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[USEC_OFFICER]

You might not have a decent case, but Azure Sepulchre certainly does.

[Akigagak]

Nope, but I wasn't speaking for him, since I'm not him.

[USEC_OFFICER]

I know that. It's quite obvious.

And does that nope mean that you think Azure Sepulchre does not have a decent case?

[Azure Sepulchre]

Azure Sepulchre, might I ask why in god's name you aren't voting for me? Seriously. Didn't you read the scumhunting guide? There is no reason that you shouldn't be voting for anybody. With all the reasons that you gave for me being scum, you should be voting for me. Instead, you're sitting on your ass, saying "Oh, I can't vote for anybody, they all have real lives!" Well, guess what? We all have real lives, so that is not an excuse. Vote for somebody else who spends more time playing.

The title of this game is Beginner's Mafia, right? Which would imply it's a game for beginners, correct? Then would it be so remiss of me to presume you were simply very, very new? Fine, then. I shan't make that mistake again.

Also, WTF? How did I give the impression I'm not voting because everyone has their own lives to live? That's just, in a word, retarded. I'm not voting because I don't have any outright scum-tells, and I want to not only figure out where everyone stands so far, but I also want to see if anyone can bring up a scum-tell I haven't noticed.

Also, if you wanted to get ein to talk, asking questions would be a good idea.

Uhh, I did. And he answered. Have you even read this thread?

And budding involves "Oh, don't vote for X, he's EXCUSE." What I'm doing is "Oh, your question is stupid because REASON_WHY_QUESTION_IS_STUPID." There's a difference.

You not only claimed there was 'less than a 0.06% chance of me and Spade being scum' (pretty funny, that, considering you're calling me scum now. That's some scum-sense you've got, there) which sure as hell sounds to me like budding, but you also involved yourself in a question that was specifically directed at me and tried to answer it in my favour instead of scrutinizing what I said in return. That's buddying, right there.

I also find it surprising that you are attacking people who say that ein has a real life, and then go around and stopping voting for him because he has a real life.

...you really haven't read this thread.

I attacked kilakan because he did what you did; defended someone else who could defend himself just as well. I stopped voting for Ein, on the other hand, because he answered my question and to maintain the vote on him any longer would be pointless.

You know what? I bet that you are scum, with ein as your scum partner. If not, you clearly haven't learned anything from your last mafia games.

Then why aren't you voting for me? Christ, but you are pro at being a hypocrite. Besides which, I find it amusing that you can even make the claim that someone else seems scummy; you, the most consistently inconsistent person in this game, even if we ignore the fact that you have nothing on me. I, on the other hand, have watched you behave like a fool during RVS, barely even attempt to justify yourself, try to buddy with me and then preform a complete 180 degrees turn when I call you on it, despite the fact that I gave you the benefit of the doubt and decided to wait until everyone had made their opinions clear before I made another move.

Grats, USEC. You just got your vote.

[SirBayer]

SirBayer-You seem to enjoy stating people are scum, blatantly and take JetSquirrels reaction to hard.  Do you believe accusing and labeling people before day one to be scummy?'

Check the scum-hunting guide again. You break players. You attack them. You don't let up. It's how you play Mafia.

USEC_OFFICER, what does USEC even stand for? And who do you think is the scum right now?

United Space Exploration Council. I've made quite a large backstory on it, from the heady (and boring days) of colony ships to several hundred years after the second encounter. It's all good.

As for who is scum? Two other people have posted (Becides me and the person who isn't playing.) That isn't enough for me to tell right now.

Unvote

Spade, is this your very first mafia game? Or only the first mafia game on Bay 12?

Because I'm bored, and have no idea know idea how much mafia Spade has played.

As such, I'm going to Unvote, and ask Azure Sepulchre the same question.

Cool beans on the USEC stuff.

Wrong answer everywhere else. Very, very wrong answer.

I'll grant you on the "two-post" thing, but that's not the point of the question. Scum-hunting guide and all.

So you're deflecting my question, waffling on your vote, and pretending like RVS is a good time to jump all over the place. Yeah, you're the scum.

Deflecting your question? SirBayer, the chance of the scum being one of those two people is less then 0.06%. It would have been a deflection if I said no idea. It is not a deflection if I say that I haven't heard from 75% of the people in the game. Unless, of course, you got some piece of knowledge from the scumhunting guide that I didn't. In that case, would you be kind to share it with me? (You are completely right about the jumpiness though. [Except for the fact that I am not scum, but an idiot.])

Don't tell me odds, USEC. Odds are meaningless in Mafia. There is only scum and not-scum.

You make some good points, though. Alright. I like what I see. I like what I see in the questions even more. You're off the hook for the moment.

QUESTIONS:

SirBayer, is placing the second vote on someone bandwagoning, or do FOS count as votes in your book?

I'm not really going to accept LoneWolf's definition of a bandwagon - his definition is a good way to find a bandwagon, but it's not what a bandwagon is. A bandwagon is joined when a player thoughtlessly drops a vote, very often using no reasons or reasons other players have brought up. Occasionally they'll use legitimate (but weak) reasoning, and that's as much bullcrap as no reasons at all. Which brings me back to JetSquirrel...

Quote from: Jetsquirrel on September 20, 2010, 07:37:02 pm
You already try to blame 2 people with very little knowledge that is based on a name question and just blatantly saying that im bandwagoning usec for no reason at ALL.

Jetsquirrel, can you explain this sentence more? Perhaps to the point where I can understand it?

1. he voted for usec i think only because he didnt agree with his name
2. he wants to vote me because he that im bandwagoning USEC , which isn't true

and 3. i don't know how to explain but when the mafia game started (very late in my time) and i red some stuff and as brainless and sleepy i was i voted for Usec insteand of Doing this Usec

so Unvote Usec

Obvious scum is obvious scum.

Your defense consists of "No, what he said isn't true at all!" Okay then, buddy, explain to me precisely why your vote on USEC - which you dropped with exactly the same reasoning I used - is any more acceptable than mine. You can't. You're scum. For those who missed that:

USEC_OFFICER, what does USEC even stand for? And who do you think is the scum right now?

United Space Exploration Council. I've made quite a large backstory on it, from the heady (and boring days) of colony ships to several hundred years after the second encounter. It's all good.

As for who is scum? Two other people have posted (Becides me and the person who isn't playing.) That isn't enough for me to tell right now.

Unvote

Spade, is this your very first mafia game? Or only the first mafia game on Bay 12?

Because I'm bored, and have no idea know idea how much mafia Spade has played.

As such, I'm going to Unvote, and ask Azure Sepulchre the same question.

Cool beans on the USEC stuff.

Wrong answer everywhere else. Very, very wrong answer.

I'll grant you on the "two-post" thing, but that's not the point of the question. Scum-hunting guide and all.

So you're deflecting my question, waffling on your vote, and pretending like RVS is a good time to jump all over the place. Yeah, you're the scum.

i vote for Usec

as i find that his sudden changes of voting is quite strange

He just came and ripped his reasoning right out of the post.

AND now when he feels the pressure, he drops the vote immediately.

I'm not sure if you're not reading the game very carefully. Unvote USEC, JetSquirrel, by the by. Pressure's on now, buddy. Hope you've got a defense.

Everyone, list you FOS's and give a curt explanation why you've chosen that particular person. This'll give us a fair idea of what the RVS has told us. If anything.

Jetsquirrel currently holds my vote, for reasons I've given earlier. I was suspicious of USEC, but he reads more new than scum to me.

I also have a pinky finger of suspicion on both kilakan and SirBayer; kilakan because he leapt to the defense of Ein during an RVS of all things, and Bayer due to his frankly wild scumhunting tactics and almost completely baseless denunciations. Bayer seems to be getting results, though - admittedly after a fashion - and kilakan may have protected Ein because he, too, is new. I dunno... too many potentially new players who might not know enough and can play on that fact. This is gonna get hairy pretty damn soon. >.>

This your first game, Azure? I'm sure you've said somewhere, I've missed it. Anyway, results - yeah, see the above evidence, see the Dak scumhunting guide. You break scum. The only way to break players is with violence and great force, at least in my experience.

And as you can see, I AM turning up results.

[SirBayer]

Akigagak, missed your post - This is my play style. I'm not going to let up on newbies, that would be stupid. They'll learn faster this way anyway.

[Azure Sepulchre]

BTW, don't expect a response from me until perhaps after this day has ended. I'm off to attend a game of D&D in 20 minutes, and I need to make dinner before I do.

And no, Sir. This isn't my first forum game, but it was so long ago I've practically forgotten everything about it. I play IRC Mafia often, but that's quite a bit different from this. Like comparing blitz chess to vanilla.

I'm staying on USEC, though, no matter what. A full 180 from an attempted buddy just reeks of scum to me, especially when he tried to say there little chance of me being scum.

[Vector]

Note that you can break townies as well and turn them into a defeatist, miserable wreck.  I personally prefer to ask questions politely, make observations, then apply destructive force only when I'm pretty sure as to what I've gotten.  Fewer players hate you and it's just as effective.

[Spade]

If there was a fool in this game I'd tell everyone to unvote USEC. Why would you tell someone to vote for you? Do you want to be voted off? Or are you trying to trick us into thinking you're town?

You're calling yourself an idiot. You realise something you say will sound suspicious, yet you post it anyway. Why would you do this?

Quote from: Jetsquirrel on September 20, 2010, 07:37:02 pm
You already try to blame 2 people with very little knowledge that is based on a name question and just blatantly saying that im bandwagoning usec for no reason at ALL.

Jetsquirrel, can you explain this sentence more? Perhaps to the point where I can understand it?

1. he voted for usec i think only because he didnt agree with his name
2. he wants to vote me because he that im bandwagoning USEC , which isn't true

and 3. i don't know how to explain but when the mafia game started (very late in my time) and i red some stuff and as brainless and sleepy i was i voted for Usec insteand of Doing this Usec

so Unvote Usec

First of all, the vote had nothing to do with his name. IIRC, sir voted for him because of everything he said besides his name.
Also, I have no clue how to understand number three.
I would consider it a bandwagon. You probably saw sir's post, was worried your scum-partner might get lynched, and thought you would keep your vote(which you made in a point made by Sir) on him so you don't seem suspicious. If you're not scum I'll slap myself.

My vote remains on Jetsquirrel.

----Suspicions----
Jet - Scum #1
USEC - Scum #2
Ein - Talk more.

[Jetsquirrel]

Also Also, don't edit, Jetsquirrel.

Yeah sure

[Spade]

Also Also, don't edit, Jetsquirrel.

Yeah sure

That's ALL you have to say? Come on now.

[SirBayer]

Note that you can break townies as well and turn them into a defeatist, miserable wreck.  I personally prefer to ask questions politely, make observations, then apply destructive force only when I'm pretty sure as to what I've gotten.  Fewer players hate you and it's just as effective.

...>_>

Bayer collects enemies like trophies?

Also Also, don't edit, Jetsquirrel.

Yeah sure

Ladies and Gentlemen, a classic scumbucket.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Azure Sepulchre:

Azure Sepulchre, might I ask why in god's name you aren't voting for me? Seriously. Didn't you read the scumhunting guide? There is no reason that you shouldn't be voting for anybody. With all the reasons that you gave for me being scum, you should be voting for me. Instead, you're sitting on your ass, saying "Oh, I can't vote for anybody, they all have real lives!" Well, guess what? We all have real lives, so that is not an excuse. Vote for somebody else who spends more time playing.

The title of this game is Beginner's Mafia, right? Which would imply it's a game for beginners, correct? Then would it be so remiss of me to presume you were simply very, very new? Fine, then. I shan't make that mistake again.

Also, WTF? How did I give the impression I'm not voting because everyone has their own lives to live?

Oh, lookie what I found.

If, on the other hand, this is your roundabout way of asking why I had targeted Ein in the first place... it was both because I wanted to know what he really thought of the game, and because I had considered his position much too mysterious and enigmatic for my taste when compared to everyone elses. For the latter I still do, actually (although the vote on him has become a tad redundant at this stage: unvote), but if he's busy IRL... well. There's hardly much I can do about that, now, is there? However, if a potential scum-buddy of his is willing to leap to the rescue, however... well, that's your affair.

Notice the part at the end. The part that says "but if he's busy IRL... well. There's hardly much I can do about that, now, is there?" You know what this implies? It implies that if ein posted more, you would be able to play more. But you know what really bizzare about this? It's that you didn't vote for me, the number one on your scum list. But wait, you've given a reason why you are not voting in your next post:

That's just, in a word, retarded. I'm not voting because I don't have any outright scum-tells, and I want to not only figure out where everyone stands so far, but I also want to see if anyone can bring up a scum-tell I haven't noticed.

Where have I heard that before?

I've learned to watch for scummy tactics, like somebody who may be trying to force others against each other.
Right now I'm waiting, and watching for a tell.

How is this similar to your excuse? Well,

A. You are both not doing anything

B. You are both waiting for somebody else to do something.

That's right. Some would call what ein is doing lurking, and I'm calling what you are lurking. You are waiting for somebody else to do your scumhunting. That's both passive and scummy.

Also, if you wanted to get ein to talk, asking questions would be a good idea.

Uhh, I did. And he answered. Have you even read this thread?

More importantly, have you? Because last time I checked, ein hasn't posted here in a day. If you really wanted to get ein to talk, you would have asked ein follow up questions, instead of saying that your vote is redundant.

And budding involves "Oh, don't vote for X, he's EXCUSE." What I'm doing is "Oh, your question is stupid because REASON_WHY_QUESTION_IS_STUPID." There's a difference.

You not only claimed there was 'less than a 0.06% chance of me and Spade being scum' (pretty funny, that, considering you're calling me scum now. That's some scum-sense you've got, there) which sure as hell sounds to me like budding, but you also involved yourself in a question that was specifically directed at me and tried to answer it in my favour instead of scrutinizing what I said in return. That's buddying, right there.

Azure, Azure, Azure, you were never part of that 0.06%. (Broody and Sir Bayer was a part of that.) Of course now, that percentage is redundant, since everypost has posted something. That means that you are back up to having a 25 percent chance of being scummy.

Azure, where does it say that I can't get myself involved in a question that is directed at you? I didn't try to buddy with you at all. I was merely saying that the question was incredibly stupid, because it assumed information that you didn't know at the time. How is that buddying?

I also find it surprising that you are attacking people who say that ein has a real life, and then go around and stopping voting for him because he has a real life.

...you really haven't read this thread.

Azure, you attacked kilakan because of this quote:

Azure-Last few games I've read and played, people who begin accusing lukers the second they are off for a few hours, have all been scum.  Would you disagree that trying to point blame towards the people who seem to have lives, or nothing to say at the moment, to not be an attempt to move away from yourself or other people who are acting scummy without people pointing it out, which could lead to covering yourself and your team?

to which you replied with:

I also have a pinky finger of suspicion on both kilakan and SirBayer; kilakan because he leapt to the defense of Ein during an RVS of all things,

The only way that I could see kilakan jumping to the defence of ein was through saying that ein had a life. Oh, and guess what you said afterwards:

Still vaguely suspicious of Ein, but there's nothing really for me to go on other than the fact that he's lurking, and he's already explained why he is. Gut feeling on this one, more than anything else...

You say you have a gut feeling on ein, but you don't follow it up. Why? The best reason I could find was that you accepted his reasons of having a real life. And guess what kilakan said?

I attacked kilakan because he did what you did; defended someone else who could defend himself just as well. I stopped voting for Ein, on the other hand, because he answered my question and to maintain the vote on him any longer would be pointless.

So it would be pointless to maintain your vote on a person who gives you a gut feeling? I believe the standard opperating procedure for that case would be to SCUMHUNT. And what do you do? Nothing! You don't even keep your vote on the guy!

You know what? I bet that you are scum, with ein as your scum partner. If not, you clearly haven't learned anything from your last mafia games.

Then why aren't you voting for me?

Umm...

Because I'm bored, and have no idea know idea how much mafia Spade has played.

As such, I'm going to Unvote, and ask Azure Sepulchre the same question.

Have you even read this thread?

(Looks like I've been voting for you all along. Surprise!)

try to buddy with me and then preform a complete 180 degrees turn when I call you on it, despite the fact that I gave you the benefit of the doubt and decided to wait until everyone had made their opinions clear before I made another move.

I NEVER TRIED TO BUDDY WITH YOU!

Grats, USEC. You just got your vote.

Finally! The great Azure Sepulchre puts his money where his mouth is and votes for me! WHY THE HELL DID YOU NOT DO THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE! YOU DON'T GIVE PEOPLE THE BENIFIT OF THE DOUBT IN MAFIA, YOU SCUMHUNT THEM TILL THEY EARN THE DOUBT! And Azure Sepulchre, you haven't earned it.



Spade:

If there was a fool in this game I'd tell everyone to unvote USEC. Why would you tell someone to vote for you? Do you want to be voted off? Or are you trying to trick us into thinking you're town?

You're calling yourself an idiot. You realise something you say will sound suspicious, yet you post it anyway. Why would you do this?

I believe I made it quite clear:

USEC, now that Azure has said his piece, and you've effectly ruined your ability to be taken seriously, what's your next move?

Go into "Curse-you-all" mode, and try to get as much conversation as possible, so that the scum might make a scummy move, and get lynched in day 3.

Frankly, survival is not number 1 on my list anymore. Everybody else here looks like a better player than me, and it would hurt the town if someone else got lynched (except maybe ein or Jetsquirrel.)

If you want, I'll gladly show you some of my games which will make you happy to see me go.

[Spade]

But saying that sounds scummy.(to me)

If you're town, you shouldn't be telling people to vote yourself. It makes it sound like you're trying to convince us you're town, even though you're scum. We could use every member of town we have. Even if it just means an extra vote.

[kilakan]

kilakan, do you consider that being scum makes one aggressive, or that trying to be an effective scumhunter makes one aggressive?

I believe it to be the player's personality that is the deciding factor, there are great scum who do great by being so aggressive no one wants to disagree, and there's great townies who through aggression break the scum into making fatal slips.  Yet agression also only works against certain types of people, there are those who can laugh at a troll and not be effected, and there are people who begin freaking out and lose the game.  Where-as I prefer a question, and listen type approach, more like that of a phyciatrist, that way you find the player types and can make appropriate moves.

kilakan, did you read the posts in order? Because ein  mentioned that he had a life after Azure Sepulchre accused him of lurking. How do you think Azure Sepulchre would know about that before hand?'

Honestly, I didn't read it all in order, I missed a few, went back, and read it again, due to joining late.  But I do read everything and consider it before asking.

USEC-I am happy for you that you went and read the posts everyone put up, though filling pages with it and comments that don't make insight is not very helpful.  I would like to ask.  What are your plans if you survive to day two, do you plan on following the "Oh look over here!" approach or would you switch to a more thoughtful, or an aggressive approach?
Also what do you plan on accomplish in having everyone vote for you, maybe a goat sacrifice for the scum team, in such a way that the rest go unncticed and un-thought of for the first day, or are you simply panicking in having so many people vote for you?

Jet-squirrel Why are you attempting to state other peoples reasoning for what they do, for all you know they could just be making random guesses in an attempt to scare out scum, maybe you could take a more pro-active approach where you can?

Spade- Despite not having serious feeling about you alliance, I do however feel oddly about the way you keep telling other players to play certain ways.  Would you consider yourself a good future IC, or do you admit that you belong under the title of beginner?

I have a rather large number of suspicions at the moment, and am waiting to place a vote once I feel more strongly about one in particular.  This being a beginners game, people over-react, and get riled up, so killing off an over-reactor first day, helps no-one.