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[Tiruin]

Ooo, coincidences! :O

So on a thought, I was browsing through my PC drive and wondered if one of the roguelikes I used to play was updated to this day.

It was Sil, the roguelike, and it is (The last version I've had was 4,258 KB, while the latest is 15,922 KB O_o, from 2012 to 2017. Wow.)

Another nice thing was, coincidentally, I saw who may be probably the Bay12'er above me in what I think is the review section! :3

Praise for Sil
[...]
SalmonGod
It's an Angband variant, except it's so heavily modified from Angband that it's barely recognizable.
What's really got me hooked on it is how elegant the design is in absolutely every aspect.  The interface, controls, and all of the game mechanics are really easy to understand and fairly simple, but still offer a statisfying amount of complexity that forces you into interesting choices.  The balance inherent in these mechanics is damn near flawless. 

[SalmonGod]

Thanks for the heads up on that.  I'll have to check out what Sil is looking like these days.

[Rolan7]

I really enjoyed a few days of Rogue Effect (thanks again for recommending that) so giving this a try.

Off the bat, I like the tutorial, and the multi-window interface which reminds me of Zangband (which is probably unfair, I assume most *bands use it after a certain point.  I mostly replay really old ones out of nostalgia, like Steamband...)

The idea of being more lore-friendly is intriguing.  My favorite band is still Tales of Middle Earth, for recreating the world of Middle Earth via overworld with various dungeons.  But you could still play a skeletal drow wizard or whatnot IIRC (Along with many vaguely-thematic new races/classes, and some entirely made up but very fun like dark mold/summoner)

Ooh hey, experience just for encounters?  I really like that idea.  That might change a lot about the typical *band formula.
Showing the combat rolls is a nice touch too.  The meaning isn't completely obvious, but it's worth it to keep them compressed like that.

Heh, this is so different to the ones I usually replay.  But I love this emphasis on stealth as an option...  I hope it actually is at all reasonable.  There are a lot of good signs, like the encounter XP, and extra stealth from hugging walls/corners.

I also appreciate the support for keys I learned so long ago, like w to wield and T to tunnel, even though they suggest alternatives.  Goes to show that roguelike UI doesn't need to be bad; it can be very refined, over the years.  Almost easy, considering the complexity it allows.

Oh jeez there's DND-style crafting with XP costs, I regret not checking this out sooner.  Though maybe a lot of these features are new, and I lucked out.

I need to replay Incursion again sometime, I hope it's getting updates...  That's the one that was surprisingly true to DND 3.5.  Alienists, even (though ironically broken).
In the meantime, this is looking real good.  Thanks (for saving me from grinding goshdarn Golbats on Victory road, Pokemon Silver)

Edit:  Free Action is not only on the crafting list, it's the cheapest option??
But cheap paralysis deaths, avoidable only by grinding, are such a staple /s

[SalmonGod]

One of the interesting things about Sil is it prevents grinding.  You're forced to progress at a certain minimum pace.  So you have to learn what's possible on the given timescale, and to turn what the game gives you early on into a development path that will get you where you need to be by the end game.  You can probably force one play style regardless, but if you're given some great artifacts early on that favor a certain combat style, it would be a waste to try and specialize in crafting or stealth.  Speaking of combat styles, that's my favorite part of the game balance.  I love how it manages the dichotomy between strength and agility based fighters and the different weapon/armor types.  And the game length feels long enough to get invested and not feel like a cheap distraction, but short enough that the repetition doesn't get annoying.

It's the only roguelike I've ever been close to winning.  One time I managed to pry a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown and was only 3 or 4 levels away from escaping, before he managed to trap me in an earthquake-generated pit and beat me to death.  But that was with one of the easy to play elven races.  Don't think I'll ever get to the point of trying human or dwarf.  Basically challenge modes.

[hector13]

But that was with one of the easy to play elven races.

Don't think I'll ever get to the point of [playing a]... dwarf.

Get off the forum and never return.

[Rolan7]

One of the interesting things about Sil is it prevents grinding.  You're forced to progress at a certain minimum pace.  So you have to learn what's possible on the given timescale, and to turn what the game gives you early on into a development path that will get you where you need to be by the end game.  You can probably force one play style regardless, but if you're given some great artifacts early on that favor a certain combat style, it would be a waste to try and specialize in crafting or stealth.  Speaking of combat styles, that's my favorite part of the game balance.  I love how it manages the dichotomy between strength and agility based fighters and the different weapon/armor types.  And the game length feels long enough to get invested and not feel like a cheap distraction, but short enough that the repetition doesn't get annoying.

It's the only roguelike I've ever been close to winning.  One time I managed to pry a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown and was only 3 or 4 levels away from escaping, before he managed to trap me in an earthquake-generated pit and beat me to death.  But that was with one of the easy to play elven races.  Don't think I'll ever get to the point of trying human or dwarf.  Basically challenge modes.

Sounds a lot like the best parts of FTL, from a game design standpoint.
Several routes to success, under a proper roguelike framework where you're likely to die.  But, as in FTL, the consequences aren't so vicious.  Enough to care about your character(s).

But that was with one of the easy to play elven races.

Don't think I'll ever get to the point of [playing a]... dwarf.

Get off the forum and never return.

Hehe, "Naugrim".  Product of a time before certain sensibilities, and even in current day I'm probably overreading it.

It's not nearly as "bad" as Steamband, which uh kinda went whole hog into the stereotypes of "the time", with only recuse in absurdity considering it was made it the 2000's IIRC.

[Tiruin]

In refreshing my bookmarks, and noticed that I lacked a link to re-re-reading the Philippine Pantheon, I re-searched (from earlier bookmark) and found another thorough page, and from that page, found that someone went and drew many of the Gods and Goddesses in Tagalog folklore! Although I would love to see the viewpoint from each and every ethnic group, seeing art from your own country is wonderful (especially since much of our history was wiped out :v). Other than the other artists linked from that page, I really loved the interpretation in artwork and coloration, and how one artist designed the ideas. (part of the art is NSFW, and not displayed on that page, because out of context and in other cultures, showing the breasts is something not okay)

[martinuzz]

I pierced the magma sea today in my 25 year old fortress. With 42 dwarves and a dozen guests, my FPS is still at 71 out of 72 max. I am pretty happy with that.
I still do not dare breach the caverns though, all those nasty trees will surely make it drop.

Admittedly, when human or dwarven caravan arrive, the FPS drops to 55-60. So there's signs of future decline, but still. 25 years. just 1 point loss. Awesome.

[JoshuaFH]

I pierced the magma sea today in my 25 year old fortress. With 42 dwarves and a dozen guests, my FPS is still at 71 out of 72 max. I am pretty happy with that.
I still do not dare breach the caverns though, all those nasty trees will surely make it drop.

Admittedly, when human or dwarven caravan arrive, the FPS drops to 55-60. So there's signs of future decline, but still. 25 years. just 1 point loss. Awesome.

Can you explain the new game mechanics to me? What 'magma sea' 'caverns' and 'nasty trees'? I haven't looked in quite a long time.

[martinuzz]

The magma sea has been ingame forever. Only version that didn't have it was the old 2d version. It's just the common name for all the magma in between the third cavern and the bottom spoiler layers.

The caverns are the three cavern systems that are generated in between the surface and the magma sea. Breaching them will unleash spores in your fort allowing cave trees and crops to randomly spawn on underground soil / muddy tiles, and they are also 3 extra biomes spawning underground wildlife. And Forgotten Beasts.
Breaching any cavern will also start attracting visitors of the monster hunting type to you taverns.
I don't breach them to reduce pathable space in my fort. While not a big bottleneck for FPS, every little bit helps. Plus the caverns have a tendency to spawn wildlife in dumb places which proceed to breed out of control.

With nasty trees I refer to the three dimensional trees that replaced the old single tile trees. While very pretty to look at, they are suspected to be one of the big contributors to FPS loss. My surface is very tree-poor. At most 50 trees spawn per whole year. I guess this is one of the reasons my current fort has much better FPS than other forts of comparable size and population.

Quantum dumping nearly everything quantum-dumpable, and not using bins at all, and barrels only for booze and dwarven syrup probably also helps a ton.

[Rolan7]

There were a few years of the 3D version not having the current cave-magma stuff, actually.  The ground was simply undiggable about... I want to say, 50 levels down?  There could still be underground rivers and caverns, but they were unusual things features you had to search for with the site finder.  Most sites didn't have magma at all!

Those were the versions I played the most, honestly.  I *still* haven't gotten used to the military uniform management that came with the caverns etc.

[EnigmaticHat]

I haven't played the game in a while but IIRC you can make the game generate only ~10 layers of underground (with no caverns too I think?) as a way to reduce lag.

[scriver]

I miss Chasms. They were neat.

But seriously though how did you manage to breach the magma sea without breaching caverns?

[Gentlefish]

Dwarven radar?

[Dunamisdeos]

Long story short, one of our package delivery drivers was suddenly terrified into running from an address when a very angry old Russian lady started screaming I SEE YOU. I SEE YOU. over the 2 way intercom in her terrifying Russian angryvoice.

She thought he was stealing a package, but he was actually switching it out with the right package, since he'd accidentally left the wrong one a couple minutes prior. He had called and cleared it with us prior to the switch.

Everything was explained to all parties, chuckles were had.