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Author Topic: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!  (Read 144314 times)

RedWarrior0

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #645 on: February 12, 2011, 12:08:35 am »

Scroll of Paranoia: You gain a number of votes for tomorrow equal to the number of inspections tonight. These votes may be private, but will be added to the votecount at the end of the day.

Scroll of Tenacity: Target may not be roleblocked, mirrored, redirected, copied, or mimicked.
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Mr.Person

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #646 on: February 12, 2011, 03:29:06 am »

Scroll of Snooping: The next time the target uses an item, you are told the name of that item.
Scroll of the Thick Skull: The target is both randomized and protected.
Scroll of Sticky Sap: Target's action is delayed until the next night.
Scroll of Jailing: The target is both blocked and protected.
Scroll of Safe Travels: The target is both tracked and protected.

Five new commons.  The last three exist as uncommon wands as well.

The first and last ones are definitely too good to be common. There has to be a better name for that first one. We could use Object Detection and rename the version I suggested earlier as "Tresure Detection"."Sticky Sap" there should be "Paralysis". Scroll of Jailing should probably be called "Scroll of Petrification" with the flavor being you're turning the target into a very hard statue for the night that's incapable of moving... or being damaged. Sounds better as a wand or staff than "Wand of Jailing" and "Staff of Jailing" and is more Nethackish. Again, sounds more Nethackish and sounds better on a stick. There's no way you would know this, but "Think Skull" there should just be called "Hallucination". In Nethack, hallucinating gives you death ray immunity. The specific message is "The death ray hits you! You have an out of body experience...". See my next paragraph for why this is relevant. Not trying to sound nerdy or anything, I just know a LOT about Nethack. Those are all good ideas, I'm just a stickler about keeping everying "on theme", even if that theme is already really loose and kind of a joke.

I recommend, mostly for flavor but partially to cover corner cases, that the mafia's kill count as an item named "Finger of Death" or "Spellbook of FoD". I do not know what kind of effect this would have on the game besides making "gives name of target's item" items very, very powerful.

Sorry if any of these repeat names/effects, I just can't remember everything.

Common:
Scroll of Corrosion: Target loses any enchantments to armor and weapon. (This might be unfun, especially at common, so I dunno. Maybe restrict this to a wand at uncommon?)
Scroll of Mail: Let's you send an anonymous message to one player. (Definitely one that needs a staff version at rare and wand at uncommon)
Ring of Warning: After each night, you get told how many people targeted you. (Bump this up to uncommon if there's enough commons. It's a bit strong as a common and a bit weak as an uncommon, and it's better to be too weak than too strong. Still, we really need more commons badly.)
Scroll of Mesmerization: Target is redirected to you. Using this on oneself results in roleblocking. (Comes in wand and staff versions)

Uncommon:
Belt of Carrying: Your max carrying capacity increases to 4 (multiples don't stack). (Power is fine for a common, it's just a bit boring most of the time. Maybe all the more reason to make it common? It's just no relevant very often unless lots of gifts appear or you get tons of durable items)
Cloak of Preservation: Your items are all immune to damage, destruction, and corrosion. Does not prevent theft or polymorphing. (Power is fine for common, it's just kind of annoying to a corroder if most of the playerbase is immune already)

Rare:
Scroll of Scare Monster: You automatically roleblock anyone else who targets you. Stops working when you quest to get an item or use an item on another player. (I'm assuming you may choose not to quest for an item each night)
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Book

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #647 on: February 12, 2011, 03:50:32 am »

Yeah! Let's geek out!

Scroll of Jailing should probably be called "Scroll of Petrification" with the flavor being you're turning the target into a very hard statue for the night that's incapable of moving... or being damaged.
Should be "Scroll of Flesh to Stone".

"Think Skull" there should just be called "Hallucination". In Nethack, hallucinating gives you death ray immunity. The specific message is "The death ray hits you! You have an out of body experience...".
Hell yeah! Next morning: "Everything looks SO boring now..."

Scroll of Corrosion: Target loses any enchantments to armor and weapon.
Uhm... "confused Destroy Armour"?

Ring of Warning: After each night, you get told how many people targeted you.
I like this, and would make it common.

Scroll of Mesmerization: Target is redirected to you. Using this on oneself results in roleblocking.
Roleblocking self? "Scroll of Amnesia".

Belt of Carrying: Your max carrying capacity increases to 4 (multiples don't stack).
Should be "Bag of Holding"... but I didn't know we had such limited carrying capacity! I'd think four should be the standard, and the bag would increase it to eight or so...

Cloak of Preservation: Your items are all immune to damage, destruction, and corrosion.
Oilskin Cloak?


Not trying to sound nerdy or anything, I just know a LOT about Nethack.
Yeah! Let's have more! Altars! Unicorn Horns! Praying! Engraving Elbereth! Fountains and Sinks! Scum can sacrifice a human corpse and summon Demogorgon!  8-)

Heheheh. Oh the possibilities are endless...
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #648 on: February 12, 2011, 09:38:53 pm »

I guess count me in as the ADOM expert, then... not that I've put many references to it in there.  Could rename one of those artifact armors Moloch Armor...


Anyway...

Scroll of Corrosion:  In.  It's fine as common- the enchant scrolls are common and helps balance them out.
I like Scroll of Mail, but just as a scroll.  There's a rare (Helm of Telepathy) that gives this effect permanently (limit one per night, doesn't count as night action).
Ring of Warning's fine- it'd be the only permanent common.  Same as the Crouton ability from Mafia Salad.
?oMesmerization is already in.

We have an item limit?  I don't see the point- KISS.
We have this as uncommon already: Amulet of preservation: All items can't be destroyed by outside sources

I like ?oScare Monster.  Right now, you can choose to go look in the item pool- there's no issue adding a "do nothing" choice.  Should mafiakills end this effect?

Speaking of ADOM:

Scroll of Danger:  When you use this item, you have equal items of getting an uncommon item, a rare item, nothing, or dying.
Uncommon?  Should there be an additional chance of something happening?
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #649 on: February 12, 2011, 09:46:59 pm »

I added those items and made the changes you suggested, Person.

I did give you folks the link to the list, right?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvFsNFGsoA1KdGZsTVZfY3VmX0w3OVhoRk5PaEl5NVE&hl=en&authkey=CI-PoZUM
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Mr.Person

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #650 on: February 13, 2011, 05:08:16 am »

Yeah! Let's geek out!

Aha, my good man, for you may be a Nethack geek, but I have played a great many roguelikes in my time! You are but a fool before my reservoir of knowledge!

Scroll of Jailing should probably be called "Scroll of Petrification" with the flavor being you're turning the target into a very hard statue for the night that's incapable of moving... or being damaged.
Should be "Scroll of Flesh to Stone".

The only reason Nethack has "Stone to Flesh" is that there's no common name for that. Animation, maybe, and if we wanted an effect like that it would be ?oTukima's Dance (animates your wielded weapon, spell and unique from Crawl) or ?oGolem Creation (IVAN). Either way, so many other rogeulikes (ADOM, I think, Angband definitely, Nethack, I think) specifically use the term "petrify" that I'm willing to ignore the really, really, really Nethackish sounding effect. Although really, either is fine. I'm not going to go into a nerdrage that you're using flesh to stone over petrify.

Scroll of Corrosion: Target loses any enchantments to armor and weapon.
Uhm... "confused Destroy Armour"?

This is one area I'm firmly against inheriting from Nethack. Most players probably aren't even aware scrolls in Nethack act differently if one is confused. Corrosion is an effect very common among roguelikes. We could just use "Scroll of Disintegrate Equipment" if we want to steal a spell effect from TES. I'd also accept "Scroll of Disenchanting" and "Cursed Scroll of Enchant Armor", if you really want this from Nethack. Although if we don't want this to be in scroll form, a better name for a wand/rod is "Acid Bolt", which is an exact spell name from SLASH'EM.

Scroll of Mesmerization: Target is redirected to you. Using this on oneself results in roleblocking.
Roleblocking self? "Scroll of Amnesia".

Roleblocking oneself was more a corner-case cutting joke, although now I'm starting to regret that since those kinds of jokes are Nethack's biggest problem. Consider it a DTTOE.

Mesmerization is an effect you can have placed under you in Crawl. You can only move closer to or target anything in the general direction of whatever is mesmerizing you. I think only mermaids can mesmerize. It's not an actual scroll, but it sounds cool as a scroll imo, and sounds really cool as a wand and staff.

Belt of Carrying: Your max carrying capacity increases to 4 (multiples don't stack).
Should be "Bag of Holding"... but I didn't know we had such limited carrying capacity! I'd think four should be the standard, and the bag would increase it to eight or so...

I thought I saw a 3-item-limit earlier. Oh well. Belt of Carrying is from IVAN. BoH should be rare while the belt is uncommon. Artifact would be "Wallet of Perseus" and comes from SLASH'EM. It's a BoH but makes think 1/6's times as light when blessed instead of 1/4. In light of what was said later, I actually kind of agree a carrying capacity is a bit superfluous outside of encouraging players to actually use the items they collect instead of hoarding.

Cloak of Preservation: Your items are all immune to damage, destruction, and corrosion.
Oilskin Cloak?

Oilskin cloak isn't really memorable since everybody just greases a better cloak. CoP is from Crawl. Granted it's also pretty useless, but at least it  matches what it does in-game. Oilskin would be something like "Players who target you gain a 50% chance of missing, wasting the charge of the item they used against you", although that sounds really good, even as a rare.

Not trying to sound nerdy or anything, I just know a LOT about Nethack.
Yeah! Let's have more! Altars! Unicorn Horns! Praying! Engraving Elbereth! Fountains and Sinks! Scum can sacrifice a human corpse and summon Demogorgon!  8-)

Heheheh. Oh the possibilities are endless...

Unihorn should probably go in, even if it's as like an infinity-use poison-curer. I cannot believe I forgot about the unihorn when I was thinking of Nethack items. Granted I was thinking mostly of cloaks and helmets and other equipment, but hey, a unihorn pays for itself the first time you use it.

I guess count me in as the ADOM expert, then... not that I've put many references to it in there.  Could rename one of those artifact armors Moloch Armor...

Good, I didn't play much ADOM. All I know is that eating quicklings will make you faster, emperor liches are annoying, the Bracers of War are good, and don't stand on altars or you'll get sacrificed. With your ADOM knowledge, Book's Nethack knowledge (have I mentioned I've ascended? Suck it), and my Crawl knowledge, we're only missing some loser expert who's played too much Angband to complete our inner circle of nerds. I'd like to apologize if it seems like I'm including too many Crawl references, I just want to balance out the Nethack references. Now I'm starting to think we have too many Crawl references and not enough Nethack ones!

Scroll of Danger:  When you use this item, you have equal items of getting an uncommon item, a rare item, nothing, or dying.
Uncommon?  Should there be an additional chance of something happening?

I really, really want to use this on someone else. Either way, I like it. Uncommon is good since if it was common there'd be too many suicides/murders committed with this thing. Rare isn't cool since it's not a sure thing. Quick idea for another uncommon: /oRandomEffects comes right out of Crawl. Randomly protects, roleblocks, kills, or does nothing, equal chances. You could do it as a scroll at common and staff at rare, although I'm not sure I like having this many random chance kills floating around if it gets to rare.

Artifact:
Planepacked - Carrying this artifact means you've already won merely due to how awesome it is. Note that if you die, you've dropped this feat of science and no longer reap its benefits! (As long as you hold it, you're a survivor and no longer obstruct anyone else's win con. If you die, you revert back to your previous win-con). Alternatively, if you want this effect to just be rare, call it "Helm of Opposite Alignment" and make anyone holding it into a survivor. Survivors randomly turn into townies or mafia-ally although MA and survivor are pretty much the same thing, but hey, whatever. Personally, though, this is the kind of effect I really don't want to happen more than once per game, so leave it as an artifact.

One idea I had earlier that I'm not sure if I mentioned (I don't think I did) was that the item drop rates would get better each night. I was thinking maybe a -7%C/+5%U/+1.5%R/+0.5%A chance each night. The idea is keep it so a relative percentage of the game gets the same number of noncommon items each night, so that the entire fate of the game doesn't rest with a few players. This formula works, although not perfectly. I'm a little bit worried about the late game having too few commons, especially the fifth and sixth item gens. The fact that late-game players who have little time left to use their items will get many wands and staffs this way is perfectly acceptable "FUCKING ROGUELIKES!" behavior designed to troll the playerbase.

These are numbers for you all to digest. The numbers on the left are the generation chances. The numbers on the right are the actual numbers of each item that will be generated that night. I'm assuming the mafiakill and lynch go off and nobody else dies, so there's 13 players alive when they first go for items, -2 each night.

65/25/9/1                 First item, 13 players (8.45/3.25/1.17/0.13)
58/30/10.5/1.5          Second item,  11 players (5.27/3.3/1.16/0.17)
51/35/12/2               Third item, 9 players (4.59/3.15/1.08/0.18)
44/40/13.5/2.5          Fourth item, 7 players (3.08/2.8/0.95/0.18)
37/45/15/3               Fifth item, 5 players (1.85/2.25/0.75/0.15)
30/50/16.5/3.5          Sixth item, 3 players (0.90/1.5/0.5/0.1)

EDIT: Fixed a few quote fails.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 03:08:26 am by Mr.Person »
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

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webadict

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #651 on: February 13, 2011, 11:23:38 am »

I wouldn't consider myself an expert on Angband, but I know a bit. I probably played a little/lot of each of those. Gotta love roguelikes. I'm currently stuck on Elona now. That one's... Odd.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #652 on: February 14, 2011, 03:54:31 pm »

I think we have enough items for a test game.  (Though keep suggesting if you have ideas!)  I want to hammer out classes.  So far, we have:

Thief:  Instead of questing, can choose to steal a random item from a player.  The action happens at dusk and can’t be directly blocked.  Can only steal scrolls, wands, and staves- if the target has none of those, the action fails.

Warrior:  Kill actions have a 25% chance to bypass protections.

Mage:  Using a scroll has a 50% chance to not use it up.

Bard:  Starts with an uncommon instead of common.

Priest:  Starts with a protect scroll in addition to a random common.

Ranger:  Has a 25% chance to bypass blocks.

Merchant:  When discarding an item, gets a random item one rank below in exchange.  Gets nothing for discarding a common.



There had been talk on allowing selection of class, forcing randomization, or optionally choosing randomization with a bonus for selecting such.  What kind of bonus would be be talking about here?  An additional item?  A chance for an uncommon (rare for bard) instead of common to start with?  A slight power-up to the class bonus?  Thoughts?

Personally, I support allowing choice with random selection giving a bonus.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
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Darvi

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #653 on: February 14, 2011, 03:55:51 pm »

Are spoons uncommon?
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webadict

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #654 on: February 14, 2011, 05:02:54 pm »

Are spoons uncommon?
Trying to be a bard?
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Darvi

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #655 on: February 14, 2011, 05:06:24 pm »

You got me :3
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IronyOwl

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #656 on: February 14, 2011, 06:32:07 pm »

A bonus to the class would have to be bigger than a single item, I think, since the bonus from class stays with you the whole game. Maybe the game wouldn't last as long as I think it might, though.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #657 on: February 14, 2011, 06:38:06 pm »

In that case, Bards should start with artifact level sporks. Which would totally break the game, but whatev'.
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webadict

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #658 on: February 14, 2011, 09:05:54 pm »

You sporky bard?
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Darvi

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Mafia Gametypes: Hash 'em out here!
« Reply #659 on: February 14, 2011, 09:06:27 pm »

:3
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