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[Zathras]

Goooood Morning Vietnam!

What's this? Movement on the eastern front? I'll have some words about it no doubt! But first, since I woke up to this:

Lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers.
You say lurking isn't detrimental to scum, then make all of your FoSes/Votes based on lurking.
Don't do a Zathras, please?

On lynching lurkers: I say do it if we have no other leads.  Right now we have leads all over the place.  We have people to lynch before lurkers.  We shouldn't give them a free pass, but I don't think they would be a good lynch right now.

Yes, one way or another either Pandar or I are hanging today, and that's as it should be. But we MUST, always, pursue the lurkers. Not instead of others, but in addition to. Hunt them to their cave, hound them out, and bark and bite at them. Lurkers are the bane of our existence, and must be called to account for their actions or lack thereof. Sure, they won't hang today, and it's a perfectly good question to ask them their opinion of what has transpired, but don't lash at those who lash at them. They do so for your benefit. A lurky game is a failed game; a game where scum lurk to victory is not a satisfying one, even for them; a lurky player is always a scummy player. Yell at them until they come! and if they don't, like Mish, and webadict, and MBP, hang them (eventually); and if they do, but with with active-lurking lame posts, like Ottofar or Pandar, hang them too!


Sorry, just had to interject. More reasoned summarised account on the whole Pandar-blocking thing will come later today, but I was working on the new LurkerTracker (coming up, but won't include these two posts) while I saw this, so I had to respond.


PS: Meph: Given the relative volume of other posters, and that I'm not likely to survive to tomorrow anyway, I withdraw my replacement request for now. If Day Three comes, and I'm still busy (and alive), we'll talk, but in the mean time, it seems that one half-thought post per day is par for the course these days.... shame, but I'll ride the mediocrity train if you let me.

[Mephansteras]

The Whiteboard
KaminaSquirtle: Ottofar
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Mish
Ottofar: webadict
Pandarsenic: JanusTwoface, Jim Groovester, KaminaSquirtle, Leafsnail, Mr.Person, Toaster, Zathras
Zathras: Pandarsenic


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

[KaminaSquirtle]

Yes, one way or another either Pandar or I are hanging today, and that's as it should be. But we MUST, always, pursue the lurkers. Not instead of others, but in addition to. Hunt them to their cave, hound them out, and bark and bite at them. Lurkers are the bane of our existence, and must be called to account for their actions or lack thereof. Sure, they won't hang today, and it's a perfectly good question to ask them their opinion of what has transpired, but don't lash at those who lash at them. They do so for your benefit. A lurky game is a failed game; a game where scum lurk to victory is not a satisfying one, even for them; a lurky player is always a scummy player. Yell at them until they come! and if they don't, like Mish, and webadict, and MBP, hang them (eventually); and if they do, but with with active-lurking lame posts, like Ottofar or Pandar, hang them too!

The issue isn't attacking lurkers, it is attacking lukers and no one else.  It was his first real post in his first game, so I'm going to give him slack for that.  However, I will point it out.  It isn't enough to warrant even a FoS, but I felt it was enough for a post.

Also, pressure.  I want to get a read on him.

Zathras: Would you be willing to go through with blocking someone town agrees on you to block to prove your innocence?  If not, you'd better have a damn good reason not to.

[Argembarger]

Lol, wat?
My computer just BSOD'd.
First time ever.
All I was doing was posting a reply to Kamina and listening to some Homestuck muzak.
Is... is this normal? Is Mafia cursed?

Now I have to retype this; goody.

Lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers lurkers.
You say lurking isn't detrimental to scum, then make all of your FoSes/Votes based on lurking.
Don't do a Zathras, please?

On lynching lurkers: I say do it if we have no other leads.  Right now we have leads all over the place.  We have people to lynch before lurkers.  We shouldn't give them a free pass, but I don't think they would be a good lynch right now.

I see no contradictions there. Lurking is good for scum and bad for town, generally, right? So what's wrong with voting/FoSing lurkers? At worst, it gets them prodded, or gets them to participate/replace, and at best, it reveals scum hiding in the shadows.

And yeah, we do have people to lynch before lurkers; but it looks like the town is doing just that. Lynching. I see a massive horn-pile of votes over there for Pandar, and plenty of suspicion elsewhere, but MPH and Mish are getting off relatively easy, and I don't like it.

It's not like voting Pandar is going to hammer him.  You seem to be glossing over this entire Zathras Pandarsenic thing.  I don't like it.  It's still this lurker stuff.

What are your views on Pandar/Zathras?  How could Pandar defend himself well enough to convince you of him not being scum?

Well, according to da rulez, the day ends when everyone has voted, right? So wherever I place my vote, it progresses towards Pandar getting hammered. So why should I waste my vote by throwing it on the huge pile of foregone conclusions when I can toss it at some lurkers and try to force them out of their hidey-holes?

I didn't really mention the whole Zathras-Pandarsenic situation because it seems like it's already been gone over with a microscope, tweezers and a steady hand. Zathras can potentially prove his role, Pandar has yet to prove anything or contribute. They both seem kind of scummy, one of them is getting lynched today. How shall I add to that? Other than my n00bish opinion, all the facts seem to be out on the table.

How can Pandar defend himself well enough to convince me that he isn't scum? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be a natural Mafia expert

But he seems guilty of the same thing that I suspect MBP and Mish of: Lurking and not contributing. The only difference here is that the entire town is going after Pandar at this point.

I'll just attack the lurkers I can see who are getting by without too much fuss, in the meantime.

Oh, uh, noticing the whiteboard I thought I definitely voted for MBP in my post, but...

vote MPB

[Zathras]

And now, a message from our sponsors:

Will you be ready? It's that time, she needs a man that can find the lurkers.
Are you that man? Of course you are! You have the lurkertracker with you!
LurkerTracker^®

Argembarger has posted 9 times; the last on: 2010/11/21 02:14, 8 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]
Criptfeind: dead, town medium has posted 28 times; the last on: 2010/11/17 18:26, 88 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28]
JanusTwoface has posted 35 times; the last on: 2010/11/19 13:28, 45 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35]
Jim Groovester has posted 70 times; the last on: 2010/11/21 04:01, 7 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46][47][48][49][50][51][52][53][54][55][56][57][58][59][60][61][62][63][64][65][66][67][68][69][70]
Jokerman-EXE has posted 7 times; the last on: 2010/11/20 15:44, 19 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]
KaminaSquirtle has posted 60 times; the last on: 2010/11/20 23:39, 11 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46][47][48][49][50][51][52][53][54][55][56][57][58][59][60]
Leafsnail has posted 20 times; the last on: 2010/11/20 23:23, 11 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20]
Mephansteras has posted 21 times; the last on: 2010/11/20 13:42, 21 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21]
Mish has posted 15 times; the last on: 2010/11/18 22:29, 60 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]
Mr.Person has posted 16 times; the last on: 2010/11/21 00:28, 10 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]
Mysteriousbluepuppet has posted 9 times; the last on: 2010/11/18 10:20, 72 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]
Nonplayer has posted 2 times; the last on: 2010/11/10 23:21, 251 hours ago. Posts: [1][2]
Org: dead, town medium has posted 18 times; the last on: 2010/11/12 20:21, 206 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18]
Ottofar has posted 12 times; the last on: 2010/11/21 03:50, 7 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]The LurkerTracker^® Corporation is surprised at the 40kb limit for forum posts; P-Z and aditional points will be covered in subsequent post.

[Zathras]

LurkerTracker, Continued

Pandarsenic has posted 26 times; the last on: 2010/11/20 12:01, 23 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26]
SHAD0Wdump: dead, town telepath has posted 48 times; the last on: 2010/11/17 18:15, 88 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45][46][47][48]
Toaster has posted 23 times; the last on: 2010/11/20 22:27, 12 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23]
Zathras has posted 32 times; the last on: 2010/11/20 03:55, 31 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32]
webadict has posted 22 times; the last on: 2010/11/18 20:01, 63 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22]
Replacements considered: Criptfeind: dead, town medium; Eduren => Argembarger; Org: dead, town medium; SHAD0Wdump: dead, town telepath; Solifuge => Mish; ToonyMan => Nonplayer

This was the new and improved Lurker Tracker, now with DreathplacementTracking^®, letting you know who the new guys on the block are, and which corpses have now hit the pavement. Another one bites the dust, for you! Accept no imitations, demand the genuine LurkerTracker Today!

[Leafsnail]

So... I'm bussing three of my teammates now?

No. You are bussing one of your teammates. The guy who still hasn't posted anything at all about Pandarsenic and the guy who blatantly chainsaw defended him are not scum.

Uhuh.  Your logic is... interesting?  Or should I say completely fucking retarded?

You seriously had nothing to say while this was happening? You seemed pretty damn interested to go after JTF and KaminaSquirtle earlier in the day, and suddenly you're not interested in the slightest about a possible fakeclaim?

Procrastination is not a scumtell, it's just a personality tell.  I often wait until I'm about to go to bed to post ("Meh, I'll respond a little later") in the same way I often wait to do my homework at the last minute (not something I'd recommend >.>).

[Argembarger]

Oh, p.s. to everyone, even though this is my first game just treat me like you would anyone else.

It bothers me when people go easy on me in games just because I'm new. A trial by fire is much more effective for my skill than a trial by kittens and bunnies.

[Pandarsenic]

Whoo, managed to tell the girl I'm derp for how I feel without screwing up our friendship.

And yeah, don't lynch Zathras - on further thought it was probably just a mistake by Jow.

Fun fact: You can call me a lurker all you want but I've posted more than several players. D:<

Unvote.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Lol, wat?
My computer just BSOD'd.
First time ever.
All I was doing was posting a reply to Kamina and listening to some Homestuck muzak.
Is... is this normal? Is Mafia cursed?

Now I have to retype this; goody.

Yep, every time you write a long post, something happens to make it disappear.  It happened to me an unreal amount of times in the last BM.

I see no contradictions there. Lurking is good for scum and bad for town, generally, right? So what's wrong with voting/FoSing lurkers? At worst, it gets them prodded, or gets them to participate/replace, and at best, it reveals scum hiding in the shadows.

And yeah, we do have people to lynch before lurkers; but it looks like the town is doing just that. Lynching. I see a massive horn-pile of votes over there for Pandar, and plenty of suspicion elsewhere, but MPH and Mish are getting off relatively easy, and I don't like it.

But everyone always points out lurkers.  You voted them yourself.  So lurking doesn't really help scum, does it?  It doesn't help anyone.  My issue was with you saying it wouldn't hurt scum.  But if one of the lurkers is scum, you just hurt them.

We can get back to them when we have our top suspects lynched.

Well, according to da rulez, the day ends when everyone has voted, right? So wherever I place my vote, it progresses towards Pandar getting hammered. So why should I waste my vote by throwing it on the huge pile of foregone conclusions when I can toss it at some lurkers and try to force them out of their hidey-holes?

Nope.  Day ends at a specified time, irregardless of who voted when.
But Pandar is getting lynched anyway, as you pointed out.  I just wanted to make sure you won't avoiding him to avoid bussing.  That seems unlikely now.
I guess I'm fine with you voting lurkers now, I just to see more than lurkers from you in the future.

How can Pandar defend himself well enough to convince me that he isn't scum? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be a natural Mafia expert

But he seems guilty of the same thing that I suspect MBP and Mish of: Lurking and not contributing. The only difference here is that the entire town is going after Pandar at this point.

I'll just attack the lurkers I can see who are getting by without too much fuss, in the meantime.

Oh, uh, noticing the whiteboard I thought I definitely voted for MBP in my post, but...

vote MPB

My point is he can't.  So he should be lynched.  End of story.

Pandar has more on him than lurking though.  He was rbed the night dopps didn't kill.  That sounds like evidence to me, especially combined with all the lurking.

You did vote him, I guess Meph just missed it.

So... I'm bussing three of my teammates now?

No. You are bussing one of your teammates. The guy who still hasn't posted anything at all about Pandarsenic and the guy who blatantly chainsaw defended him are not scum.

Uhuh.  Your logic is... interesting?  Or should I say completely fucking retarded?

You don't need to post something about someone to chainsaw defend them.

Whoo, managed to tell the girl I'm derp for how I feel without screwing up our friendship.

And yeah, don't lynch Zathras - on further thought it was probably just a mistake by Jow.

Fun fact: You can call me a lurker all you want but I've posted more than several players. D:<

Unvote.

Ahahaha.  Waffling around now.  Yeah, you're scum and have thrown in the towel.

Mish has posted 15 times; the last on: 2010/11/18 22:29, 60 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]

Mysteriousbluepuppet has posted 9 times; the last on: 2010/11/18 10:20, 72 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]

webadict has posted 22 times; the last on: 2010/11/18 20:01, 63 hours ago. Posts: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Argembarger]

Days will last for 48 hours or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).

I read that as "once everyone has cast a vote, the day insta-ends". Ah well, whatever.


Nice defense there Pandar, you're a natural lawyer...
Yeah, scum is surely dying tonight.

One thing that bothers me is that everyone that died D1/N1 was human, and a lot of people died. I'm not too familiar with the ratios needed for MyLo/LyLo, but this seems kind of bad. Can someone explain the situation for me? It kind of feels like we've already lost, especially if there's like 3 aliens or something crazy like that. Are we already outnumbered? Sorry for the noobquestions.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Well, if there's no non-exterminator hostile aliens, then we have 4 dopps and 8 humans and the exterminator left.  Not too bad.  It gets worse with more enemy aliens, though.
All we know is that there are 13 total players left, 4 of which are dopp and of which is an exterminator.  We don't know about any other anti-town third parties, but I do know that if they exist they are also anti scum.  The exterminator may also kill scum.  There could also be powerful town power roles too.

Remember if dopps get too powerful, then third parties will have to kill them instead of town so they don't win.

We still have plenty of chance left.

[Jim Groovester]

So... I'm bussing three of my teammates now?

No. You are bussing one of your teammates. The guy who still hasn't posted anything at all about Pandarsenic and the guy who blatantly chainsaw defended him are not scum.

Uhuh.  Your logic is... interesting?  Or should I say completely fucking retarded?

Argument fail. JTF hasn't been online to post about it. And if you're going to use my line against you against him, I'm going to point out that webadict has done the exact same thing as you. He's even online right now, and there's not a thing coming from him. Peas in a pod, the three of you.

KaminaSquirtle is active and interested in finding scum. You are not. He is town, you are scum.

You seriously had nothing to say while this was happening? You seemed pretty damn interested to go after JTF and KaminaSquirtle earlier in the day, and suddenly you're not interested in the slightest about a possible fakeclaim?

Procrastination is not a scumtell, it's just a personality tell.  I often wait until I'm about to go to bed to post ("Meh, I'll respond a little later") in the same way I often wait to do my homework at the last minute (not something I'd recommend >.>).

I don't believe you. You didn't procrastinate to throw crap at JTF and KaminaSquirtle when the opportunity arose. Your explanation is inconsistent with how you have acted.

I didn't really mention the whole Zathras-Pandarsenic situation because it seems like it's already been gone over with a microscope, tweezers and a steady hand. Zathras can potentially prove his role, Pandar has yet to prove anything or contribute. They both seem kind of scummy, one of them is getting lynched today. How shall I add to that? Other than my n00bish opinion, all the facts seem to be out on the table.

How can Pandar defend himself well enough to convince me that he isn't scum? If I knew the answer to that, I'd be a natural Mafia expert

But he seems guilty of the same thing that I suspect MBP and Mish of: Lurking and not contributing. The only difference here is that the entire town is going after Pandar at this point.

Pandarsenic is guilty of a lot more than just lurking and not contributing. Zathras claimed to have blocked him last night, and there was no dopp night kill.

That's pretty potent evidence that Pandarsenic is scum.

Oh, p.s. to everyone, even though this is my first game just treat me like you would anyone else.

It bothers me when people go easy on me in games just because I'm new. A trial by fire is much more effective for my skill than a trial by kittens and bunnies.

I will be more than happy to oblige your request.

[KaminaSquirtle]

So... I'm bussing three of my teammates now?

No. You are bussing one of your teammates. The guy who still hasn't posted anything at all about Pandarsenic and the guy who blatantly chainsaw defended him are not scum.

Uhuh.  Your logic is... interesting?  Or should I say completely fucking retarded?

Read this wrong.  That's what I get for reading posts quickly.
I thought Jim was accusing you of not saying anything about Pandar and chainsaw defending him, not you inserting stuff.
Regardless, you're just grasping at straws and making shit up now.  I was in no way chainsaw defending Pandar.  I mentioned multiple times I thought he was scum.

Seriously, man, you're making quite obvious now you just want me lynched, regardless of whether I'm scum or town.

[Leafsnail]

Argument fail. JTF hasn't been online to post about it.

Which makes him town...?

And if you're going to use my line against you against him, I'm going to point out that webadict has done the exact same thing as you. He's even online right now, and there's not a thing coming from him. Peas in a pod, the three of you.

Jesus, Jim, have you hit your head against something recently?  Like, really hard?

KaminaSquirtle is active and interested in finding scum. You are not. He is town, you are scum.

Seriously?  The guy who defends Pandarsenic until the last possible moment then "Oh wait lol he needs to get lynched" and who was and is dropping blatant newbscum tells... is town?

Fucking hell.

I don't believe you. You didn't procrastinate to throw crap at JTF and KaminaSquirtle when the opportunity arose. Your explanation is inconsistent with how you have acted.

It's weird you should say this, because I did.  For instance, I made this post at a bit past midnight, and this one at 3am.  In other words, as late as possible... so procrastinating.

Regardless, you're just grasping at straws and making shit up now.  I was in no way chainsaw defending Pandar.  I mentioned multiple times I thought he was scum.

Definition of chainsaw defence: attacking someone's attackers in order to try and lessen the chance of them being lynched, while at the same time remaining disconnected from them.

In this case, you also did as much as you could to press a Zathras lynch, blindly following (buddying?) Jim.  You seem to be saying "Pandarsenic is a dopp, but we should ignore him".  Oh, and the whole operativelol  deal (presumably to try and get rid of a strong town PR).

Seriously, man, you're making quite obvious now you just want me lynched, regardless of whether I'm scum or town.

I just want you lynched, BECAUSE you're scum, and have been ridiculously obvious for ages.