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Author Topic: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Over - Dark Sorcerers Win!]  (Read 49831 times)

Eduren

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #195 on: October 31, 2010, 02:24:30 pm »

BULLSHIT
Were you born this stupid, or did you play too close to the power plant when you were a kid?

Your biggest reason to vote Jim is that he is defending himself and attacking others? That he is being aggressive even? Since when does aggressiveness even come close to being scummy?

Find some valid reasons to vote people (i.e. not bullshit, and not just parroting others thoughts), and vote them.

Ok i never said Bullshit in any of my post Zathras of Jim said that, but if that quote is false then you made a error.
IF however that quote is not a mistake then i see you really like to edit posts and create fake information, so Eduren did you do that on purpose or mistake?
I'm sorry if I confoosed you. When I say bullshit, I meant YOUR ENTIRE LAST POST, you know, the one that I seemed to be talking about?

PPE: Jim: IronyOwl is scum for two reasons, his actions Day 1, and his actions Day 2.

D1: He doesn't use his vote like a townie might, instead he forgets about it and solely uses FoSes to cast suspicion. I believe that he wasn't showing any aggression and that any attempts at finding scum were simply fake.

D2: After realizing that I'm not going to drop my accusations, he goes full out OMGUS. He claims in multiple places that all this is about me protecting Mr.Person, dismissing my accusations outright and deflecting onto me by calling me a hypocrite.
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Jetsquirrel

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #196 on: October 31, 2010, 02:26:56 pm »

oh, and so i just deleted a big lump of text containing all of my posts.....   :-\

Jim Groovester

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #197 on: October 31, 2010, 02:32:01 pm »

PPE: Jim: IronyOwl is scum for two reasons, his actions Day 1, and his actions Day 2.

Gotcha, thanks. Those are fairly credible reasons.
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Eduren

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #198 on: October 31, 2010, 02:38:26 pm »

PPE: Jim: IronyOwl is scum for two reasons, his actions Day 1, and his actions Day 2.

Gotcha, thanks. Those are fairly credible reasons.
You call them credible, but do you find them persuasive?
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #199 on: October 31, 2010, 02:50:11 pm »

I do, but I want to hear IronyOwl's response.

The both of you have been pretty persuasive about each other.
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Zathras

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #200 on: October 31, 2010, 04:45:16 pm »

Criptfeind shit.
Creative storytelling. Since you wrote a limerick about it the buddying was obviously part of the reason you suspected me.
It should be obvious that whatever scumtells you think Criptfeind dropped that implicate me are completely null. You seem to have completely ignored this. This is not very good scumhunting methodology.

Bullshit. The story is there, in my cited posts. You being forgetful is one thing, now you're actively lying, after evidently having reread them. That's a wilful lie, and we know what liars are: scum.

a) He seemed to buddy you by agreeing with your cockamamie plan. I point this out in that very post to which you refer.

b) His buddying would implicate him, not you, and he dropped it when confronted with evidence. All his other tells were his alone. His towniehood shields you none. Nothing he did implicated you, you implicated yourself without his help.

c) Reading the frickin' posts is part of good scumhunting methodology. Your failure to do that tells me you are just pretending to scumhunt, using volume in place of reason to appear townie. Your "hunting" methodology is disingenuous and scummy.


Quote from: jim
The fucking goddamn plan.
I don't care about this shit anymore. I don't care if people don't like my ideas but I will throw fury if I think people dismiss them without understanding them. If everybody had agreed to the plan and went along with it instead of be useless fuckers we would know what the scum school was. Whatever advantages that were given to the scum would be irrelevant to avoiding giving them again in the future. That was the ultimate point. This is a bad plan to implement as scum, because if successful, the town would know what school not to support. You would think I would have thought of this if I were scum.

I'll address the four bolded points:

a) We know (or should, given the evidence) what school is scum. If townies had gone along, the evidence would be muddied by their support. Say we'd gone along, and this morning red had turned up with three supporters, black with two. How would you point out which was the scum? If town had chosen randomly from two, a difference of one would not be decisive. As it is, a difference of one now is quite telling. As I point out elsewhere, even if both black and red were town, and white scum, all they'd need to do to foil your plan was to support "none" or a town one. How would you have found them out then?

b) How do you know the scum advantages would be irrelevant? Do you know the 3-supporter mechanic? What if three supporters would have given them two night kills? Or two inspects? Would that have been irrelevant? Hardly.

c) As I've shown, it's a good plan for scum to implement, as investigative results would have been muddied, and their power greatly increase. It's hard to believe you still don't get that, in the face of ample evidence. Your covering your ass is an alternative, viable hypothesis.

d) I have very low expectations on your ability to think things through. Scum or not, your analysis powers are minimal and your stubbornness exceeds your common sense.


Quote from: jim
Either/or lynch shit.
Haven't you been giving me shit all game about supporting a fucking goddamn plan? Even calling me scum for it? Isn't that the only reason you're calling me scum? It's a retarded plan. Don't do it. See my point about doing the scum's job for them for further reference.

Unlike you, I'm willing to consider alternatives and even abandon the plan if evidence compels it. However, for now, it seems good and doable. I consider you scum and call for your lynching. Vehemently. The either/or aspect arises only if people independently decide to find me scummy for finding you scummy. If they find me scummy enough, they should hang me, yes? Your objections are mostly in your mind, dude.


You do make a good point regarding bringing Org back into the light.
Org: Who are your top three scumpicks for now? What's your read on the IronyOwl/Eduren spat?

And while we're here: Person! Your lurking is not helping. Get involved. Did you answer Irony's question yesterday? Who are your scumpicks? Your lurking helps scum, are you doing it on purpose?

I'll catch up with the rest of the posts shortly.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #201 on: October 31, 2010, 04:57:53 pm »

You will be proven wrong and I am going to rub it in your face. With a limerick.

It's gratifying to know that attempting to discuss things with you was actually a pointless waste of time like I had previously thought, but don't say I didn't try.
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Zathras

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #202 on: October 31, 2010, 04:58:55 pm »

Can I get spoiled spec? I think I have got two of the scum.
Time to be laughably rebuttled.

Edit: Oh wait, if the power roles are anything like mine then never mind.

Criptfeind, get the fuck out. That's more than a bah post, let alone the editing. I feel badly for pointing this out, as it will likely get you in trouble, but it seems to be Town's only chance (sorry man): dudes! Cript has let it slip that enough supporters should be able to trigger a resurrection. Now more than ever, don't let the day expire without sending in your support. You know which school I believe to be the town's, but make your own minds up. "None" is not a town-friendly option!
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Zathras

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #203 on: October 31, 2010, 05:20:03 pm »

Aggression is a town tell. Passivity is a scum tell. I can not be scum if I am aggressively pursuing targets and defending myself against suspicion. You have mistaken a town tell for a scum tell.
While this is essentially true, scum know this, so they have the ability to be aggressive to seem town (I'm dropping towntells! I can't be scum!). I say you are scum, and your aggressiveness is a screen to seem town. That your actual scumhunting (other than volume) is substandard, however, could be the case regardless of your alignment.

It would be a mistake for people to assume you are town just because you are aggressive.


Quote from: jim
It is reasonable to assume that I would want to avoid my lynch. Thus I am taking steps to stop it.
Generally, trying to avoid one's lynch is a scumtell, and you should be tasked for it. On the other hand, it's mylo (or lylo), so an exception can be made in this case. In general, though, trying not to be lynched is a scumtell.


Quote from: jim
I did have a good reason. I said I wanted to see you rot with a rope around your neck.
Does that seem like a good reason to you? It does to me.
Bloodlust is not a good reason. You vote people because you find them scummy and to help town, not just to see them hang. Do you have any actual good reasons, or is it just desire to see anyone hang?


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Jim Groovester

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #204 on: October 31, 2010, 05:47:47 pm »

I want him to fucking rot on a rope because I think he's the worst sort of noob scum who because of his inexperience can get away with dropping scum tells like mad.

The 'bloodlust' is an expression of the intensity of my suspicion.

If I remember correctly you said you thought he was town. What reasons do you have for thinking that?

While this is essentially true, scum know this, so they have the ability to be aggressive to seem town (I'm dropping towntells! I can't be scum!). I say you are scum, and your aggressiveness is a screen to seem town. That your actual scumhunting (other than volume) is substandard, however, could be the case regardless of your alignment.

. . .

It would be a mistake for people to assume you are town just because you are aggressive.

So I'm scummy because I'm doing town things.

Well, fuck me, what am I supposed to do about that? I can't stop doing town things because that would be *gasp* scummy.

Generally, trying to avoid one's lynch is a scumtell, and you should be tasked for it. On the other hand, it's mylo (or lylo), so an exception can be made in this case. In general, though, trying not to be lynched is a scumtell.

Normally I would agree with you but I'm in the lead with votes (I know this situation isn't dire but I'm trying to change it well ahead of the deadline) because you're tunneling on me like crazy and Jetsquirrel is an idiot noob scum. It's a waste for me to hang to sate your ego.

MOD: Votecount? I think the only thing's that changed is that Mr. Person voted Org but they're still handy to have around.
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JanusTwoface

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #205 on: October 31, 2010, 06:22:27 pm »

Current Vote Count

Day ends: 5 pm EST; 3 Nov 2010

Apprentices should send me a PM with the school they plan to assist by the end of the day.
Assists can be changed via PM until the day ends.



Jim Groovester (2) - Jetsquirrel, Zathras
Eduren (1) - IronyOwl
IronyOwl (1) - Eduren
Jetsquirrel (1) - Jim Groovester
Org (1) - Mr.Person
Mr.Person (0) -
Zathras (0) -

Not Voting: Org



Let me know if I missed anything.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #206 on: October 31, 2010, 07:44:56 pm »

So I was your most suspicious target yesterday? Why did you wait until today to do anything about it?
I didn't. I FoS'd and prodded you.
So? If I was the scummiest person yesterday why didn't you VOTE me. You were just casting suspicion and not pushing or scumhunting. That's why you're scum.
What is your obsession with that vote? Your chainsaw was too obvious, so now you've got to keep making a big deal of it? I didn't vote you because I intended to pressure you with questions, so I kept the pressure vote on Person to see if he'd respond.

As for your claim that I was just casting suspicion: Bullshit. Especially bullshit relative to your own attempts, but we've established you don't see an issue with hypocrisy.

And stating that I am being hypocritical is purely deflection. It does not refute my accusations.
Then I'll refute them more directly. I was not doing nothing Day 1; I was poking Criptfeind to figure out why he wasn't answering my questions properly. I don't feel leaving my vote on Person was "doing nothing with it" because I still wanted an answer out of him, and I wasn't sure enough of Criptfeind to vote him; besides which, the pressure I had was getting answers.

Furthermore, the fact that the best scumtell you've got on someone is something numerous people, yourself included, are even guiltier of makes me think that's not your real reason, since if it was you'd be explaining yourself and questioning them all. Instead, you've responded with "this isn't about me" and ignored questions regarding anyone else. You are scum who didn't like me voting Mr.Person.
Thanks you very much. It doesn't make your deflection any less scummy though.
IRONY ALERT!
Note that this is, in fact, a deflection. You claim I'm scummy for not doing anything, but your response to doing even less is "You're deflecting."

And I feel that your vote was doing nothing. First lets examine the rationale you gave me for voting Mr.Person. You claim that there is a question you want answering. Which is it? It couldn't be this one (your original reason to vote him), he had answered that very quickly. So it must be this one. Mr.Person did indeed not respond to it, but you didn't seem to care much. You didn't make it an issue, let alone mention it again until today. That's odd. You didn't care about it yesterday, but you do today! The only way I feel that this can be seen is that you had no reasons yesterday to leave your vote on Person and any reasons you claim today are fabrications.
He'd been on rather sporadically, so I figured he might get around to it. I also wasn't on for the latter part of the day, so I didn't have long to get impatient. Nonetheless, you'll notice I mentioned it only in response to your vote fetish.

Now, even if you were voting Mr.Person for the reasons that you claimed, I don't see why your vote should have been there. As you stated, I was looking like the scummiest person in the game to you. Don't you think that that warrants a vote? Don't you think that a vote on your scumpick would have been more useful than getting the answer to a question that didn't really matter?
Last time I was on, I believe you were still suspicious rather than obvscum, and I was still puzzling over Criptfeind. Furthermore, I don't consider votes to have some magical information-gathering ability, so I wasn't really concerned about you dodging common sense because I wasn't voting you.

THAT, right there ^^, is the scumtell I have on you. now, you claim that you are not the only one exhibiting this scumtell. Please, please, tell me who else is doing this. Because I can go after them for it too.
Cool. So we've established that:

-You're obsessed with votes. Specifically, leaving my vote on Mr.Person is half of the reason you're convinced I'm scum.

-You're a rampant and unabashed hypocrite. Specifically, after having done even less yourself, you feel my lack of contribution means that I'm scum.

So we've got latching onto anything you can followed by mass deflection for your own uselessness. Not scummy at all!


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Eduren

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #207 on: October 31, 2010, 08:59:48 pm »

-You're a rampant and unabashed hypocrite. Specifically, after having done even less yourself, you feel my lack of contribution means that I'm scum.
In the meantime, are you denying being a hypocrite now? You didn't seem to bother earlier.
The act of calling me a hypocrite is inherently deflection. But at the same time, I deny any hypocrisy on my part.

You claim, that by being useless myself, that it is hypocritical for me to call you useless. Where this falls apart is the fact that I am not accusing you of being useless.

This is, as I stated before, my reason for voting you (as far as Day 1 is concerned)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In this, I am not claiming your uselessness. I am claiming that you had left your vote on Mr.Person for no legitimate reason yesterday, in order to avoid really scumhunting. You consciously used FoSes to cast suspicion without having to put yourself into the spotlight.

Feel free to show me where I've declined to explain why your accusations are bullshit.
Gladly. Here you dismiss my accusations by analyzing my posting history.

And not only that, but every time you do this (which is a lot):
What is your obsession with that vote? Your chainsaw was too obvious, so now you've got to keep making a big deal of it?
You are dismissing my accusations as me just me chainsawing for Mr.Person. What you are doing is attacking my credibility in order to avoid actually refuting my accusations.



But lets take a quick look at what you have done Day 2. You have been voting me ever since I voted you today.

As far as I can tell, these are your reasons.

-You're obsessed with votes. Specifically, leaving my vote on Mr.Person is half of the reason you're convinced I'm scum.

-You're a rampant and unabashed hypocrite. Specifically, after having done even less yourself, you feel my lack of contribution means that I'm scum.
I will agree with you on the first one, half of my reasons for voting for you are your actions Day1. But why does that make me scum?

And I just showed you that my hypocrisy is just in your imagination.

So why am I scum again? You seem so convinced that I am scum, but I don't see any overwhelming evidence. All you've done today is to defend yourself and deflect onto me.
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Eduren

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #208 on: October 31, 2010, 09:05:05 pm »

I just realized that I'm an idiot and I make no sense here. There were supposed to be links in there but I forgot them.
And I feel that your vote was doing nothing. First lets examine the rationale you gave me for voting Mr.Person. You claim that there is a question you want answering. Which is it? It couldn't be this one (your original reason to vote him), he had answered that very quickly. So it must be this one. Mr.Person did indeed not respond to it, but you didn't seem to care much. You didn't make it an issue, let alone mention it again until today. That's odd. You didn't care about it yesterday, but you do today! The only way I feel that this can be seen is that you had no reasons yesterday to leave your vote on Person and any reasons you claim today are fabrications.

What I was trying to say was this (links added)
And I feel that your vote was doing nothing. First lets examine the rationale you gave me for voting Mr.Person. You claim that there is a question you want answering. Which is it? It couldn't be this one (your original reason to vote him), he had answered that very quickly. So it must be this one. Mr.Person did indeed not respond to it, but you didn't seem to care much. You didn't make it an issue, let alone mention it again until today. That's odd. You didn't care about it yesterday, but you do today! The only way I feel that this can be seen is that you had no reasons yesterday to leave your vote on Person and any reasons you claim today are fabrications.
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Jim Groovester

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Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice Mafia [Day 2 - Holy Jokerman-EXE Batman!]
« Reply #209 on: October 31, 2010, 11:56:37 pm »

What are your thoughts on Org & JetSquirrel? Both of them are lurking up a storm, and although JS has seemed townie enough to me, I may be missing something. As far as Org, I've learned to fear him when I can't hear him, though.

Zathras, since you're on right now (you should switch the setting on your profile back to showing that you're online as a courtesy to other players, you sneaky bastard), I want an answer to this question.

Why does Jetsquirrel seem town to you?

Also, you have FOSed everybody in the game with the notable exception of Jetsquirrel. Going a bit crazy there, aren't you? Why have you spared Jetsquirrel meaningless blue text?

Furthermore, you keep prodding him to participate but never really attempt to get any information out of him. Why prod him if you don't want anything out of him?

*sniff*

Something smells funny about that. Could it possibly be one scum buddy attempting to pull his dead weight scum buddy into the game so that the dead weight can avoid accusations of lurking? Something very interesting is going on here. And let's not forget the two of you are both voting me for precisely the same reasons, even so far as Jetsquirrel summarizing your arguments.

Allow me to formally suspect you, Zathras, with meaningless blue text.

Unvote Jetsquirrel for now. Silent Org, non-participating Org, and non-voting Org is scum Org.

Say something, Orgdammit, or the vote stays until I want something out of someone else.
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