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[Book]

There had been talk on allowing selection of class, forcing randomization, or optionally choosing randomization with a bonus for selecting such.  What kind of bonus would be be talking about here?  An additional item?  A chance for an uncommon (rare for bard) instead of common to start with?  A slight power-up to the class bonus?  Thoughts?

Personally, I support allowing choice with random selection giving a bonus.

I also like allowing choice with a bonus given for choosing "random". I also think the class attributes are well described as they are, as long as they are chosen before alignments are rolled (otherwise scum will always choose warrior). As for the bonus for random, I like the extra common item, but alternatively, it could be at random either a) an uncommon item, or b) an upgrade of their initial item.

[webadict]

There had been talk on allowing selection of class, forcing randomization, or optionally choosing randomization with a bonus for selecting such.  What kind of bonus would be be talking about here?  An additional item?  A chance for an uncommon (rare for bard) instead of common to start with?  A slight power-up to the class bonus?  Thoughts?

Personally, I support allowing choice with random selection giving a bonus.

I also like allowing choice with a bonus given for choosing "random". I also think the class attributes are well described as they are, as long as they are chosen before alignments are rolled (otherwise scum will always choose warrior). As for the bonus for random, I like the extra common item, but alternatively, it could be at random either a) an uncommon item, or b) an upgrade of their initial item.

Why should the scum get goosed when they pick a role? I don't really see a problem with them all picking Warrior. A 1/4 percent chance to get past a protection is pretty negligible, especially since you're not even sure if you're going to get a protection item, let alone roll the 4 it takes to get past it. All that really does is make the scum start with a disadvantage.

They should know their teammates and be able to choose, so that they are working together. Or at least know they're scum. Knowing their teammates might be a little bad.

Of course, I still think a lot of those roles besides Mage are pretty useless. Ironically, I'd boost their powers to this:

Thief:  Instead of questing, can choose to steal a random item from a player.  The action happens at dusk and can’t be directly blocked.  Can only steal scrolls, wands, and staves- if the target has none of those, the action fails.

Warrior:  Kill actions bypass protections.

Mage:  Using a scroll does not use it up.

Bard:  Starts with a rare instead of common.

Priest:  Starts with a wand of protection in addition to a random common.

Ranger:  Has a 75% chance to bypass blocks.

Merchant:  When discarding an item, gets a random item one rank below in exchange.  Gets nothing for discarding a common.

Of course, I'm sure everyone will think these are too powerful, but it's not fair that the Warrior gets gypped for no reason (25% on Kill actions only, while the Ranger gets 25% on any action while being blocked.) And I'm not sure about the bard, but meh. The Priest deserves a Wand of Protection though.

The Warrior is oddly specific enough so that no one BUT the scum would choose him. The Ranger might actually be a better scum pick.

[Toaster]

I'd rather not turn the class choice to that high a power level.

Thief we seem to agree on.

Warrior:  Is there another effect it could do besides protection bypass?  100% bypass is too much. 25% to avoid protects or blocks on kills?  33% to avoid protections?

Alternately:  Kills by you happen before the target acts.  The kill would be jumped ahead in line before anything but blocks; maybe even ahead of them too.

Mage:  Too strong, considering some of the rare scrolls (wishing, cloning, solar flare.)  A scum mage with a kill (especially daykill) scroll would be nasty.  The effect may need to be changed to uncommon or below scrolls anyway, or have the effect slanted on rariry. (60/45/30/15 or somesuch)

Bard and Priest:  They'll need to be balanced against each other since they're similar.  I'm not against giving the priest a wand of protection, but I'd do that instead of the random common.  Which is then better: a specific good uncommon or a random uncommon?  IMO, the former.  The bard would need either an uncommon and common or an uncommon with a chance of a rare (75/25?)

Ranger:  Too high- 33% maybe?  It's useful all around.

Merchant:  We seem to be together on this one too.


My only issue with letting people pick class after they know their alignment is the delay in starting the game.  I could impose a 24h limit, after which they're defaulted to random.

Speaking of random, Web, what's your opinion on a bonus for letting the mod pick your class instead of picking it yourself?

I'd rather make a generic bonus than class specific ones, and nothing TOO good.

[Darvi]

Priest: When dead, they can serve as a spirit advisor to a live player.

Sound good maybe?

[webadict]

Thief we seem to agree on.

Warrior:  Is there another effect it could do besides protection bypass?  100% bypass is too much. 25% to avoid protects or blocks on kills?  33% to avoid protections?

It should either be equal to the Ranger's percentage for BOTH blocks and protection, or much higher for ONLY protection. So, either 33% chance to go through both block and protection (rolled together), or 50% for only protection.

Alternately:  Kills by you happen before the target acts.  The kill would be jumped ahead in line before anything but blocks; maybe even ahead of them too.

Nah. That's kind of confusing. Are they immune to blocks and protection? Because that's much more powerful than I was suggesting.

Mage:  Too strong, considering some of the rare scrolls (wishing, cloning, solar flare.)  A scum mage with a kill (especially daykill) scroll would be nasty.  The effect may need to be changed to uncommon or below scrolls anyway, or have the effect slanted on rariry. (60/45/30/15 or somesuch)

Okay, okay. How about 33%? That's not too powerful, but still leaves it possible.

Bard and Priest:  They'll need to be balanced against each other since they're similar.  I'm not against giving the priest a wand of protection, but I'd do that instead of the random common.  Which is then better: a specific good uncommon or a random uncommon?  IMO, the former.  The bard would need either an uncommon and common or an uncommon with a chance of a rare (75/25?)

Bard with both an Uncommon and a Common would be fair, so long as the Priest gets a Wand of Protection. I think that's perfectly fair, especially for random class choosing.

Ranger:  Too high- 33% maybe?  It's useful all around.

Fair enough.

Merchant:  We seem to be together on this one too.

Actually, I changed my mind. How about a 33% or 25% chance for the item to maintain the same rank?

My only issue with letting people pick class after they know their alignment is the delay in starting the game.  I could impose a 24h limit, after which they're defaulted to random.

Speaking of random, Web, what's your opinion on a bonus for letting the mod pick your class instead of picking it yourself?

I'd rather make a generic bonus than class specific ones, and nothing TOO good.

I say that items are upgraded a rank if the class is chosen randomly (or mod specific). Also, if the class would receive no random item normally, they receive a common. If they would receive more than one item, I'm not sure if both should be upgrade or only a random one, though.

[Mephansteras]

Priest: When dead, they can serve as a spirit advisor to a live player.

Sound good maybe?

Might be better to have Priests be Mediums who can speak with dead players. People enjoy a good dead chat, and dead players like the opportunity to make their voices heard. Having an actual ghost has been proven to be rather broken.

[Darvi]

Ya. Except it would be pretty much a town-only role. I mean, if they were revealed to be scum then nobody would listen to them afterwards.
Unless they used reverse psychology?

[webadict]

Ya. Except it would be pretty much a town-only role. I mean, if they were revealed to be scum then nobody would listen to them afterwards.
Unless they used reverse psychology?

Paranormal. There can be scum Medium.

[Darvi]

Ah, you mean they can talk with dead people. Misread your post >_>

[Mephansteras]

Ah, you mean they can talk with dead people. Misread your post >_>

Correct. Dead people able to talk to living ones gets broken. You can end up with an immortal confirmed town, which pretty much kills the game.

[webadict]

Ah, you mean they can talk with dead people. Misread your post >_>

Correct. Dead people able to talk to living ones gets broken. You can end up with an immortal confirmed town, which pretty much kills the game.

Scum got destroyed that game, though. 

[Toaster]

Warrior:  Is there another effect it could do besides protection bypass?  100% bypass is too much. 25% to avoid protects or blocks on kills?  33% to avoid protections?

It should either be equal to the Ranger's percentage for BOTH blocks and protection, or much higher for ONLY protection. So, either 33% chance to go through both block and protection (rolled together), or 50% for only protection.

33% to bypass blocks and protections sounds good.  Would blockers and protectors know they had been bypassed?  (I guess protectors would anyway.)

Mage:  Too strong, considering some of the rare scrolls (wishing, cloning, solar flare.)  A scum mage with a kill (especially daykill) scroll would be nasty.  The effect may need to be changed to uncommon or below scrolls anyway, or have the effect slanted on rariry. (60/45/30/15 or somesuch)

Okay, okay. How about 33%? That's not too powerful, but still leaves it possible.

33% across all rarities?

Bard and Priest:  They'll need to be balanced against each other since they're similar.  I'm not against giving the priest a wand of protection, but I'd do that instead of the random common.  Which is then better: a specific good uncommon or a random uncommon?  IMO, the former.  The bard would need either an uncommon and common or an uncommon with a chance of a rare (75/25?)

Bard with both an Uncommon and a Common would be fair, so long as the Priest gets a Wand of Protection. I think that's perfectly fair, especially for random class choosing.

All right, then.

Merchant:  We seem to be together on this one too.

Actually, I changed my mind. How about a 33% or 25% chance for the item to maintain the same rank?

I was thinking this one was underpowered compared to the rest.  Let's try 33% and see how it tests out.

I say that items are upgraded a rank if the class is chosen randomly (or mod specific). Also, if the class would receive no random item normally, they receive a common. If they would receive more than one item, I'm not sure if both should be upgrade or only a random one, though.

I'd say the standard starter item should upgrade.  In the case of randomly getting a bard, they'd get two uncommons.   Random priest... better to give them a staff instead of wand or a wand and a common?  I lean toward the latter.


Priest as medium:  Well, there's nothing against adding more classes- that'd be a good ability for a Necromancer or Shaman class.  I'm inclined to leave that out for the first time I run this.  (Yes, I intend to do it more than once if people like it.  You think I'd do all this work for one game?  (I might if the game was awesome enough.))

[Darvi]

Mage:  Too strong, considering some of the rare scrolls (wishing, cloning, solar flare.)  A scum mage with a kill (especially daykill) scroll would be nasty.  The effect may need to be changed to uncommon or below scrolls anyway, or have the effect slanted on rariry. (60/45/30/15 or somesuch)

Okay, okay. How about 33%? That's not too powerful, but still leaves it possible.

33% across all rarities?

Prob. just uncommon. I mean, 33% artifact would be OP.

Edit: wait, wrong idea again. I think the prob of non-usage shouldn't be the same across the rarities. So yeah, Wuba's idea seems fine (may need some fine tuning)

[webadict]

Warrior:  Is there another effect it could do besides protection bypass?  100% bypass is too much. 25% to avoid protects or blocks on kills?  33% to avoid protections?

It should either be equal to the Ranger's percentage for BOTH blocks and protection, or much higher for ONLY protection. So, either 33% chance to go through both block and protection (rolled together), or 50% for only protection.

33% to bypass blocks and protections sounds good.  Would blockers and protectors know they had been bypassed?  (I guess protectors would anyway.)

No. Never give away too much information. There are things like redirection and the like that can happen, so they won't know for sure.

Mage:  Too strong, considering some of the rare scrolls (wishing, cloning, solar flare.)  A scum mage with a kill (especially daykill) scroll would be nasty.  The effect may need to be changed to uncommon or below scrolls anyway, or have the effect slanted on rariry. (60/45/30/15 or somesuch)

Okay, okay. How about 33%? That's not too powerful, but still leaves it possible.

33% across all rarities?

Umm... I'd say for all rarities, but maybe it should be 33%/25%/20%/16.66% (33%/20%/14%/11%) or something that decreases with more powerful scrolls. Besides, using the scroll costs an action anyhow, so it should balance out in the end.

I say that items are upgraded a rank if the class is chosen randomly (or mod specific). Also, if the class would receive no random item normally, they receive a common. If they would receive more than one item, I'm not sure if both should be upgrade or only a random one, though.

I'd say the standard starter item should upgrade.  In the case of randomly getting a bard, they'd get two uncommons.   Random priest... better to give them a staff instead of wand or a wand and a common?  I lean toward the latter.

A staff of protection isn't all that powerful. Games don't last too long, and the Wand of Protection should last the majority of the game. I think an additional Common would be better.

Priest as medium:  Well, there's nothing against adding more classes- that'd be a good ability for a Necromancer or Shaman class.  I'm inclined to leave that out for the first time I run this.  (Yes, I intend to do it more than once if people like it.  You think I'd do all this work for one game?  (I might if the game was awesome enough.))

Sweet.

[Leafsnail]

I don't think the Ghost role would be too bad if it lost the ability to pm, actually.  The problem with the version that came before was that everyone could pm their roles to the ghost and the ghost could organize everything.