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Author Topic: BYOR5.5 - Day 9: Just Kidding. Game Over.  (Read 131963 times)

Pandarsenic

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #375 on: December 25, 2010, 10:20:04 pm »

The revive is part of my role - it'll be explained when I claim later today.
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Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.
YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
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IronyOwl

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #376 on: December 25, 2010, 11:38:29 pm »

5.  ...I don't really have an opinion on that.  He either skimmed Zath's argument and missed it (which would be just sloppy), or intentionally missed and and misrepresented Zath as not responding to it (scummy).  I can't answer without being in his head, but if I had to guess, I'd pick option 1.
Alright.

6.  The first time he labeled him as cult, he didn't provide reasoning at all.
Yes he did:

Quote from: joker
RVS is a joke, and there's no reason to be a part of it; people are going to throw votes around and ask inane questions whether or not I'm there. And, if you actually knew where my statement about RVS came from, you might change your tune. I originally stated that I would be there, and if a question was asked of me I would answer it. And it's also been shown that as soon as the game gets rolling, I'm ready to go.
In your own words, RVS is over, and we're full-throttle scumhunting. Your refusal to participate in RVS is scummy on its own, but even scummier is your saying that lurking is OK (yes, you did, see above). You a) actively refused to consider a cultist faction until called up on it; b) think town lurking is not scummy; c) think RVS is useless, even if it brought up the first interesting conversation of the game; and d) have failed to do anything useful for town whatsoever.  You are scum. If pressed for details, I'd guess of the cultist kind.

I didn't see a need to respond to it, so I didn't.
Yes you did:

Zathras:  Interesting view on the cult possibility.  It has merit, but it's idle speculation for today.

Why such bad memory about this part?


Haikus
So you're either harmless or cult tonight. Unless it's a gambit by Nirur, etc etc.


The revive is part of my role - it'll be explained when I claim later today.
Just out of curiosity, why claim later today, as opposed to right now or not at all? Is there something you need to see/ask/happen first?
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Pandarsenic

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #377 on: December 26, 2010, 01:20:25 am »

I'm not sure how my claim will affect the game overall, and I want it to continue for today without that disruption - but I don't want the day SUDDENLY ENDING, ARCHANGEL, before I can do it.
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KARATE CHOP TO THE SOUL
Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.
YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
Fuck off, you fucking fucker-fuck :I

Archangel

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #378 on: December 26, 2010, 02:47:25 am »

It was a one shot power, Pandar.
Archangel: That was a scummy thing you did, and all for nought. Prematurely ending the day D1 is generally in favour of scum. Only the fact that I also believed Pandar to be scum yesterday ameliorates it. Do you still think Pandar is scum? Are you still asking for a replacement?
I am convinced that you are scum.
If a replacement hasn't been found by the start of Day 2 and I'm still feeling the way I'm feeling right now, I'll cancel the replacement request. However, Webadict, don't think that you can use this as an excuse to not advertise for a replacement.
I'm still feeling the way I was feeling then. Warning: This is not actually a good thing. I think my feelings towards this game are best described by the term "Fuck y'all." It would have been better for the game if Web had gotten a replacement, but he didn't even try, so you're stuck with me now.

Because of the way they jumped in on the attack on me with that utter bullshit about me deflecting Pandar's question, I'm suspicious of both Org and Argembarger. Not much point going after the former. If I can be bothered at some point, I'll have a look at the latter.
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Ottofar

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #379 on: December 26, 2010, 04:42:15 am »

Zathras. Do you still have the three votes?

Mind trying to split them?

Also, my survival was, I think, like a Christmas present from webadict.

Nirur Torir

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #380 on: December 26, 2010, 12:08:50 pm »

Well. It seems that my intent was to collect some information through some power, but it seems I was role-blocked, remember?'
Anyway, yeah I'll try to be good.
Also, Nirur's role sounds like bullshit, and he claimed so early.
Herp a derp derp.
Well, you've claimed a type of cop, yet claim you have nothing for us due to being blocked in the night. How is your early claim any better then my early claim?

Nirur, could you be a little bit more specific?

Do you know the format of the haiku that one would have to say to get roleblocked?
Is it just three phrases with 5-7-5 syllables? Who decides what counts as a haiku, you or the mod?
I'll talk with Web, and get back to you after his reply. I *think* that he is the one who decides, so I'll probably have a Web-approved haiku for people to copy.

Nirur Torir, I don't totally trust your claim without evidence. That Haiku condition could be linked to any number of things - arson, cult recruitment, other things. Forgive me if I don't voluntarily say a haiku yet.
Pandarsenic: Why are you willing to almost believe me, if I was at the top of your scum list yesterday? Archangel's rise in your scumminess chart certainly doesn't let me off the hook, if your suspicion of me is linked to how scummy he is.

Zathras: Why is it that you alone are willing to trust that I'm townie enough to do my role-related action?

Correction to my role:
Roleclaim: I'm a roleblocker. Each night, I can either:
Roleblock one person, or
Roleblock my pick of any/all who have said a haiku the previous day.
I believe I could test people's powers one at a time.
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Org

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #381 on: December 26, 2010, 12:25:34 pm »

I never claimed cop.
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Org

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #382 on: December 26, 2010, 12:25:56 pm »

Stop lying scumbag.
Nirur.
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Nirur Torir

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #383 on: December 26, 2010, 01:44:03 pm »

I never claimed cop.
You didn't outright claim, no ...
Well. It seems that my intent was to collect some information through some power, but it seems I was role-blocked, remember?'
I was annoyed at my block.
How can I tell if Pandar was the killer when I get blocked?
But you -have- outright stated that you having an investigative role. (I consider any investigative role to be a type of cop.)



Argembarger: A haiku is 5-7-5, as determined by Webadict.
It won't work if the haiku is in quotes.
The following is a valid, yet horrific, haiku, copy-paste ready:
This is a haiku.
It's a rather bad haiku.
This is a haiku.
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Pandarsenic

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #384 on: December 26, 2010, 02:33:58 pm »

Nirur Torir, I believe parts of your claim.

I believe, for instance, that you want us to say haiku - for whatever reason. I won't say I believe you're a roleblocker, but you probably have something haiku-related.

Or you're SHAD0Wdumping us.
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KARATE CHOP TO THE SOUL
Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.
YOUR BONE IS THE BEST PANDAR
[Cheeetar] Pandar doesn't have issues, he has style.
Fuck off, you fucking fucker-fuck :I

Toaster

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #385 on: December 26, 2010, 03:46:59 pm »

Zathras:  Answer me these:  For your original vote power, was it a single vote that counted three times or three separate votes?  Also, did your original role mention the PM at all?  Did you get the new PM before the day ended, during the night, or at the start of D2?

Also, we're waiting on the Jokerman reasoning.


IronyOwl:  First point:  Ok, I read over that one.  My bad.  It's still very weak reasoning.

Second point:  I was rereading his posts, not mine.  I honestly forgot that, probably because I, as I said, considered it idle speculation.


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Org

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #386 on: December 26, 2010, 05:51:04 pm »

Nope.
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Zathras

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #387 on: December 26, 2010, 07:26:55 pm »

Zathras:  Answer me these:  For your original vote power, was it a single vote that counted three times or three separate votes?  Also, did your original role mention the PM at all?  Did you get the new PM before the day ended, during the night, or at the start of D2?
I asked that very question, and wuba said it was intended as a 3x vote for a single target, but if I voted for two people, I could send him a PM before the end of day letting him know if I wanted to split them and how. I didn't intend to do that, though. I'm not sure I understand your middle question; if you mean that Caligula knew about the revive, no, it was a surprise; the lack of a deadchat tipped me off that there was something else going on, but I didn't know what until I got my new role PM. For the third, it was after the lynch, but soon after it, my guess is it was before night actions were sent and processed.


Quote from: Ottofar
Zathras. Do you still have the three votes? Mind trying to split them?
Also, my survival was, I think, like a Christmas present from webadict.
a) no, I no longer have the three votes or any other power.
b) Heh. That is not suspicious at all! Unless you're being humorous, in which case, I hadn't considered the Santa Wuba hypothesis; maybe he placed a plasma bomb under my tree that burned me to the bone? No, I think Ottofar's story is more scummy than he's letting on.


Quote from: Nirur
Zathras: Why is it that you alone are willing to trust that I'm townie enough to do my role-related action?
Well, you seemed townie enough to me D1, and your blocking claim matches Pandar's result claim, so it seems plausible. Also, I have little choice. People may or may not believe me, but unless I'm blocked tonight they will not chance it and lynch me, and I need to be alive to win, so it's in my best interests to ask claimed blockers to consider me as a target.




Quote from: Toaster
Also, we're waiting on the Jokerman reasoning.
Right. I've been putting it off because it's a long post and I've been busy elsewhere, but here goes. Questions for my other scum picks (Pandar and Ottofar) will follow after this.



We'll take the D1 arguments as read. Here's the summary: [1], and my last to him, to which he responded with bullets instead of arguments [2].

But let's look at the more recent stuff:

I'll just drop this here: I used to be a Vigilante, which is why I was so sure Zathras was scum.
This makes no sense. Why would a vig know who the scum is?

Quote from: Joker
At first I didn't want to go after him because he felt like aggressive town, but as time went I started to realize that he didn't feel right and I knew I was onto something.
This is bullshit. He went from "I have decided on is that you don't feel like scum right now" to "For one thing, Zathras is scum." in the span of 24 hours, there's nothing gradual about it, and it was clearly because he was fed up with my badgering him, not because he thought I was scum. Then he posted once to try to defend himself, and seeing he failed, he shot me instead or replying to my response.


Quote from: Joker
I gave up my ability to NK, however, in order to use my one-shot Daykill on Zathras.[...]The plan was pretty much to kill Zathras, but he was leading town towards killing a role that's very beneficial towards town, so I figured it was a better investment to give up my NK ability and save a scumhunter.
You got lucky. You wanted to shut me up, not get rid of scum. It even worked for a little while. You say that you had a beneficial-for-town ability, but you could just as easily be a scum with a 1-shot daykill. And save a scumhunter? You? Puh-leeze. You had been a dead weight to Town since the game started, and made only perfunctory attempts after that.


At first I didn't want to go after him because he felt like aggressive town, but as time went I started to realize that he didn't feel right and I knew I was onto something.
Interesting, because this would seem to mean his attack on Pandar was what finally lead to your realization. Was that it? What specifically made you feel confident enough to kill him?
2. It wasn't his attack on Pandar that did it - I don't even recall the particulars of that attack. However, he was tunneling me heavily, and it seemed to me that he was seriously jumping the gun; he posted twice to rage at me for lurking when I posted saying I would be gone, then had two separate people come by to let you guys know. Seriously, no one gets that riled up D1 without knowing something, and on D1 there's only one faction that knows something the others don't.
This is utter bullshit. a) It was surprisingly timely given my attack on Pandar (whom I haven't forgotten, as was endlessly scummy D1 too). I had proved I wasn't tunneling D1, and I explicitly said my attack on him was not for lurking. Nor, I think, was I that riled up; if anyone lost composure, it was him. But the clincher: there's indeed only one faction that knows something others don't, and I wasn't it. Scum knows who is scum and who is town, but an SK only knows himself. I had no way of knowing your alignment but your play, and it's in the SK's interests to also drop the main scum team - in fact, lynching a scum is a good way to get the town to leave you alone for a while. I knew you were scum from your play, and it was in the SK's best interest to turn that into a lynch of scum.

Summary up to here:
a) You say I had knowledge that I didn't and couldn't have. You lie.
b) You say you had knowledge that you couldn't have. You lie again.
c) You followed your OMGUS vote with an OMGUS daykill with the only intention to shut me up. Given the evidence you had, it was not in the best interest of town to do it... but it was in the best interest of saving your ass. You happened to get lucky, and used that to try to coast through the rest of the day wearing the "scumhunter and saviour of town" mantle, badly.


Some other points:

My stance on lurkers is the same as it always has been, but I figured that if it got to be too much trouble this game I would just take them out myself - I tried to get other town to hunt active people, but that backfired on me.
That's a lot of targets this game. Do you really think ignoring and then NKing them is the most efficient way to combat lurking?
4. It was an attempt to get people to just fucking ignore it for at least one game day! Jesus Christ, it's so goddam frustrating - every single game, that's all people ever default to. I was hoping that we could make it through one game in which it wasn't a problem, because lurkers would find themselves dead and the actual hunting would have more room to happen. That was my plan, anyway.
So what's your plan now? Do you insist that people should "just fucking ignore it"? Or it's OK to get them to post now even if we aren't "completely convinced everyone else is town"? You say you no longer can kill the lurkers, so do you plan to ignore them or challenge them?


You can't just make claims without any backing in this game; give some hard evidence of your own.
Sure you can. You can even daykill them. You did both, without giving a single shred of evidence on me, except for your demonstrated lies.


This one is quite telling:
Didn't say you're scum. Said you're scummy. Zathras' assaults scummed you up quite a bit, and having the possibility for other anti-town roles, your name is not cleared. I'm not making any sort of new claims here, and I'll give hard evidence when I have it. Like I said, I'm choosing not to pursue you yet.
Basically what you're saying is that a highly anti-town role painted me to be scum, and that combined with the fact that there's a possibility of more anti-town roles, is enough to mark me as scummy in your eyes, despite the evidence to the contrary? Boy, that makes sense.
Boy, your argument makes no sense, and your sarcasm is on you. That "highly anti-town" role of which you speak was a third party, so there's not only the possibility, but the certainty of more anti-town roles: the scum team. And you end it up with "despite evidence to the contrary"? what, pray tell, evidence to the contrary? Produce that evidence, or you are lying again, scum.

And of course, my previous SK alignment does not invalidate my arguments at all. Had I been part of the scum team, and known you were town, sure, but I wasn't, and didn't have any knowledge of your alignment beyond your actions, so my arguments are to be judged on their own merit. You don't get to dismiss them just because you got lucky. That's what a member of the scum team would try to get away with, though.


He was challenged on this, and tried to wiggle thusly:

In a game with 13 players, you can bet on three scum, leaving ten. We've already identified one third-party, leave nine. If you account for a survivor, that's eight, which is just about perfect for town. So actually, the odds of an anti-town role are extremely low, as that would unbalance the game terribly. So now what?
This is called evidence.
Bullshit. The question is whether you are part of the scum team, for which you say there's "evidence to the contrary". Your "evidence" cites that there are likely three, but does nothing to say you aren't one of them. I say you are. Incidentally, I also think there's decent chance for further anti-town roles like jester or cult that you are conveniently ignoring once again like you did earlier in the game.


That's it for direct quotes. Please Jokerman-EXE, answer the following direct questions:

1. Do you or do you not admit to contradicting yourself several times D1? "mmmmaybe a third party", "I'd bet on a third party", "the odds of an anti-town role are extremely low", so are there or aren't there?; "I never said anything about ignoring lurkers." and "I'm not even defending lurking!", yes you did, and yes you were.

2. You said your intention was to Vig-kill the lurkers. Leaving aside that you couldn't have NK'd them all, do you think killing the lurkers without knowing if they are town or scum is good for town? Don't you think you'd end up NK-ing townies that way? Wouldn't you want to at least ask them a couple of questions to better guess their alignment? Or is lurking a justifiable death sentence for town in your mind? Isn't challenging the lurkers to participate better for town than night killing them? That kind of indiscriminate bloodlust screams scum to me.

3. D1 is over. What will your policy on lurkers be for D2? If you don't follow through with it, should we consider you scummy?

4. Do you concede that I could have no knowledge of your alignment, given that I wasn't in the scum team? If you do, weren't then you lying when you said "on D1 there's only one faction that knows something the others don't. [referring to me being that faction]"?

5. You went from "you don't feel like scum" to "For one thing, Zathras is scum" in one post, 24hours. Then posted once more trying to defend yourself and failed, so you followed it up with a daykill. Is this correct? Please confirm. If it is correct, how is it not a) a blatant OMGUS; and b) an action explicitly taken to shut up your attacker?

6. Did you know I was scum when you killed me? If you didn't, aren't you lying here: "I used to be a Vigilante, which is why I was so sure Zathras was scum." Where you a vigilante with a daykill and a day-cop as well? No. I'm sure it was only to shut me up, and you just got lucky. Your then dressing it up as "oh I was saving a scumhunter" is not only bullshit, it's also quite funny.

7. You never answered my questions here, where I a) prove I wasn't tunneling; b) call you on your lies about me attacking you for lurking, which I didn't; and c) reiterate your contradictions. You never addressed my points, but continued to say I was tunneling and calling you a lurker. Please address these points, or admit that you were lying yet again when you accused me of those things before my comeback.

8. Preempting your useless complaints: you may say I'm tunneling now but keep in mind that a) I'm asking you about your prior statements before my revive; and b) you're not my only scumpick, I've not had a chance to post questions for them, and yours was a long post long coming, so them's the breaks. In any case, answer why you thought I was tunneling then.



That's it for now. More to come (on him and others) as time permits.
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NativeForeigner

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #388 on: December 26, 2010, 09:26:00 pm »

Unvote. Zathras, it's refreshing to have someone see the other side of Jokerman's case again. Your utter willingness to be blocked loses you my vote for now, but you're not quite off the hook.

Native, I haven't forgotten you, but I want to hear from Zath first.

Toaster, I'd rather hear from you now, if you don't mind. I'd like to get this nonsense cleared up.

Jokerman, it's been a while since we've heard from you. You haven't posted at all D2. I'd like you to answer a couple things.

1) Are you going to continue your BS campaign against me now that Zathras is back? Or are you going to OMGUS him again?

2) Are you ever going to start trying to clear your name with real Goddamn evidence or are you going to keep us with your same BS cop outs?

3) When are you actually going to start scumhunting? As far as I'm concerned, you're arguments against me were pathetic at best, they didn't hold any true weight behind them. It was more you trying to divert attention from yourself by trying to make me seem scummy by presenting convoluted, mostly inane "arguments" as to why I'm "scum". Please try to pull something better out your ass before making another attempt.

I know you're scum, and I intend to see you hang today.
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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

Jokerman-EXE

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Re: BYOR5.5 - Day 2: Old Friends Discuss New Times
« Reply #389 on: December 27, 2010, 01:03:10 am »

Lol, Native is such a bandwagoner. While Zath is dead, you can't be bothered to make a case on me, but as soon as he's back you're sooooo fired up and ready? I hope someone else can see this crap.

PFP, real post in the morning.
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