.
(yah I don't really know the right questions to ask - But I think I got something from it.)


@vectors question:
A players first move is supposed to be during the RVS isn't? You shouldn't start with an already made assumption at the start of the game. I may have been a tad late for the Random voting stage, but I think I was within my bounds...

And his other question- I really think you are confusing me with Supercharazad
I have been horribly passive for the last couple of games I have been playing.
No I think I have found suspect to question. So I am going to lay off of the distance tactics theory...
It would also be cumbersome to use right now since everyone is nearly attacking some one else...

Now pardon me while I eat a stapler in shame.

I wish we could have a Vote tally some time soon.

[webadict]

Hey everyone: Let's NOT lynch Vector. There's an especially scummy bloke by the name of Zrk2 who might require a good lynching.

I'll need an extension, though, as I am completely busy all day.

[Toaster]

Completely unofficial vote count:

Spoiler: Vote count, spoilered since not official (click to show/hide)

Vector - 3 -  Toaster NativeForeigner Zrk2
Toaster - 0 -
Zrk2 - 1 - webadict
Jokerman-EXE - 0 -
SaintDraze - 2 - lordnincompoop Vector
Leafsnail - 1 - SaintDraze
webadict - 0 -
NativeForeigner - 0 -
lordnincompoop - 1 - Leafsnail

Not Voting: Jokerman-EXE,

SaintDraze:  You're defending instead of attacking there.

[webadict]

Please note, Zrk, that I too have a post you can reply to. Not just the top message of it. I'm really disliking the answers, and I'll address them both together.

Address away, and then I shall reply. Going to bed soon, will be able to post again ~12pm EST tomorrow. I hope.

See, Zrk... I'm not really all for any of the things you're saying. Not only do I want Vector to be alive at least until Day 2, I would really, REALLY hope that you'd be giving her a fair trial. On the one hand, you suddenly popped into existence and gave us something to read. On the other hand, you popped out of nowhere and gave us crap to read.

Zrk2.

Would you mind being here? What would be a good thing for you to do right now? See following wall of text.

Why is it you're saying things, but not showing things? What is your information so far? See following wall of text.

What are you hiding? Nothing.

Unvote, vote Vector.

Well isn't that nice. My post is so unimportant, it's answered in itself, followed by a vote. I feel like we accomplished a lot here.

Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?

The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.

Ooo, close one. The answer we were really looking for was a person's name.

I don't find this question to be bad. In any way. This isn't bad. It gives about as much opinion on who to NK as READING THE THREAD TO SEE WHO IS ACTIVE. DUR. There IS potential for this question, especially if asked to a scum pre-death. Granted, not much, but I'm not willing to believe that Vector or anybody else is planning on killing someone based on that question.

So, that's one point utterly destroyed. This point proved that you have no idea what you're saying, which might be counter to your overall goal.

Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?

In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question.  As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.

Also, NativeForeigner.

Vector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:

I deleted your extra quote, as you simply repasted the same one, and I couldn't tell what you were trying to prove.

In fact, she had more to say about NativeForeigner right above that quote, which seems to have been deleted, so as to make your argument appear somewhat less incompetent:

Wuba: Is Leafsnail really scum and you're his partner playing some sick joke you hope you can rub in our faces later?

Also, do you expect anything about this game to be different considering that all of the players are "experienced" in a BM setting?

PFP

How many games have you played here, and which were they?  How many times have you played scum?  Can you link me to the games in which you played scum?

I will agree that these questions are terrible, but the intention is to begin talking, and she DOES happen to get a conversation flowing with NativeForeigner, proving your point to be false. You have again failed to show how this makes Vector scum.

Now, if you had shown these questions and shown them to be terrible, I could agree with that. Your point, however, is moot, since she DOES provoke a discussion with NativeForeigner, if only a while afterward.

I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.

I believe that constitutes a slip.  Explain this statement.

No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.

I don't even know what you're trying to show with this post. If someone has to go back and look at the quote in question to figure out what it means, you did something wrong.

However, that doesn't even begin to say what was wrong with that post. First of all, Vector (supposedly, mind you, as I'm not Vector) misunderstood the quote to mean that the RNG shouldn't favor him (which might have something to do with being picked scum), which was in response to SaintDraze asking why the RNG favored him. Your response MAKES NO SENSE to either situation.

Not only that, but scum would equally like to live. Town want to live because their lynch wastes the Town's resources by not lynching Mafia. Scum want to live so that they win a Day earlier.

Your point thus needs either an explanation or doesn't exist. Which leads to my your next point:

She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, Vector, I haven't played a game with you before, but I've heard good things about you. Do you feel a little rusty? What do you think of playing in a less role heavy environment?

Yes, I do feel pretty rusty.  Less so than I did last time I played, though, because I feel confident that I'll be able to be active and aggressive again.  Also, I'm a hell of a lot more mentally stable.

It's the sort of rustiness that comes of not having employed one's skills, not of having had one's skills degrade substantially.

Which is another thing I hate. You keep putting in little notes about how much you might be wrong, just in case you're wrong. You're not certain of what? You have to be certain of something. Why are you making yourself not accountable for your actions later on?

I'm worried about lynching town, and I'm still shaking off the rust.

Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisy

I am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining.  The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other.  I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around.  The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_>  It looks like an opportunistic vote.

Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.

I'm observing them.  Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure.  A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.

This is about your only point you make, and it was mine. Not only that, but you had MY WHOLE POST to not only steal arguments from but to supplement them into your own post. You instead chose to make up your own arguments that are potentially nonexistent, but also really bad.

I can help but feel a little disappointed by that. You didn't put any effort into your post at all. Is this what you were working on while you were lurking? You can't even begin to call this evidence or even a reasonable support for your vote. I'm calling you out, pal. You either need to spend a bunch more time on this, or you need to unvote. Not that I'll unvote you any time soon. You haven't shown yourself to be an asset to the Town.

See the rest of this post that you have managed to avoid? Yeah, you should answer that.

[Zrk2]

You mean like I answered it here?

Touché.

Jokerman, scumpicks, reasons. Specifically, what do you think of Toaster?

Toaster, what do you think of Jokerman, and could you provide the reasons why Native ranks in as no. 2?

Furthermore, who do you think will be of greatest danger to the scum in this game?

The only benefit of this is to the scum, who can get other opinions on who they should NK.

False.  Forcing someone into a scummy mindset can give you reads on how natural or unnatural that thought pattern is for a given player.
Or it can create false positives if the scum choose to NK that person (or lots of WIFOM in this case).

Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?

In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question.  As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.

Also, NativeForeigner.

Vector says the only purpose of RVS is to provoke discussion, but her questions here do nothing to raise questions or provoke discussion, they just go towards establishing a meta. Where she says this:

Vector: Why are you asking that third question? The only team that can benefit from it is scum, as you'll essentially be telling them the targets, and since we don't have a doctor or a cop, we can't use that info anyways as we have no way of reacting to it. Besides that, any thoughts on game and players?

In my personal model for how this game functions, the only purpose of RVS is to get people talking and see how they think on any question.  As for why I asked that particular question, I'm looking for hints of awkwardness/naturalness around being asked to assume a scummy mindset.

You quoted me twice on the same thing to explain... what, exactly?  Please tell me how all of my questions about behavior and reasoning in this game have to do with establishing a meta, because I'm not seeing it.

Yeah, I asked for past games from LNP.  I was seeing how he responded to that request more than being honestly interested in the information.  That was the only meta question I asked.  So put up or shut up, friendo.
My point was that you appear to contradict yourself here. You say that the RVS is for creating discussion from the questions asked and the answers provided, yet your questions do not ask anything that would provoke discussion, since they only go towards you determining his meta. Therefore you fail to live up to your own stated goals in the RVS.

I don't know, but i'd really prefer it didn't.

I believe that constitutes a slip.  Explain this statement.

No it doesn't, townies want to stay alive so they can hunt scum, it's hard to do that if they get lynched.

Chainsaw defense.

This has already been addressed previously.  I can address it again, but I believe you'd do better by actually reading the thread.
Mmhm.

She has this claim of being 'rusty,' which she brings out early and often, so she can use it as a shield to defend herself against scumslips later.

So, Vector, I haven't played a game with you before, but I've heard good things about you. Do you feel a little rusty? What do you think of playing in a less role heavy environment?

Yes, I do feel pretty rusty.  Less so than I did last time I played, though, because I feel confident that I'll be able to be active and aggressive again.  Also, I'm a hell of a lot more mentally stable.

It's the sort of rustiness that comes of not having employed one's skills, not of having had one's skills degrade substantially.

Which is another thing I hate. You keep putting in little notes about how much you might be wrong, just in case you're wrong. You're not certain of what? You have to be certain of something. Why are you making yourself not accountable for your actions later on?

I'm worried about lynching town, and I'm still shaking off the rust.

Don't be an idiot.  You asked me if I was rusty, so yes--I did bring it out early.  Because you asked.  The second time, which I suppose constitutes the "often" in your book, explains why I was expressing uncertainty in my skills.  As you may have noticed, I haven't said anything about being rusty recently.  This is because I no longer feel rusty. Ok, good. I hope we do hear that again because it will confirm you scummitude as you try and cover your inevitable tells.

Here is one of those scumslips: She tries to justify being passive as letting people drop scumtells, yet tries to push others to be more active. Scum, with a side of hipocrisy

I am certain that Jokerman and Zrk have been sidelining.  The latter has been performing some actions reminiscent of playing people off of each other.  I don't like the persistent "So, how do you feel about [PLAYER]" questions that have been flying around.  The latter also piggybacked off of my accusation of piggybacking and didn't exactly pay attention to LN's explanation >_>  It looks like an opportunistic vote.

Then why, oh why, are you not trying to push them any harder? You hardly push them as much as SaintDraze, and that's getting a whole lot accomplished.

I'm observing them.  Sometimes you have to push people as hard as you can, and sometimes you need to see what happens when they aren't under pressure.  A lot of people drop more tells when they think the water is fine, than when they think it's boiling.

Again, dearest: don't be a goddamned idiot.  I explained why I was pushing some people and observing others.  The difference between my behavior and that of those whom I am exhorting to post more is that I'm actually talking, arguing, and questioning, and they aren't.  I don't believe in passiveness alone.  I believe in occasionally observing someone one finds suspicious while attacking and prodding other people. Then why not ask a few questions about said acts, oh yes 'sometimes you have to let scum be scum in peace.' Brilliant, we can 'observe' you all game long while you mess around and kill us off?

Jokerman, anything to say to my questions?

I will reread the thread today.