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[Argembarger]

Is Mafia typically more active on a Monday than a Sunday night?

[JanusTwoface]

Disclaimer:
Yes, I don't generally have enough computer access over weekends to post regularly. This is by choice, and this is not new. I'm back until the day ends though. If you have something you'd like me to respond to, let me know. I'm sure I missed something.

On the Zathras / Pandarsenic thing:
Right now I think that Zathras is a Psychic Warden and just didn't know about the flavor.  He hasn't played in a Paranormal Mafia before, that's understandable.  And the evidence on Pandarsenic is pretty bad.  If anyone can step forward to claim an alternative hypthesis (or claim in PM to someone they trust), that would be shiny but otherwise the evidence is pretty damning.

Ottafar, I still think you should hang (including for points in the spoiler at the bottom), but we can deal with that tomorrow.  Pandarsenic first. (Not that my vote is really necessary at this point)

For testing Zathras, I'll volunteer to be Wardened. It actually makes sense. As some of you may have guessed by my target, I'm a Military Mad Scientist and I choose Assassin Bot (which I used on Org). Thus, I'm essentially a Vanilla Townie now, so Zathras can block me without worrying about potentially blocking someone with an active role that may not want to reveal as such. I'll still get the roleblocked flavor if he's telling the truth and actually is a Warden.

If he is actually the Exterminator, we'll need to kill him, but at this point I think that either he'll kill a Dopp or the Dopps will kill him at some point, making it worth enough waiting until tomorrow to lynch him.

Jokerman did a pretty good job with the flavor, but it's not 100% consistent with how I would have written it.

A response to this to everyone in general: my night PM was a little off, but he fixed it. I'm willing to bet that if there were any other discrepancies, they were fixed as well. I would strongly suggest not basing your gameplay entirely or even mostly off this.


Responses to other things:

@Janus: Screw up more. Seriously, there's so little wrong with you it's actually kind of weird. Oh well. Feelings do not make reasons for lynching.Unvote.

I'm ... not sure what to make of this ... thank you?

So let's say you think that I'm scum. Would you do everything in your power to get me lynched?

Depends. Yesterday, I would have used my Assassin Bot on you (as I did on Org). Today, I would lynch Pandarsenic first. Tomorrow, I would do everything in my power to make sure that
1) I'm right
2) The concensus sees that

Guys, lynch Pand. Zathras is a town Psychic Warden or the world's stupidest alien. Either way, lynching Pand is a much better use of time.

Or a smart Dopp (maybe a Dopp Psychic Warden).

- If they're both scum, it means they're trying a rather risky gambit. Based on what I know of the two of them, I doubt it, but I won't rule it out entirely.
- If Pandarsenic turns town, this would be a pretty stupid move for a dopp Zathras. He'd know that we'd go after him tomorrow. Unfortunately, Zathras is just the type to possibly try the WIFOM on this. Don't think Pandarsenic will turn town though.

So, the possibility of a dopp Warden is probably not something to worry, but is something to keep in mind for the endgame.

Lol, wat?
My computer just BSOD'd.
First time ever.
All I was doing was posting a reply to Kamina and listening to some Homestuck muzak.
Is... is this normal? Is Mafia cursed?

Now I have to retype this; goody.

Oh thank you so very much! (I'm being serious). So many people have this same problem (lose a post) and just give up and never bother to retype it. In the future, I would suggest typing your posts in notepad and saving every couple lines. It's rather helpful, much less likely to explode.

Days will last for 48 hours or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).

I read that as "once everyone has cast a vote, the day insta-ends". Ah well, whatever.

That's mostly for the endgame and I'm pretty sure that we'd get a mod post saying that it was going to happen before it does. Don't worry about it. Expect the day to basically when the schedule says (in non-hammmer games like this one at least).

Spoiler: Responses to Ottofar (click to show/hide)

Yeah. Fuck. I got to reply #227. I was listing all of Janus' posts. Suddenly: the damn browser crashes. It's 12pm here. I'm not going to do it again. Anyways, in short, Janus was driving the policy lynch, but it didn't work out. He wouldn't back off, because someone could've said he just wanted to get a free lynch. Then he gets SHAD0W and Cript to vote for, and argues with Cript about the amount of the Org-concerning posts. Also, he was too friendly with Kamina, which is also suspicious.

Anyways I redo the damn post tomorrow. Good Night.

Also, eight new replies.

This is all *really* old news and has been discussed quite extensively. If you have something new to add, by all means spit it out. But I doubt it.

*also responding to Ottofar's 2 posts before this* -JanusTwoface

Anyways, in short, Janus was driving the policy lynch, but it didn't work out. He wouldn't back off, because someone could've said he just wanted to get a free lynch. Then he gets SHAD0W and Cript to vote for, and argues with Cript about the amount of the Org-concerning posts. Also, he was too friendly with Kamina, which is also suspicious.

This one, I mean.

That was ... completely unhelpful. Could be that I'm biased (seeing as it's me and all), but the posts to me look like a decently active player who doesn't like lurkers but doesn't focus only on that (go talk to Leafsnail otherwise, you can form your own little anti-me club). Basically, it looks like you're trying to drive a lynch. And you *completely* ignore the Pandarsenic thing... Good job on that. That's exactly the kind of thing town should weigh in on (and dopps should pretend to weigh in on).

Not really. As I have stated, I'm quite bad at mafia.

Up to reply #227 I'd have voted him.

It started getting less scummy from somewhere there.

Then why did you bother going through all of that work to analyze all of my posts? That's less than halfway through. And you still haven't done a thing about the current most interesting part of the game.

Spoiler: Responses to Leafsnail (click to show/hide)

Oh wait, no, we're playing mafia.  A game where the aim is to FIND AND LYNCH THE FUCKING SCUM.

Which you're not doing.

Bullshit appeal to authority.

Uhuh.  In any case, it says nothing about scummy, and doesn't even seem to apply to this case at all, since you're both blindingly obvious scum.

Bullshit? No. See the bolded part.

Extension since JanusTwoFace isn't being lynched yet.

Not going to happen. At the very least not today. Again with the obsessive getting me lynched crap. Especially because the extension already went through at that point.

I eagerly await JTF's eventual response, which should be fairly amusing.

My response to what exactly?

We have a full team: Pandarsenic, Janus, KaminaSquirtle and Jim.

I'm actually curious about this one (most of my previous questions I could care less how you respond at this point, I'll admit it): If you really think that's the scum team, do you really think that we'd be *so* stupid to be this obvious?

[Toaster]

Argembarger:  Never shorten while discussion is going on- scummy.

Does *anyone* doubt that Pandar is a dopp?  Seriously, anyone?  All he's done since my last post is move his vote to the other suspected person while contributing nothing to the discussion.  He's pretty much thrown in the towel here.  There's no reason he shouldn't be lynched.

Whoo, managed to tell the girl I'm derp for how I feel without screwing up our friendship.

And yeah, don't lynch Zathras - on further thought it was probably just a mistake by Jow.

Fun fact: You can call me a lurker all you want but I've posted more than several players. D:<

Unvote.

Ahahaha.  Waffling around now.  Yeah, you're scum and have thrown in the towel.

Dude.  Stop.

The operative deal was perfectly legitimate.  There is no reason there couldn't be an exterminator operator and an exterminator.  It's still a possbility.

Actually, now Pandarsenic has said that he was wrapped by chains, it's extremely unlikely.  Just like it always was.

Pandarsenic never said he was wrapped in chains, scumbucket.

At least not in the main thread. Can't say what's going on in scum chat.

This troubles me.  It brings an decent case to Leafsnail possibly being scum, but Kamina is my #1 non-Pandar target.  I cannot see this as distancing, because it's gone on far too long.

Leafsnail:  Please restate your case on Janus.  Your Kamina case is clear enough, but your Janus case is murky.

I'm interested in hearing from some of our quieter folks, since the lynch is pretty much decided now.

Puppet, Web, Ottofar, Mish:  Please state your opinion on the Pandar/Zath affair.

[Jim Groovester]

Is Mafia typically more active on a Monday than a Sunday night?

Depends on the players, but weekends theoretically do not count towards participation.

And at best, a shorten right now would end the day sometime Monday morning instead of at 5pm Pacific.

Shortens are best when there's a clear consensus about who to lynch and it's pretty damn clear that there's not going to be a lot of discussion about it. Discussion's happening now; no reason to cut that short to hang Pandarsenic a few hours early.

JTF, what do you make of all the crap I've been giving Leafsnail about? About his silence concerning Pandarsenic until prompted, his slip about Pandarsenic's stated flavor, about his choice of targets.

Puppet, Web, Ottofar, Mish:  Please state your opinion on the Pandar/Zath affair.

Since I've been going on about it, I'll ask you: Do you think any of those players' silence about PandarsenicZathrasgate is scummy?

[Argembarger]

Fair enough, Cancel Shorten Request (though I guess nobody else was going to request it anyway, whatever)

Does *anyone* doubt that Pandar is a dopp?  Seriously, anyone?  All he's done since my last post is move his vote to the other suspected person while contributing nothing to the discussion.  He's pretty much thrown in the towel here.  There's no reason he shouldn't be lynched.

-delicious waffles-

Ahahaha.  Waffling around now.  Yeah, you're scum and have thrown in the towel.

Dude.  Stop.

This is like the second or third time this has happened. Do you think Kamina is doing it on purpose at this point? I find it kind of funny actually. Both ha-ha funny and suspicious funny. But the suspicious funny is kind of a stretch, I think.

On the Zathras / Pandarsenic thing:
Right now I think that Zathras is a Psychic Warden and just didn't know about the flavor.  He hasn't played in a Paranormal Mafia before, that's understandable.  And the evidence on Pandarsenic is pretty bad.  If anyone can step forward to claim an alternative hypthesis (or claim in PM to someone they trust), that would be shiny but otherwise the evidence is pretty damning.

Ottafar, I still think you should hang (including for points in the spoiler at the bottom), but we can deal with that tomorrow.  Pandarsenic first. (Not that my vote is really necessary at this point)

For testing Zathras, I'll volunteer to be Wardened. It actually makes sense. As some of you may have guessed by my target, I'm a Military Mad Scientist and I choose Assassin Bot (which I used on Org). Thus, I'm essentially a Vanilla Townie now, so Zathras can block me without worrying about potentially blocking someone with an active role that may not want to reveal as such. I'll still get the roleblocked flavor if he's telling the truth and actually is a Warden.

If he is actually the Exterminator, we'll need to kill him, but at this point I think that either he'll kill a Dopp or the Dopps will kill him at some point, making it worth enough waiting until tomorrow to lynch him.

Does roleblock flavor come up no matter what, or is it only when you actually get blocked from doing a role? I'm not familiar with the night PM's or the flavor.

Are you worried that openly volunteering for this might make you a target? I feel like there's too many ways that this plan can potentially go sour. Will we have a contingency plan?

[JanusTwoface]

JTF, what do you make of all the crap I've been giving Leafsnail about? About his silence concerning Pandarsenic until prompted, his slip about Pandarsenic's stated flavor, about his choice of targets.

I think that you have good points.

Silence: He's been waxing and waning in postage, mostly ranting about something or the other about me. Yes, he didn't respond to the Pandarsenic thing as quickly as I'd have liked, that's a point against Ottofar as well.

Slip: The 'Pandarsenic said chains' bit, yes?  I don't think this would be good enough by itself and is shaky even as supporting evidence. A lot has been said. On the other hand, almost none of that has been said by Pandarsenic, so that's some support at least. All together, I think it's worth mention, but less important than you seem to.

Targets: I have no idea why he's latched on to KaminaSquirtle and myself. I can somewhat see his case on KaminaSquirtle, but most of that can be attributed to being new. It's entirely possible that he's new scum, but I just don't get that vibe from him.  For me, I've given up trying to figure out what exactly his point is there.

Updating my most recent list in this post: Right now, I'd like to see Pandarsenic, Ottofar, and then Leafsnail lynched in that order.  All but the first are definitely subject to what happens between now and then.  Mr.Person just feels usual for him, but I don't have much more than gut instinct on that one.  Zathras can be bumped down a category pending confirmation as a Warden (see my previous (response to Mr.Person) and the second half of this one for why).

Does roleblock flavor come up no matter what, or is it only when you actually get blocked from doing a role? I'm not familiar with the night PM's or the flavor.

85% sure. PMed the mods to ask just in case. If I remember correctly, I've done the same thing before in a previous round of Paranormal. (Although I could be hallucinating that)

Are you worried that openly volunteering for this might make you a target? I feel like there's too many ways that this plan can potentially go sour. Will we have a contingency plan?

That's actually part of the point.  For the moment, we'll assume that there's no longer a town Medium about and that Pandarsenic flips scum. (The first is reasonable but not assured because of rule changes this round IIRC, and the second raises a whole different can of worms we can deal with tomorrow).

If the dopps assume that I'm telling the truth, they really have three options:
- Kill me to stop me from confirming / anti-confirming Zathras
- Kill Zathras
- Kill someone else because they know I'm no longer a power role

If it's the first case, then it's likely that Zathras is a Town Warden and they want the WIFOM.  Not guaranteed, but good enough until closer to LYLO.  If it's the second, then that solves us the problem of confirming Zathras and we've traded a Townie for a Dopp.  If it's the third, then we know more about Zathras than we did before, at the very least if he's telling the truth or lying.

Overall, I think it's a pretty decent plan.

(NOTE: I thought about PMing this, but it's not really worth it. The Dopps can/should probably come to the same conclusions that I have, probably more actually since they have more information).

[Jim Groovester]

While I don't have a problem with you offering to be Warden'd, I'd like to point out that I also volunteered.

I guess Zathras has the benefit of choice. If he's town I hope for his sake he chooses wisely.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Zathras]

Heh, yes I hope to choose wisely.

For the record, yes, I will block someone tonight, but I will not say in advance whom, for the obvious reasons that I don't want others to target them as well, or the scum to know my plan. I will reveal my target in the morning, assuming I'm still alive (which is a big if, since the scum now know I have a power role). I may choose one of the volunteers, though it would feel like wasting a perfectly good action on a probable townie just to save my own life, rather than using it to actually block the scum, which is what it's for... hell, I may get lucky with my aiming again, and if the dopps don't kill tonight as well, we'll have bagged another. Whether the target admits it or lies about it, I can't control.

Question: given Pandar's own admission twice, Leafsnail's curious confirmation, Meph's statement about Jokerman's flavour, and the bolded parts of P16 action PMs I highlighted (which included dizziness and sleep), do people still doubt I'm a warden? Because "block me just to prove you're not an alien" is rather useless if people no longer think that I'm one, yes?

In any case, we'll see. I do think attempting to block scum would be more useful than saving my own neck, but I will not make my choice until the day ends, and I won't reveal it until tomorrow, if I survive the night.


In other things: JTF, I find your claim of Mad Scientist surprising, and your killing Org uncool. He was being useful, man! Not playing his useless derping game as usual, but posting paragraphs! If we add your unconcern about offing a townie (even after he proved useful), your suspiciously clean nose, your delay in voting Pandar until he was a lost cause (yeah, weekend, whatever), and your volunteering to be blocked, I think you are Pandar's scumbuddy. You are OK with lynching him now that he can't be saved, but if you convince me to block you the dopps can assign the night kill to someone else and hit for sure, yes? Last night, the dopp team could have agreed "Pandar, you do the NK; JTF, you use your bot on Org. We off two townies in one shot."


Moderator: please prod Mish, Mysteriousbluepuppet, and webadict. For the first two, perhaps a forced replace or modkill wouldn't be out of order. They've done nothing the entire game.

[Mr.Person]

Roleblocking a target or choice of targets as opposed to just letting Zathras pick randomly has advantages and disadvantages.

Pros:
Get information based on who the mafia and Exterminator decide to kill.
No roleblocking a useful power role.
Other townies don't interfere with the roleblock somehow.

Cons:
Have to reveal player(s) who don't mind being roleblocked.
Can't roleblock the mafia and unlikely to roleblock the Exterminator (unless of course the Exterminator is Zathra)

Since 2 players have already volunteered, let's go with Zathras blocking one of them without saying which. It has the advantage that even if the dopps/Extie kill one of them, the other might be the actual one to get blocked.

[Jim Groovester]

Zathras, you can do what you want.

But while you may think you should be using your power role to prevent night kills, you're missing the point of confirming you. It may not solve your problems but it solves ours: we won't have to waste a lynch on you to prove that you are or are not an alien. Since there is a way to investigate your claim without needing to lynch you, it's much more preferable to take that option.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Does *anyone* doubt that Pandar is a dopp?  Seriously, anyone?  All he's done since my last post is move his vote to the other suspected person while contributing nothing to the discussion.  He's pretty much thrown in the towel here.  There's no reason he shouldn't be lynched.

Whoo, managed to tell the girl I'm derp for how I feel without screwing up our friendship.

And yeah, don't lynch Zathras - on further thought it was probably just a mistake by Jow.

Fun fact: You can call me a lurker all you want but I've posted more than several players. D:<

Unvote.

Ahahaha.  Waffling around now.  Yeah, you're scum and have thrown in the towel.

Dude.  Stop.

Dude.  Chill.
I used that phrase since I remembered seeing it earlier.  I said Pandar was waffling, then agreed with whoever had said he had thrown in the towel.  That person happened to be you.  It isn't parroting because the point of that post was to point out the waffling, and just overall patheticness of his post.

Zathras: If you don't prove to us that you're town, then I'm going to assume you're scum.  So please make sure you do something to prove that you are town, otherwise we may end up lynching you.

[webadict]

First of all, Pandarsenic is definitely scum.

Secondly, I was at home this weekend. I didn't have any internet access. Well, I had a phone, but no. Sorry.

Now, as for Pandarsenic, he's definitely scum. He hasn't acknowledged the block, which he knew he was, until Zathras said that there was a block and no dopp kill.

As for Zathras, he's probably an Operative or an Exterminator. Look back at Paranormal 10 for a Stun Bomb and it shows that the player is paralyzed. That means that no matter if they're held by a Psychic Warden or a Stun object, they CANNOT MOVE. That means that either Pandarsenic is lying about there being no chains (He's lying because he shouldn't have been able to move, period.), or Zathras didn't actually get chains in his description (He's lying because he didn't bring this up when the Day started, which any Town-aligned player would've.).

Pandarsenic has shut down since being called out by Zathras, and he's not going to come back and make any good points now. This is typical of him in games. Just look at Vengeful 4.

Zathras didn't bring this up at the beginning of the day. This means he's the Operative. The Exterminator wouldn't try to get Pandarsenic lynched by saying he stunned him, because it'd be too risky. However, the Operative has 2 Small Techs and a Medium Tech now to fill with, yes, Stun Orbs and another low class Tech.

Look back at Zathras. He's made several mentions to lurkers and gone after them. He's even gone so far as to use the LurkerTracker several times in order to back up his calling them out. Yes, Janus, they do need to play, but he's gone solely after them using their lurking as an excuse.

They're both scum. They just had the unfortunate experience of exposing each other.

If Zathras wants to block someone, he needs to block a specific person. I don't care what he says. Otherwise, he could say he blocked the Exterminator, and the Exterminator could confirm it. I'd say block Janus, since he's more than likely a Mad Scientist, if everyone agrees.

[Toaster]

Jim:

Puppet, Web, Ottofar, Mish:  Please state your opinion on the Pandar/Zath affair.

Since I've been going on about it, I'll ask you: Do you think any of those players' silence about PandarsenicZathrasgate is scummy?

Toaster's #1 Scumtell: Repeatedly promising "more later" without ever delivering.

MBP: He's riding #1 hard right now, so his silence in general is scummy.

Web:  I was going to say that Web has been just acting weird all game and I had no solid read on him.  I got the new reply warning when hitting quote, so now I will say that his read on the situation looks solid enough.  Summary: no.

Ottofar:  I can't read him.  His lack of content in general is somewhat scummy, but I've also noticed that level of play in town Ottofar.  It does seem extra weak this game, so final verdict is: a little.

Mish:  I had to check his profile, but he hasn't been on the forum since early Friday morning.  I'll have to give him a pass for that- no telling if he's even still playing.

Argembarger:

Dude.  Stop.

This is like the second or third time this has happened. Do you think Kamina is doing it on purpose at this point? I find it kind of funny actually. Both ha-ha funny and suspicious funny. But the suspicious funny is kind of a stretch, I think.

This one seems more coincidental than the first two.  The first time I pointed it out, I was honestly more concerned about the repeated ideas than the repeated words.

Zath:  I'm in favor of randomly picking one of the volunteers to block.

[JanusTwoface]

Question: given Pandar's own admission twice, Leafsnail's curious confirmation, Meph's statement about Jokerman's flavour, and the bolded parts of P16 action PMs I highlighted (which included dizziness and sleep), do people still doubt I'm a warden? Because "block me just to prove you're not an alien" is rather useless if people no longer think that I'm one, yes?

We know (or at least are rather sure) there's an Exterminator about. If that weren't the case, I wouldn't believe it. But it is. So it's a good chance.

In any case, we'll see. I do think attempting to block scum would be more useful than saving my own neck, but I will not make my choice until the day ends, and I won't reveal it until tomorrow, if I survive the night.

This is a really bad idea. The whole point of knowing who you are going to block before it happens is so that we know you are't lying. If you are scum (either an Exterminator with an Operative or a Dopp), you could just as easily have one of your scum buddies lie for you. Not that that's not a possibility anyways, but at least saying what you're going to do beforehand helps.

Revealing it in the thread probably gives the dopps too much information, but this is an open PM game.  At the very least, let someone (who you trust (yes, I realize this is Mafia, but there has to be someone)) know before the day ends who you're going to block via PM. They don't even have to reveal anything until tomorrow. Just let them know now, so we have a timestamped PM quote to verify it (yes, you can fake them but it will help)

In other things: JTF, I find your claim of Mad Scientist surprising, and your killing Org uncool. He was being useful, man! Not playing his useless derping game as usual, but posting paragraphs! If we add your unconcern about offing a townie (even after he proved useful), your suspiciously clean nose, your delay in voting Pandar until he was a lost cause (yeah, weekend, whatever), and your volunteering to be blocked, I think you are Pandar's scumbuddy. You are OK with lynching him now that he can't be saved, but if you convince me to block you the dopps can assign the night kill to someone else and hit for sure, yes? Last night, the dopp team could have agreed "Pandar, you do the NK; JTF, you use your bot on Org. We off two townies in one shot."

No. He was playing his general useless game. He had about 3 posts the entire game that I would consider useful (I went back and checked) and that's a bit of a stretch. Once I unvoted him for it he went back to mostly being useless. Still think I made the right choice, although it's unfortunate that he turned out town.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
KaminaSquirtle: Ottofar
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Argembarger, Mish
Pandarsenic: JanusTwoface, Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, Leafsnail, Mr.Person, Toaster, Zathras, webadict



Day ends ~5pm Pacific Today

To answer some questions:
   1) Jokerman sent out a bunch of PMs before I had a chance to review them. So my statement stands. He did a good job, but don't look for consistency with previous games for PMs for Night 1. It's not assured.
   2) Roleblocked characters, regardless of source, will know that they have been roleblocked whether they have night actions or not.