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Poll

Would you deny others the freedom to enjoy planning waste disposal?

Of course not. Freedom is great.
- 82 (31.4%)
Heavens no! I would never deny others.
- 10 (3.8%)
People should be free to enjoy what they like. I'd never oppose it.
- 29 (11.1%)
I love denying others basic rights so I can be lazy and not edit my .init file.
- 55 (21.1%)
What kind of rigged poll is this? MSNBC has fairer. Also, I am pro-filth.
- 85 (32.6%)

Total Members Voted: 260


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Author Topic: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already  (Read 58061 times)

Libelnon

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #315 on: June 09, 2010, 05:47:10 am »

I've done sewers. Admittedly on an aboveground fort, which flowed under the street and had grates in the street leading down to it. Idea being just for the aesthetics. It wouldn't be too difficult to link it into the houses, and it didn't take long to channel out a 3 wide channel and a 5 wide tunnel above it underneath the roads.
Turned out to be a great place for my trapper. Olms and rats galore down there.
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Catastrophic lolcats

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #316 on: June 09, 2010, 07:05:43 am »

As a new player I really don't see the harm in this being added at all.  Though it would make perfect sense to have it as an init setting for those that don't want it or don't want to have to worry with designing fully working sewage system. It would be nice if the whole "producing waste" task happened only when dwarfs are on break. Somehow I could almost forgive my pump operator (saving the fort from excess magma fun) abandoning his job to attend to his bodily functions rather than just being bored with work.
I won't say too much since what I think has already been said over and over.
Although one of the things I found strange with Dwarf Fortress is that it is very easy to have a self sustainable fortress, the whole producing waste makes a self sustainable fortress just that bit harder to reach which seems fair to me. That said dealing with waste should be simple enough, either dig some holes and pit it with buckets or make a complex sewage system that can attend to the needs of a full population of boozers. I'm a bit iffy about animals creating filth though, they're already annoying enough with their children and their hatred of high frame rates.


2) Potash makers will become more useful. Change their title to Fertilizer maker, add a reaction to combine potash and manure to make fertilizer. You can also add the ability to fertilize crops with potash, manure or fertilizer.
3) I don't advocate giving adventurers the ability to squeeze one out whenever they want. Consider it abstracted into traveling. However, adventurers exploring sewers should have the option of flinging poo.

For 2) that makes sense and could open up the opportunity to have a lower class dwarf that has to live his life digging through sewage to fertilize crops. The benefits are higher crop yield but at the cost of higher rates of disease among these unhappy labourers (might even help to create a crime system where unhappy poor rat hunters dwarves turn to stealing).
As for 3) This seems to be the main thing people seem to have against the idea of sewage in dwarf fortress. I agree with the whole "only producing waste while travelling since it makes enough sense" I don't think the whole "crap as a weapon" should be added only since it just seems strange to throw sewage at something that lives in sewage. I doubt throwing some sludge at a monster is really gonna stun it enough to consider twice about biting off your face, might even make the thing angrier. Besides the point of the filith is to add an extra layer of thought to designing rather than something that is meant to be "hi-larious".
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Libelnon

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #317 on: June 09, 2010, 12:48:18 pm »

Speaking of which, they managed this in stronghold 2, with gong and the gong pits. Not that the game was great, but the idea could be bastardised into DF.
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Nikov

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #318 on: June 09, 2010, 12:57:31 pm »

After catching up with this thread, I have thought of a few additional reasons to implement poop...

Filth. Implement filth. As a water contaminating flow. Not as poop, poo, feces, urine, pee or manure. It would be impossible to pick it up and throw at people. It would be impossible to extract from creatures. It would be impossible to found a religion on.

Such silliness. Anyway, my engineer brother-in-law tells me modern sewers are entirely gravity powered. Its going to be fun figuring out how to keep filth moving through the system without graded aqueducts.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #319 on: June 09, 2010, 01:06:19 pm »

It would be impossible to pick it up and throw at people.

Why? There are historic examples of dumping "filth" on people during sieges and so forth.

Seems a rather arbitrary and prudish restriction when we can pick up living creatures and hurl them at people but not poop.
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Libelnon

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #320 on: June 09, 2010, 01:26:22 pm »

After catching up with this thread, I have thought of a few additional reasons to implement poop...

Filth. Implement filth. As a water contaminating flow. Not as poop, poo, feces, urine, pee or manure. It would be impossible to pick it up and throw at people. It would be impossible to extract from creatures. It would be impossible to found a religion on.

Such silliness. Anyway, my engineer brother-in-law tells me modern sewers are entirely gravity powered. Its going to be fun figuring out how to keep filth moving through the system without graded aqueducts.

Simple. People keep waterfalls flowing, do they not? Pump it into a river, and then draw water from the river further upstream to power the sewers. It's what I did. If all else fails, dam up the river and run it through the sewer directly.
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Zangi

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #321 on: June 09, 2010, 05:24:03 pm »

After catching up with this thread, I have thought of a few additional reasons to implement poop...

Filth. Implement filth. As a water contaminating flow. Not as poop, poo, feces, urine, pee or manure. It would be impossible to pick it up and throw at people. It would be impossible to extract from creatures. It would be impossible to found a religion on.

I can go with this line...

Default hardcoded ethics:
[FILTHY:UNTHINKABLE]

Any way to mitigate the 'LOLPOO' potential is welcomed.
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Josephus

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #322 on: June 09, 2010, 07:11:27 pm »

It would be impossible to pick it up and throw at people.

Why? There are historic examples of dumping "filth" on people during sieges and so forth.

Seems a rather arbitrary and prudish restriction when we can pick up living creatures and hurl them at people but not poop.

Not to mention tipping arrows with the stuff and shooting people with them.

Speaking of which, is that planned? It would be incredible to tip your arrows from a bottle of Forgotten Beast blood, making them Arrows of Face-Melting +1.
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nenjin

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #323 on: June 09, 2010, 08:42:01 pm »

Not to mention loading corpses and severed heads into catapults to spread disease...or Pungi pits (pits with ****-covered spikes) used in Vietnam.
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Scruga

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #324 on: June 10, 2010, 12:23:52 am »

As a new player I really don't see the harm in this being added at all.  Though it would make perfect sense to have it as an init setting for those that don't want it or don't want to have to worry with designing fully working sewage system. It would be nice if the whole "producing waste" task happened only when dwarfs are on break. Somehow I could almost forgive my pump operator (saving the fort from excess magma fun) abandoning his job to attend to his bodily functions rather than just being bored with work.
I won't say too much since what I think has already been said over and over.
Although one of the things I found strange with Dwarf Fortress is that it is very easy to have a self sustainable fortress, the whole producing waste makes a self sustainable fortress just that bit harder to reach which seems fair to me. That said dealing with waste should be simple enough, either dig some holes and pit it with buckets or make a complex sewage system that can attend to the needs of a full population of boozers. I'm a bit iffy about animals creating filth though, they're already annoying enough with their children and their hatred of high frame rates.


2) Potash makers will become more useful. Change their title to Fertilizer maker, add a reaction to combine potash and manure to make fertilizer. You can also add the ability to fertilize crops with potash, manure or fertilizer.
3) I don't advocate giving adventurers the ability to squeeze one out whenever they want. Consider it abstracted into traveling. However, adventurers exploring sewers should have the option of flinging poo.

For 2) that makes sense and could open up the opportunity to have a lower class dwarf that has to live his life digging through sewage to fertilize crops. The benefits are higher crop yield but at the cost of higher rates of disease among these unhappy labourers (might even help to create a crime system where unhappy poor rat hunters dwarves turn to stealing).
As for 3) This seems to be the main thing people seem to have against the idea of sewage in dwarf fortress. I agree with the whole "only producing waste while travelling since it makes enough sense" I don't think the whole "crap as a weapon" should be added only since it just seems strange to throw sewage at something that lives in sewage. I doubt throwing some sludge at a monster is really gonna stun it enough to consider twice about biting off your face, might even make the thing angrier. Besides the point of the filith is to add an extra layer of thought to designing rather than something that is meant to be "hi-larious".
Such a wall of text about the presence of poo.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #325 on: June 10, 2010, 12:48:12 am »

Bottom line is that if it goes in, it should go in just like any other feature. Fully implemented. There should be no prudish artificial limitations on it, just put it in correctly or not at all. Its not for you to say what people can or cannot do in their game.
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Silverionmox

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #326 on: June 10, 2010, 03:13:48 am »

After catching up with this thread, I have thought of a few additional reasons to implement poop...

Filth. Implement filth. As a water contaminating flow. Not as poop, poo, feces, urine, pee or manure. It would be impossible to pick it up and throw at people. It would be impossible to extract from creatures. It would be impossible to found a religion on.
Well, the Egyptians put the scarab in a prominent place, because of its behaviour of making little balls of dung and rolling them around for its offspring. Also, crocodile dung was a popular ingredient in many medicines.
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j0nas

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #327 on: June 10, 2010, 04:19:10 am »

Wow, you guys are really serious about this shit.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #328 on: June 10, 2010, 04:30:22 am »

Wow, you guys are really serious about this shit.
I see what you did there.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Nothing Sacred Left: Add Sewage Already
« Reply #329 on: June 10, 2010, 04:38:26 am »

Wow, you guys are really serious about this shit.
I see what you did there.

There's no need to get anal about this.
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