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[yamo]

Achievements does not a game make... but apperantly it does.

uhm...yes,  they do.  All games.  Difference between games and toys.

[Tres_Huevos]

So having arbitrary goals (the achievements) apart from, say, completing the story/leveling up/other normal points of games, defined by someone other than you, the player of the game, makes it a game instead of a toy?
I'm afraid I don't quite understand your reasoning. Care to explain?

[BigD145]

Achievements does not a game make... but apperantly it does.

uhm...yes,  they do.  All games.  Difference between games and toys.

Achievement: run game
Achievement: save game
Achievement: load game


Whelp, I guess it's not a toy anymore. How else can we make toys into games?

Achievement: put wooden block on top of other wooden block.

Shit, son. This is getting better. I'd better market this awesome IP and its achievement before someone else does.

[forsaken1111]

Shit, son. This is getting better. I'd better market this awesome IP and its achievement before someone else does.

[Neonivek]

Nothing wrong with collection-based gameplay. It is a time-tested and proven fun method of gameplay. Some people don't enjoy it, certainly, but many do. Even games like Metroid were collection based, as you needed to get all those hidden missile expansions, energy tanks, upgrades, etc

It is the over focus on collection based gameplay that is becoming a problem.

There are many games that outright require you to collect.

In otherwords it is an artificial way to lengthen out a game as well as play on someone's addiction to replace better gameplay.

As for Yamo he is using a different word.

He is using "Achievement" in its original definition... not Achievements as in those side stuff that doesn't actually affect gameplay (or does so in a minor way).

[forsaken1111]

If people enjoy the collection aspect of the game they will play it. If they don't, they will not. The problem comes when you require players to perform tedious collection tasks to advance the core gameplay imo

[Neonivek]

If people enjoy the collection aspect of the game they will play it. If they don't, they will not. The problem comes when you require players to perform tedious collection tasks to advance the core gameplay imo

The problem also comes when you replace more important gameplay aspects with collection.

Which is also becoming more apperant.

[Sowelu]

Remember when Will Wright used to talk about making "software toys" that didn't have goals, so (like a ball or something) you could create your own?

Yeah...

[G-Flex]

Remember when Will Wright used to talk about making "software toys" that didn't have goals, so (like a ball or something) you could create your own?

Yeah...

Yep. That's one reason why I wish there were a version of The Sims that were remotely like a simulation. I don't mean in the sense of not having wacky stuff like ghost-hunting (because that could just as easily be any other job, like pest extermination, without changing a thing about the game), but rather that the focus is on this bizarre combination of "zany micromanaged sitcom dollhouse" and "halfassed role-playing game".

[Duke 2.0]

TF2 had some nice achievements back in the day. Some real challenging things that made you feel badass when you did it.

 "Fuck yes I just cut down three dudes in a row with my melee weapon while they were shooting at me I am a god and the game recognizes my awesomeness."
 "Hell yes I just splattered like a million people on the walls I am MVP forever."
 "I... guess I just shot a bunch of bombs?"

 And yeah the preference of these over the guaranteed ones mentioned above is obvious, so I'll leave that alone.

 Ain't nothing wrong with collection. Pretty much every platformer ever had it and did well with it. Metroid, Jack and Daxter, Zelda, Mario and what have you. But I'll agree that there is a bit of a quirk to those games and their collection. All the items you collect make you stronger in some way, whether small boosts in your holding capacity or health or slightly better equipment, there was a meaning behind the jingle of getting something. That is perhaps the saving grace of achievements, they need to have some meaning behind it.

 Although Jack and Daxter was an odd one. You needed to collect orbs that didn't empower you in any way to advance the plot at some parts, which normally is a no-no. But it worked just fine. I had fun looking for them and getting 101% completion in the game. This subject requires further investigation.

[G-Flex]

One reason achievements are sometimes awful is that achievements simply do not work and are not appropriate for some games, yet they're expected to be included. The only choice the developer is left with, in that case, is to make them as unobtrusive as possible, hence the really generic ones that serve as little more than saying that you've played the game to a certain level of advancement.

[forsaken1111]

An eye for an eye - Defeat Beholder, the watcher. [Kill the monster at the end of the tutorial. Really. You can't not kill it. You have to in order to proceed. Why get an achievement for this? There's an achievement for every boss after that too.]

I don't see the harm of it either. Yes the first one is pointless, but having an achievement for each boss does serve to show your friends how far you've progressed in the game, for example.

TF2 had some nice achievements back in the day.

TF2 has sold out to the point of ridiculousness. You can't buy a new game these days without getting a stupid fucking hat for TF2.

[Duke 2.0]

 I said back in the day, when the only way of getting unlockable weapons was through achievements. That was an odd system, but the soldoutness of the current game does not degrade the quality of the lessons learned from its features, especially the ones from two years ago.

[Soulwynd]

I started playing this sims today, but I'm afraid it will become really pointless after the quests are over. Just hope there are a shit ton of them.

[Empty]

There are roughly 36 different quests.