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[NJW2000]

Well, lots of books will convery opinions because the writers have opinions.

But it's pretty damn irritating when you're six books in and "it's a christian allegory motherfucker Christ is lord" suddeny appears.


As opposed to Narnia, which I'm still pissed about, in which it's obviously a Christian allegory from the start (6 yr old me was dumb though) and continues through to the fucking end.
And the teenage-going-on-adult girl who's the clever one doesn't get to go to magical talking animal Plato-ish heaven with the others when the antichrist comes, because she likes lipstick and clothes rather than a fucking magical kingdom.

Screw C.S. Lewis. Screw that guy.

[EnigmaticHat]

We should make some kind of anti-Christian fantasy novel to counter it!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Love you Pullman.  It wasn't even immersion breaking until I got to the 3rd book...

[Eric Blank]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

Yes. So much.

I stopped reading c.s. lewis and h.g. wells entirely because every goddamn book is a lecture on something or other

[Rolan7]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

Well it depends how outlanding the belief is. If I was reading some book and it turned out to by shilling for the Reptilian Conspiracy, that might make for good reading. Merely normal beliefs might be boring however, they really have to dial it up to 11. e.g. a novel by an anti-vaxxer would be better if the vaccines turn you into a zombie horde.

This is hardly the same thing, but I spent some time giggling at one of those sovereign citizen sites.  An article claiming that you don't have to have a driver's license to "travel by car", just to "drive".  And if you just explain that to the police, they have no right to arrest you!

Maybe it's cruel of me, but the comments were especially amusing.  And there were a lot, mostly along the lines of "Does this still apply if I'm a minor" or "I was speeding and/or drunk, and..."
Not to mention "Uh this didn't work.  Fucking pigs, why wouldn't they listen!", which was usually followed by advice like "Did you have a license plate?  Inspection records?  Gotta get rid of those too, or you're still consenting!"
http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/how-to-drive-without-a-license/

I shouldn't have been laughing...  Some of these comments are probably real.  Pretty sure the article is.  Dangerous misinformation, and unfortunate dupes.

[TD1]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

Yes. So much.

I stopped reading c.s. lewis and h.g. wells entirely because every goddamn book is a lecture on something or other

If it's the point of the book, I don't mind - in fact, I very much so enjoyed C.S. Lewis' work and respect him greatly, despite our divergent opinions. He wrote a children's novel with the express purpose of a Christian twist, and as for Wells, his work was usually written as satire, or to highlight societal problems, for example as portrayed by the Eloi. This was their purpose - if, however, it's a fantasy novel that just shoves it at you without weaving it purposefully into the text, it is annoying.

[Reelya]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

Depends on whether the novel is at all well written.  Almost every Heinlein novel either turns into or actually is an outright tract of some sort, but it usually is in harmony with the content of the novel itself, and you don't have to agree with the politics of it to like the novel.  Case in point, Starship Troopers, although he certainly wrote worse novels that got way more tract-y.

You can sort of gauge "is this Heinlein book worth reading?" by an inverse relationship with the number of pages it contains.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

This is hardly the same thing, but I spent some time giggling at one of those sovereign citizen sites.  An article claiming that you don't have to have a driver's license to "travel by car", just to "drive".  And if you just explain that to the police, they have no right to arrest you!

Maybe it's cruel of me, but the comments were especially amusing.  And there were a lot, mostly along the lines of "Does this still apply if I'm a minor" or "I was speeding and/or drunk, and..."
Not to mention "Uh this didn't work.  Fucking pigs, why wouldn't they listen!", which was usually followed by advice like "Did you have a license plate?  Inspection records?  Gotta get rid of those too, or you're still consenting!"
http://freedom-articles.toolsforfreedom.com/how-to-drive-without-a-license/

I shouldn't have been laughing...  Some of these comments are probably real.  Pretty sure the article is.  Dangerous misinformation, and unfortunate dupes.

My favorite version of this is "World Citizenship", in which a group of people who are pretty typically the pinnacle of anti-government and anti-globalization beliefs claim renouncement of their citizenship in favor of a self-proclaimed legal classification justified through the UN Declaration of Human Rights, i.e. the UN, i.e. the ultimate government and global organization that exists.

(In truth, a lot of world citizen-types are the left-wing mirror of sovereign citizens, but I have seen crossover more than once. Pseudolaw is so great, it's like theology for people born after the sail.)

[Yoink]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

I was reading a "verse novel" (woo new phrase learned, thanks Google!) a while ago that started off really nice before doing that.
Wasn't too surprising considering the title was something vaguely religious-sounding, but it was still disappointing given that the first half of the book was actually very good and the latter was... really, really dumb. Still, I enjoyed it while it lasted. Had some really juicy verse in there, some of which was quite quote-worthy and atmospheric.   

[Karnewarrior]

There are some decent tract novels; Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality comes to mind. The litmus test for those tends to be "Does the villain make sense and is he sympathetic as more than a strawman?"

Most of the time, if you believe in a ideology enough to write a tract about it, though, you don't like trying to think like the other side because you have to be PURE.

Remember folks, Purity is a weakness. Impurity is a virtue! Alloys can be far stronger than either of their component metals added together.

[Neonivek]

Do not underestimate purity Karnewarrior. It just isn't as easy to pull off as someone who is flawed.

Purity is a lot like Happiness... In that being highly flawed and sad and depressing is an instant ticket to be considered serious and deep, regardless of actual content... While Happiness and Purity have to fight.

[ChairmanPoo]

Screw C.S. Lewis. Screw that guy.

Damn right.
Narnia is bad enough, but his other books are even worse.

[martinuzz]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

I have that with nearly all modern US produced tv series (adding family drama and male bonding issues to every imaginable genre).
It's like sitting down, thinking 'hah, a new crime series! Let's watch it', and finding out it's just another soap opera unjustly named a crime series.

[Neonivek]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

I have that with nearly all modern US produced tv series (adding family drama and male bonding issues to every imaginable genre).
It's like sitting down, thinking 'hah, a new crime series! Let's watch it', and finding out it's just another soap opera unjustly named a crime series.

I think it is personally the thing that is KILLING the quality of police procedural / law shows... The "Tract for whatever belief" part.

Because OHH BOY! do police procedural shows HATE the rule of law and petty things like warrants, just cause, and basic human rights.

[martinuzz]

For good crime series, you need to look to Scandinavia. There's one or two decent Dutch ones as well, but Danes and Swedes make the best crimis. UK also still does a decent job.
And yeah, what you said. The lack of respect for proper procedure and human rights in US crime series is appaling and worrisome.

[TempAcc]

Don't you hate it when you begin to read a novel and at some point it becomes a tract for whatever belief the author professes and wants to shove down your throat?

I have that with nearly all modern US produced tv series (adding family drama and male bonding issues to every imaginable genre).
It's like sitting down, thinking 'hah, a new crime series! Let's watch it', and finding out it's just another soap opera unjustly named a crime series.

Don't forget the magic technology of lossless video enhancement and other magical forensics, the dad figure (if the main character is young), the son/daughter figure (if the character is old) and the secks.