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[Toaster]

I like that. I'll change both, then reword the "count three" scroll to give the number of anti-town factions.

Irony, any thoughts?  This was your idea to start with.

[Toaster]

I ran a 13p test game using the current sign-in list for Para18 as names, and generated items for it.  After a game where Dariush pulled off a tricky scum win, see the item generation list below:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Town:
Pandarsenic
webadict
Toaster
JanusTwoFace
Jim Groovester
Org
Zathras
Ottofar
Leafsnail
Mysteriousbluepuppet

Scum:
Argembarger
NativeForeigner
Dariush

Starting Item:
Pandarsenic: Scroll of Inspection
webadict: Scroll of object detection
Toaster: Scroll of monster detection
JanusTwoFace: Scroll of Roleblock
Jim Groovester: Scroll of enchant weapon
Org: Scroll of Distraction
Zathras: Wand of slow
Ottofar: Scroll of Roleblock
Leafsnail: Scroll of Treasure
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Scroll of confusion
Argembarger: Scroll of fire
NativeForeigner: Scroll of Protection
Dariush: Scroll of Distraction

D1 Lynch: NativeForeigner

N1 Item Gains:

Pandarsenic: Wand of Hallucination
webadict: Scroll of enchant weapon
Toaster: Scroll of Distraction
JanusTwoFace: Scroll of confusion
Jim Groovester: Scroll of confusion
Org: Wand of slow
Zathras: Wand of slow
Ottofar: Scroll of enchant armor
Leafsnail: Scroll of Inspection
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Scroll of confusion
Argembarger: Scroll of darkness
Dariush: Scroll of Greater Treasure

N1 NK:  Leafsnail

D2 Lynch:  Argembarger

N2 Item Gains:

Pandarsenic: Scroll of Roleblock
webadict: Wand of slow
Toaster: Scroll of fire
JanusTwoFace: Wand of Roleblock
Jim Groovester: Scroll of Inspection
Org: Scroll of Roleblock
Zathras: The One Ring
Ottofar: Scroll of enchant armor
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Scroll of Tracking
Dariush: Scroll of Protection

N2 NK:  Jim Groovester

D3 Lynch:  Toaster

N3 Item Gains:

Pandarsenic: Scroll of Treasure
webadict: Scroll of Inspection
JanusTwoFace: Scroll of monster detection
Org: Scroll of confusion
Zathras: Scroll of monster detection
Ottofar: Ring of See Invisible
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Scroll of enchant weapon
Dariush: Scroll of object detection

N3 NK:  Pandarsenic

D4 Lynch:  Ottofar

N4 Item Gains:

webadict: Scroll of Distraction
JanusTwoFace: Scroll of Treasure
Org: Scroll of enchant weapon
Zathras: Scroll of confusion
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Scroll of monster detection
Dariush: Amulet of preservation

N4 NK: webadict

D5 Lynch: JanusTwoFace

N5 Item Gains:

Org: Wand of Tracking
Zathras: Scroll of Protection
Mysteriousbluepuppet: Scroll of Protection
Dariush: Wand of the Guardian

N5 NK:  Org

D6 Lynch: Mysteriousbluepuppet

Scum Wins

Total nightly items generated: 40
Common: 32
Uncommon: 7
Rare: 0
Artifact: 1

All lynches were random, and NKs were random townies.  No actions were considered.  I used the 75/20/4/1 drop ratio.

Looking at the results, a few things stood out:

1. We need more common items.
2. Having said that, weighting the more useful ones to appear more often may be good.
3. We need more common items.
4. With 40 item generations, that gives an expected generation ratio of 30 commons, 8 uncommons, and 2 rares or artifacts, favoring rares 4/5 of the time.  I'm thinking we made it a bit too conservative.  I want to poke some numbers around to tweak the drop ratio, but nothing as severe as a 5% artifact ratio- I think 1%, or at highest 2% is good for that.

The items themselves need some review (again, especially commons).

[JanusTwoface]

Oh man that is going to get confusing...



Could be interesting.

[RedWarrior0]

Hm.  Not sure how to balance that one.  Is it instead or in addition to their desired action?

Hm... Kills would be instead of, but other actions, I'm not sure. I want something similar to the Nethack item, where everything starts attacking everything else, regardless of alignment.

(Completely off-topic: It's fun when you start with two scrolls and a wand of Create Monster and a Ring of Conflict.)

[Mr.Person]

70/20/9/1?

[webadict]

70/20/9/1?

I think 66/26/7/1 might be slightly better. Not that I care to up the rare amount. There were plenty of chances for rares. It just was unlucky.

[Toaster]

Assuming 40 standard drops (common/unc/rare+art)

70/20/9/1
28/8/4

66/26/7/1
26.4/10.4/3.2

65/25/9/1
26/10/4

I like the latter two more than the first- uncommons aren't common enough at 20%.  The last two probably aren't different enough to make a major difference- the numbers are just cleaner in the last.


Any ideas for commons?  Also, unless I see an objection, the scrolls for inspect/RB/protect/track/watch (see who actions the target) are going to be appear twice in the list and therefore appear twice as often.

[webadict]

Assuming 40 standard drops (common/unc/rare+art)

70/20/9/1
28/8/4

66/26/7/1
26.4/10.4/3.2

65/25/9/1
26/10/4

I like the latter two more than the first- uncommons aren't common enough at 20%.  The last two probably aren't different enough to make a major difference- the numbers are just cleaner in the last.


Any ideas for commons?  Also, unless I see an objection, the scrolls for inspect/RB/protect/track/watch (see who actions the target) are going to be appear twice in the list and therefore appear twice as often.

Don't make inspect or watch twice as likely. Inspect is pretty powerful on its own.

[Toaster]

I decided not to weight just a few items- too gamey.  I just added these commons:

Scroll of Command: The target actions you tonight.
Scroll of Insight: The next time your target would be changed, it is not changed.
Scroll of the Clear Mind: The target cannot be redirected this night.
Wand of Cantrips: You perform a random action on a random target.  Possible actions: inspect, randomize, track, protect, block, grant common item
Scroll of Knowledge: You learn of all actions that target you tonight.  You do not know who performed these actions.

I also changed these, because I felt they were strong as-is:
Scroll of enchant armor: Target gains 25% kill resistance.  This does not stack with itself.
Scroll of enchant weapon: Target's kill gain additional 20% chance to ignore kill resistance.  This does not stack with itself.

I kind of want to move those to uncommon and buff them a bit back up, but I'd like more commons to replace them- I want at least 20 commons (which there are right now).

[Mr.Person]

I also changed these, because I felt they were strong as-is:
Scroll of enchant armor: Target gains 25% kill resistance.  This does not stack with itself.
Scroll of enchant weapon: Target's kill gain additional 20% chance to ignore kill resistance.  This does not stack with itself.

I made them common because there needs to be as many commons as possible. Of course, I was kinda forcing them into common, so moot point.

[IronyOwl]

If you still need more commons, you could make action-specific or conditional effects. "Blocks the target's inspect" or "if the target redirects, you inspect them," that kind of thing.

You could probably also get a fair amount of mileage out of the "this night only" or "stays on the target until it activates" distinction.

[Toaster]

Hmm... I like that thought.  I haven't seen many in the way of "apply X effect to target until Y happens" roles in the games I've played and read, but I already have a couple in the item list.  I'll try to put some together.


Irony, is this a game you were planning on running or just thoughts you were putting out?  If you're not planning to run it, I'd like to some time.

[Book]

I like the "this night only" vs. "until (de)activated"; that's a good idea. Not so much for the conditionals; relying on coincidence renders the item useless most of the time ("inspect if redirect" is useless if no redirect, yes? You just wasted your night action).

One additional thing you can do to multiply your commons is to make potions in addition to scrolls. Potion of protect, scroll of protect, two items with the same effect/function. Unless you want to make potions only be used on self, but probably not -- just throwing the potion should work if you want to affect someone else.


I'm very much looking forward to this game.

[Toaster]

Scroll of Snooping: The next time the target uses an item, you are told the name of that item.
Scroll of the Thick Skull: The target is both randomized and protected.
Scroll of Sticky Sap: Target's action is delayed until the next night.
Scroll of Jailing: The target is both blocked and protected.
Scroll of Safe Travels: The target is both tracked and protected.

Five new commons.  The last three exist as uncommon wands as well.

[IronyOwl]

Just putting thoughts out; feel free. I'll probably join, in fact.

The conditionals was mostly to power down effects so they could be common, though I'm having trouble coming up with good examples. Even a staff of nightkill on inspect is kinda weak for a common, at least in a game where you're likely to get other options.