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[Egan_BW]

I mean.....I think it's fairer to say "it's sickening we're sight-based biological organisms that reproduce through sex."

to be fair it is pretty gross

[nenjin]

Says you! Much like democracy, flinging our DNA at each other based on visual criteria is the worst system created, except for every other system that has preceded it!

[Egan_BW]

We're less successful than ants, which aren't visual focused and most don't even reproduce, who are less successful than grasses which don't have eyes and don't select their mates, which are less successful than bacteria which don't mate. What leads you to believe that visual mate selection is better than these other quite successful strategies?

And we're not even good at it, peacocks are much prettier.

[sofanthiel]

flinging our DNA at each other based on visual criteria is the worst system created, except for every other system that has preceded it!

Wasn't doing so solely based on the associate's maintained existence a better system because that was at least dependent on actual survival probability?  Nowadays, living isn't a hassle for most humans!

[Ulfarr]

I think the whole beauty based society is a bit overblown, yeah being good looking might help one deal with other people, but in the end beauty alone is not enough to get by, much less succeed. Plenty of below average or even outright ugly people live comfortably, plenty of them reproduce, plenty of them even hold positions of power.

Ironically, the same divorce attorney I was watching spoke to this. "It used to be you'd live in a smaller town where there were maybe 3 or 4 single people that were potential partners and you picked the best from among them. Now, with media in general and social media, you're exposed to options, comparisons and opportunities on a daily basis. That drives our sense of competition and our own focus on our fitness or lack thereof into overdrive."

Honestly, I would take this attorney*'s opinions with a grain of salt. They might have something useful to say, but their perspective seems skewed. A town with only 3-5 single adults [in each generation] isn't small, it's either "dying", "just established" or a "nomadic settlement". In any case ,it's hardly a basis to draw conclusions from.

*And as such they should, by trade and education, know how to choose their words.

[Frumple]

We're less successful than ants, which aren't visual focused and most don't even reproduce, who are less successful than grasses which don't have eyes and don't select their mates, which are less successful than bacteria which don't mate. What leads you to believe that visual mate selection is better than these other quite successful strategies?

And we're not even good at it, peacocks are much prettier.

I mean, you wouldn't even bother looking at the aesthetic aspect to see how bad we are at it; we're not uniquely terrible at reproductive metrics (likelihood of conception, successful birth, etc.) among critters using our general reproductive strategy, from what I understand, but we're not exactly at the top of the interspecies orgyballheap, either.

We're not very good at being critters on a biological level, just at a sweet spot where what we have and cooperation/communication lets us outperform better built animals that can't talk nearly as well.

Biology in general sucks at everything, really. It just has a lot of examples of sucking less bad than your neighbors keeping your species going for a while. The vast majority of species that's existed are dead as fuck at this point, heh.

[Caz]

I don't understand people who waste their time or money on something as superficial as appearance.
What really bothers me is the amount of people that wear layers upon layers of make-up.
It is so terribly environmentally unfriendly. Not just the make-up itself, but all the removal tissues as well.
Destroy the planet so people won't see a wrinkle or freggles? Go away!
Not to mention that you could have done so much more fun and or satisfying things with all that money you spent on face paint.

It's fun.

Pretty much everything humans do is environmentally unfriendly.

[nenjin]

What leads you to believe that visual mate selection is better than these other quite successful strategies?

Because I like lookin at da ladies, that's why.

Also I wouldn't use ants as an example. The absolute savagery of ant ecosystems is terrifying.

flinging our DNA at each other based on visual criteria is the worst system created, except for every other system that has preceded it!

Wasn't doing so solely based on the associate's maintained existence a better system because that was at least dependent on actual survival probability?  Nowadays, living isn't a hassle for most humans!

Historically and broadly speaking, most reproductive survival strategies are quantity, not quality, based.

Honestly, I would take this attorney*'s opinions with a grain of salt. They might have something useful to say, but their perspective seems skewed. A town with only 3-5 single adults [in each generation] isn't small, it's either "dying", "just established" or a "nomadic settlement". In any case ,it's hardly a basis to draw conclusions from.

He was comparing his parent's generation to his own and preceding ones. The dating experience in 1950, 1960, 1970 is very, very different than it is now.

[Frumple]

He was comparing his parent's generation to his own and preceding ones. The dating experience in 1950, 1960, 1970 is very, very different than it is now.

Neat thing is, from what I've picked up of studies into the issue, our more recent generations are actually, like... better at it? Than those ones. Even with all the new problems trends that's popped up, they're more likely to form lasting, healthy relationships, all that jazz.

People keep being surprised when they look into it, expecting it to be some kind of horrible hellscape worse in myriad ways than the methods of yesteryear but it keeps turning out the kids are kinda' okay. They got all sorts of problems that are getting worse but relationship wrangling apparently isn't one of them.

[sofanthiel]

Because I like lookin at da ladies, that's why.

And ants like, well, ant nectar?  Maybe bettle juice?  I'm sure they enjoy something in some sense of the word.

[nenjin]

They're pheromone based.

[Lord Shonus]

A town with only 3-5 single adults [in each generation] isn't small, it's either "dying", "just established" or a "nomadic settlement".

The quote didn't say "2-5 single adults in each generation", it was "2-5 single people that were potential partners". That would eliminate anybody with too big an age gap in either direction, anybody that was too related to you, and anybody unsuitable for other reasons. Particularly in an age where marrying right out of high school and resenting it for the rest of your lives was a fairly common expectation, 2-5 potential partners sounds reasonable for a town of 200-1000 souls.

[sofanthiel]

They're pheromone based.

Isn't that basically just their method of communication?  I might be wrong, but I thought that's pretty much the extent of that mechanism; feelings/emotions are a bit different.

[nenjin]

I'm not an expert and am not going to spend the requisite 30 minutes to understand all of Ant communication strategies....but I'm pretty sure 90% of their communication is pheromone based.

For example, the Assassin bug kills ants and then glues their corpses to its own body. This allows the Assassin bug to walk straight into an Ant nest and eat and kill as they please. The soldier ants don't stop them because they detect the scent of ants all over them and assume the Assassin bug is one of their own. They'll even climb all over it and the ant corpses and are still none the wiser.

So yeah. Scents are their primary method of communication and situational awareness.

[sofanthiel]

That's actually super cool!  Sounds like a great idea for a sci-fi horror movie, too.