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[GlyphGryph]

Looks like Israel has targeted the Gaza power plant, and the strip no longer has power. Some generators here and there, but I can't imagine they'll run long what with the blockade. Combined with the Israeli ban on media entering the country, and their firing on AlJazeera offices, it seems likely we're going to be getting a lot less news about what's actually happening in Gaza very soon.

(No sources, second hand and twitter accounts, more details when I get them)

Dug a little deeper. Here's the source on the Power Plant stuff:
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/23/headlines

The Israeli media ban source isn't worth linking, and it's not true, at least not now - apparently a misunderstanding based on an article from Cast Lead where that did happen? I dunno. Point is, not applicable to this conflict, though the firing on the Al-Jazeera office remains true, and the Israeli Foreign Minister is trying to ban AJ completely.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/al-jazeera-gaza-offices-hit-israeli-fire
http://www.newsweek.com/israeli-foreign-minister-avigdor-lieberman-seeks-ban-al-jazeera-operating-260178

[Sheb]

Maybe not, but burningpet will present the UNRWA as basically a Hamas front.

Palsch, assinging blame for the escalation is of course hard, especially since low-level violence between Hamas and the IDF happens all the time, but at the very least Israel didn't try to prevent it. Hell, we had burningpet telling us that they escalated things on purpose to get an excuse to attack the tunnels.

Regarding the way an occupation would weaken or reinforce Hamas, I guess only time will tell. I think however that short of passing every fighting-age male Gazan by the sword, the best Israel can hope for is for a lull in the rockets shooting during the occupation (why bother with rockets when you can kill Israeli soldiers at home?) and for a few month afterward while Hamas retool from fighting an occupation to rockets. It's basically what we had in 2008 and 2012.

I think I'm with GlyphGryph here. The only long-term way to bring peace (and to prevent their citizens from dying) is for the Israeli government to show that there is a non-violent way toward peace. Stop blocking internal recognition of Palestine and recognize it as a state. Pull back the settlements, start withdrawing from the West Bank under some conditions (Like a Palestinian government strong enough to keep its terrorist in check). The real choice is not whether or not to bomb Gaza in response to Hamas, but whether or not to make peace with the Palestinian. And Israel chose not to.

[Sergarr]

...

OK.

So, Israel's justification for being so terrible was thrown out the window, they've bombed a U.N. shelter they KNEW was a U.N. shelter, they're trying to scare foreign journalists...

Remind me again, WHY has Israel got backing from America?

Because America is against everything sane and intelligent.
Like the fact that America is one of 3 countries which has not accepted the metric system.
Or the fact that America's schools teach young-earth-creationism to people as a valid theory.

[XXSockXX]

Extening the economic links between the countries, providing support they can later threaten to withdraw, investing in building hospitals and schools in Palestine instead of tearing them downn its that sort of long term thing that might end up resulting in true peace down the road.

Similar to that idea, the EU has been sinking an enormous amount of money into development aid in the West Bank and Gaza, for strategic reasons, not for humanitarian need (there are far poorer regions in the world than Palestine). Palestinians receive the most development aid per capita in the world, due to hopes this might help end the conflict. However all these efforts are wasted when Hamas uses Schools and Hospitals built with that money as weapon stashes and rocket launching platforms, which ultimately results in the buildings getting destroyed and re-built later with even more money.
There are also economic links between Israel and Palestine, there were much more close links, but past experiences with suicide bombers have made open borders pretty unrealistic in the foreseeable future.

[smjjames]

...

OK.

So, Israel's justification for being so terrible was thrown out the window, they've bombed a U.N. shelter they KNEW was a U.N. shelter, they're trying to scare foreign journalists...

Remind me again, WHY has Israel got backing from America?

I'm wondering myself why the US is still backing Israel in the face of all this.

[Wolfhunter107]

...

OK.

So, Israel's justification for being so terrible was thrown out the window, they've bombed a U.N. shelter they KNEW was a U.N. shelter, they're trying to scare foreign journalists...

Remind me again, WHY has Israel got backing from America?

Because America is against everything sane and intelligent.
Like the fact that America is one of 3 countries which has not accepted the metric system.
Or the fact that America's schools teach young-earth-creationism to people as a valid theory.

You are talking about private schools, right? The public schools don't teach creationism.

[smjjames]

...

OK.

So, Israel's justification for being so terrible was thrown out the window, they've bombed a U.N. shelter they KNEW was a U.N. shelter, they're trying to scare foreign journalists...

Remind me again, WHY has Israel got backing from America?

Because America is against everything sane and intelligent.
Like the fact that America is one of 3 countries which has not accepted the metric system.
Or the fact that America's schools teach young-earth-creationism to people as a valid theory.

And Russia is backwards for being rabidly anti-gay, if you sling poo, I can sling poo as well.

Russia also seems to be against everything sane and intelligent, so there.

[GlyphGryph]

Both of you - this thread is NOT the place for it. Take it to PM or something.

[scriver]

Isis orders all women and girls in Mosul to undergo FGM.
Not very unexpected :|

Actually it is a bit unexpected, even for ISIS, I don't think that is as common practice in the Middle East as it is in parts of Africa.
Holy shit, 4 million potential victims, that is just terrible.

Indeed. Female "circumcision" is wholly an African tradition (as far as I know, at least), and there's certainly nothing in the Koran that directly supports it (beyond the general anti-female-sexuality undertone, that is). Even in Africa it's hard to tell if female genital mutilation can really be said to be a "religious" custom. Maybe it was at some point, but these days it's basically just happening because it's tradition and "they're supposed to do it", and because they think it will make the women easier to get a good marriage for. If I remember a documentary I saw correctly, an anti-FGM organisation spokesperson listed this as one of the reasons they believe in a brighter future as soon as they can get the ball rolling (which they already have, to a point).

[XXSockXX]

Isis orders all women and girls in Mosul to undergo FGM.
Not very unexpected :|

Actually it is a bit unexpected, even for ISIS, I don't think that is as common practice in the Middle East as it is in parts of Africa.
Holy shit, 4 million potential victims, that is just terrible.

Indeed. Female "circumcision" is wholly an African tradition (as far as I know, at least), and there's certainly nothing in the Koran that directly supports it (beyond the general anti-female-sexuality undertone, that is). Even in Africa it's hard to tell if female genital mutilation can really be said to be a "religious" custom. Maybe it was at some point, but these days it's basically just happening because it's tradition and "they're supposed to do it", and because they think it will make the women easier to get a good marriage for. If I remember a documentary I saw correctly, an anti-FGM organisation spokesperson listed this as one of the reasons they believe in a brighter future as soon as they can get the ball rolling (which they already have, to a point).

From what I have read since, it also happens in some isolated communities in the Middle East, for example in parts of Iraqi Kurdistan. Otherwise this is new for the region and it is also something I had not heard Jihadists in the area trying to do. They are really going out of their way to make Al-Quaida look nice in comparison, it's disgusting.

[nenjin]

Indeed. Female "circumcision" is wholly an African tradition (as far as I know, at least), and there's certainly nothing in the Koran that directly supports it (beyond the general anti-female-sexuality undertone, that is). Even in Africa it's hard to tell if female genital mutilation can really be said to be a "religious" custom. Maybe it was at some point, but these days it's basically just happening because it's tradition and "they're supposed to do it", and because they think it will make the women easier to get a good marriage for. If I remember a documentary I saw correctly, an anti-FGM organisation spokesperson listed this as one of the reasons they believe in a brighter future as soon as they can get the ball rolling (which they already have, to a point).

FGM in Africa is a way to sexually control young women and guarantee their virginity. By making intercourse painful and effectively impossible without a surgical treatment, African women can have the terms of the sexuality dictated by someone else. So in a sense I'm unsurprised that ISIS is now doing it.

[GlyphGryph]

However all these efforts are wasted when Hamas uses Schools and Hospitals built with that money as weapon stashes and rocket launching platforms, which ultimately results in the buildings getting destroyed and re-built later with even more money.

Perhaps have the Israeli's not only build and maintain the schools, but also provide them with security whose sole purpose is to protect them?

Yes, the schools might get attacked in that situation - but that really only plays to Israel's advantage, would it not? Then instead of being the ones destroying the schools and killing children, it's Hamas attacking them and the Israeli's valiantly defending children that aren't even their own. Of course, you'd need to convince them to let the Palestinians handle the actual teaching staff and lesson plans and whatnot to avoid the idea that this is a propoganda school... but honestly, and this would be part of the problem, I have trouble believing Israel would willingly involve itself in such a plan unless it WAS a propoganda school, which would render any value it had worthless.

[palsch]

The FGM story may be a hoax.

And in further water-muddying news, one IDF source has reported Gazan rockets landing in the area of the shelter that was reported as shelled. In another tweet he suggested there was a humanitarian window for evacuation from the area this morning, something that has been explicitly denied by the staff at the shelter. No other official IDF response I've seen so far.

[XXSockXX]

Perhaps have the Israeli's not only build and maintain the schools, but also provide them with security whose sole purpose is to protect them?

The big problem with that is that Israeli security in Palestinian schools would basically mean occupation, to a greater extent than what we have in the West Bank now. You could probably do it, but not if you wanted the Palestinians on a route that gets them their own state, I doubt they would be content with that.

FGM in Africa is a way to sexually control young women and guarantee their virginity. By making intercourse painful and effectively impossible without a surgical treatment, African women can have the terms of the sexuality dictated by someone else. So in a sense I'm unsurprised that ISIS is now doing it.

It's just that it is nothing deeply rooted in the local culture in the Middle East, at least for the most part. These Jihadists are usually very "puritan" in a way, they destroy local religious culture that they don't find justified in their interpretation of the Koran, like the Sufi tradition or the tombs where martyrs or other important figures are worshipped. There are cases like the Taliban, where local tribal traditions play a big role too, but this is not the case here, since FMG is not common in Mossul or the rest of ISIS controlled territory.

The FGM story may be a hoax.

Let's hope it is. I found it a bit strange anyway.

[GlyphGryph]

Perhaps have the Israeli's not only build and maintain the schools, but also provide them with security whose sole purpose is to protect them?

The big problem with that is that Israeli security in Palestinian schools would basically mean occupation, to a greater extent than what we have in the West Bank now. You could probably do it, but not if you wanted the Palestinians on a route that gets them their own state, I doubt they would be content with that.

If you withdraw your settlement and don't involve yourself with governing, instead just doing humanitarian efforts and providing your own security, that's hardly "occupation, to a greater extent than we have in the West Bank now". Do you think the Palestinians would decline an offer to withdraw settlements and replace them with hospitals, schools, nursing homes, food banks, and shelters, even if they had Israel security on premises?

I'm not saying this sort of thing would be guaranteed to work. I'm saying it's worth making the effort and trying. Because what they are doing now is definitely not achieving the goal they claim to want.