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Author Topic: awesomely powerful games  (Read 8523 times)

Ampersand

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2009, 02:40:07 pm »

Battlefront and Battlefront II are much better games than LOTR Conquest, which is alternately stupidly easy and stupidly hard.
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Org

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2009, 02:43:22 pm »

Battlefront and Battlefront II are much better games than LOTR Conquest, which is alternately stupidly easy and stupidly hard.
I thought it was a good game.
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Servant Corps

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2009, 02:54:17 pm »

Quote
Even if you're guarding some shitty wall segment, which is going to fall regardless.

The trick is to repair the wall segment so that, as soon as it falls, it quickly gets back up. This stops the flow of the enemy troops, allowing you to wait it out until you get Yoda and take the battle to the enemy.
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Roundabout Lout

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2009, 04:04:56 pm »

Actraiser on the SNES may only be half fighting/half sim, YOU WERE GOD of that world. I can't think of anything closer to the OP's request.
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Keiseth

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2009, 04:22:39 pm »

Battlefront II is loads of fun. More so if you're not a Jedi. Managing to kill 40+ AI enemies without dying once, while on equal terms in resources is just badass.

I loved the original Black & White... sort of. It felt totally incomplete and seemed like it was trying to be something it didn't want to be. The sandboxy elements were great, but the mission structure was shot to hell. The most appealing part of the game, to me, was the fun AI with the creature. And it seems half of the worlds take away your creature, so... why? Though I still fondly remember my giant cow, Sir Richard Moore.

Actraiser is fantastically awesome. Especially for its time and console.
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Virtz

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2009, 04:22:58 pm »

Quote
Even if you're guarding some shitty wall segment, which is going to fall regardless.

The trick is to repair the wall segment so that, as soon as it falls, it quickly gets back up. This stops the flow of the enemy troops, allowing you to wait it out until you get Yoda and take the battle to the enemy.
I was talking about LOTR: Conquest singleplayer, though. Where in Helm's Deep you have to hold a part of the wall or it's game over. Even though this very wall segment gets blown up later in the battle, if you let it get captured when the scripted objective tells you not to let it, you literally lose the whole damn battle. And every damn objective is like this, if you fail to fulfil it - game over, restart.

Battlefront II was much less of an offender here since these objectives generally weren't hard to carry out (although I think it was game over if you failed any of them as well), but you were thrown around the battlemap like "Defend here!", "Now retreat and defend there!", "Now Attack here!", "Now go and attack there!". At least it featured a galactic conquest mode, where you just went from battle to battle with standard objectives. Although that was pretty inconsistent, like having Ep. 3 Skywalker fighting in the Empire era, so it felt sort of half-assed compared to the main campaign.
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Kagus

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2009, 05:18:03 pm »

That just reminded me of the Battle for Middle Earth (very fine game, if you ask me.  But not the sequel) level with Helm's deep.  No such restrictions.  The objective was "survive".

First time, I almost didn't make it.  I accidentally shot a bomb that had been planted at that wall segment and sent my guys flying.  I tried to hold the wall for a while longer, but there were simply too many of them so I pulled back.

When that first wall goes down, you get to see just what a gloriously f***-ed up design Helm's Deep is in regards to fending off enemies with any degree of competency.  When it went down I was pushed back steadily until I had all my heroes and every peasant I could spew forth from my last two or three buildings fighting right outside the inner sanctum's walls.

And it just went on like that.  The enemy poured through that little gate like a never-ending tide of sword-swinging evil, and I just tried to keep my dudes alive long enough to hold them back.  I seriously thought I was going to lose that time.

Just when it all seemed so hopeless, in came the cavalry.  Or, rather, the ents.  With these new reinforcements I soundly trashed the undefended troop-producing cauldrons and stopped the flow coming in to my weary chaps.  After that it was a breeze of just cleaning up the stragglers.

Easily one of the most intense moments I've ever had in an RTS.  Unless you count Sacrifice as an RTS.


And when I started really getting into the skirmishes, I had another one.  I had set up a match where I buddied up with a medium-difficulty AI ally against two hard-difficulty AI enemies.  Things were going just fine up until about four minutes in, when I glanced at the minimap and noticed something disheartening.  Namely, my ally getting trounced by the joint forces of the two bad-guy AI's.

There was nothing I could do to save him, and I knew what was coming.  I quickly pulled my troops back to the castle (I loved the castles they had in that game.  They actually felt right.  Why they had to completely bugger it up for the sequel is beyond me), started churning out archers and set up the wall defenses.

I then sat in terror as each of my outlying farms was obliterated, one by one, like some sort of sick crumb trail.  After the last one, there was a brief moment of utter horror as I couldn't see the army I *knew* was marching towards me.


And then it came.  Boy howdy, did it ever.  I saw uncountable legions of orcs come spewing out of the fog of war, backed up by catapults, trolls, haradrim, and even a couple siege towers.

Hell had officially been set loose. 


What followed was the most grueling RTS battle of my life, where I furiously clicked in order to keep the walls stocked with archers and to rebuild the wall trebuchets in order to fend off the catapults.  I held them off rather well, which is quite impressive when you've got two hard-AI enemies focusing their sole, concentrated (it was really quite impressive how they lumped their armies together into one seething juggernaut of doom) effort on you and you alone.

I would practically sit on top of the resource meter and wait long enough until I had the paltry fee required to send out another squad of archers.  I tried to circulate them in shifts, so that the experienced squads could rest for a while and restock for free.  But, normally, I didn't have the manpower for that luxury, and they were forced to bleed on the walls till the last man fell.

A couple battering rams then managed to knock down my gate, and I immediately thought "oh bugger, now they've got me".

I'm still not entirely sure how I managed to do it, but I somehow kept the hordes at bay long enough to patch together the gate again.  The feeling of safety didn't last very long though, as it quickly came down for a second time.  Right around when the flying Nazgūl came in to pick off my trebuchets for the umpteenth time.

I soon realized that this was just going to keep going on forever.  I was hanging on by a thread, but I knew that my side had an ace in the hole.  The problem was digging deep enough into the hole to find it.

Gandalf the White, easily the most powerful hero in the game, was sitting in my keep and twiddling his thumbs while awaiting the outrageous fee required to bring him down to the battlefield.  I knew I had the ability to generate the resources...  The problem was that I was currently using them to patch up my defenses.

So I took a chance.  I let my guard down.  This was one of the most harrowing times of the entire battle, just letting them smash away at my walls while I prayed to Necoho that I'd raise the cash in time.

Just as the enemy was pouring into my streets, Gandalf emerged from the doors to dispense with some righteous asswhuppin', wizard-style.  He blasted the hordes to bits while steadily gaining in power from their pathetic carcasses.  I felt as though everything was going my way.  The old fart was my saviour.

So I valiantly picked up the sword once again and put my defenses into full gear, with Gandalf leading the way.  Things were really looking good for me, and I noticed that I was actually starting to beat them back.

But then the old geezer croaked and I had to go through the process all over again.  However, on the second try, he managed to gain enough experience to reach his top-level ability (which essentially wipes out every nasty on the screen).  This made things much easier, and I noticed that the siege, although it was still oppressing me like a rather spiky vice, was starting to look up.  I could keep my defenses in top working order, and still have resources left over.  And the resources were growing.  With a little time, I qould finally have the oomph to take the battle to them.

But then I noticed something weird.  There were no more orcs.  I looked around and found thousands of corpses, but no living ones.  This was odd.

Cautiously, I opened the gates and sent out a scouting party (A.K.A., Gandalf) to look around.  Nobody.


After some more scouting and some outpost-blasting (they had savaged my farmlands and turned them into hideous abominations to fuel their war effort, just like they should), I discovered something.

I had not only killed all the orcs, I had KILLED THE FRIGGIN' AI.  Seriously.  The AI had simply stopped functioning.  They no longer produced units, didn't rebuild structures, didn't do anything.  I happily bounced around and smashed all their utterly undefended strongholds to the ground, and the only resistance came from the automatic arrow towers that had been set up earlier in the game.

I think that I had simply played for so long, with no progress for the AI, that it no longer knew what to do and just snapped.  Quite an accomplishment, I must say.


And to keep this from being utterly off-topic, Gandalf is quite capable of taking on armies by himself, and there are a couple missions in the campaign where you have to use only heroes against a large enemy force.  They're not generally that powerful however (with the exception of Gandalf and Legolas), so it doesn't quite fit.

BfME2 had customizable heroes, and some of them could get quite strong with the proper experience.  But this had problems.  Namely, the skill selection system was so buggered that you really only had three or four choices if you actually wanted a USABLE character, the characters were almost all ugly and had horrid animations (a person who manages to stab themselves with their own sword should not be called a champion of war), and the troll heroes ran like gits and didn't have splash damage attacks LIKE ANY SENSIBLE TROLL.

That, and the rest of the game was fluorescent puke.

But, if you really wanted to, you could essentially design a solo character capable of taking on armies by himself when he reached the highest level.  But you'd have to put up with everything else just to get one very small benefit. 

In conclusion, this post is useless and I should go to bed.

Servant Corps

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2009, 06:00:28 pm »

Quote
I was talking about LOTR: Conquest singleplayer, though. Where in Helm's Deep you have to hold a part of the wall or it's game over. Even though this very wall segment gets blown up later in the battle, if you let it get captured when the scripted objective tells you not to let it, you literally lose the whole damn battle. And every damn objective is like this, if you fail to fulfil it - game over, restart.

Ironically, Samurai Warriors, in the Dynasty Warriors series of games, doesn't have it. You do have two main mission objective, of course...Defend your Commander and kill the Other Side's Commander, but you also have lesser mission objectives (DEFEND THIS WALL!). If the wall falls though, that just means that the enemy grows more powerful, more able to gain more troops, and more likely to kill your commander. The loss is deveasting, but you can recover from it, especially if the wall falls just as you stumble upon the secret location of the Enemy Commander.
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Cthulhu

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2009, 06:41:42 pm »

Downloading the demo for BfME now, gotta see some of this.

Also, Lord of the Rings Conquest was a huge disappointment.  I wanted to like it so much, but it sucked.  Trolls and the like were so easy to kill they were almost useless, rogues were way overpowered, it was a mess.
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Cheshire Cat

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2009, 07:20:37 pm »

O! i played a game like that but forgot the name. you basically ran around using combos to kill hundreds of men in an army and charge up for an attack the pretty much obliterates everything around you. its just a near endless wave of enemies.

god i wish i could remember its name

forgive me if this has allready been mentioned, but this sounds like any entry in the series of dynasty warriors games. set in some turbulent period in chinas history you can select from an array of overpowered historical figures and jump into battles with thousands of soldiers. you have to fight your way around, sometimes fullfill objectives, and kill enemy officers, who are similarly overpowered characters like yourself. also, you occasionally end up fighting some ai controlled maniac called lu bu, who is retardedly impossible to kill.

characters and story are retardedly overacted, and everyone looks like they stepped out of some crazy japanese animation. also, you can fight from the back of a horse, and recruit either small squads or special individual bodyguards depending on the game who will exclusively follow you around and try and defend you.

as people have mentioned the lotr games were like this a bit. though the conquest one was not as great as the earlier entries in the series. orlando bloom legolas FTW!

also, play serious sam 1 or 2 for a first persion version of this kind of stuff. the selling point of those games are battles with hundreds and hundreds of enimies, with a few that are the size of skyscrapers. the second one has more of the crazy, it can handle much larger battles. highlight for me are the headless guys holding a cartoonish looking bomb in each hand who run at you screaming hysterically. its a little like some of the huge masses of enimies you got in bits of the original doom games, only bigger. and with coop.
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Torak

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2009, 08:42:05 pm »

characters and story are retardedly overacted, and everyone looks like they stepped out of some crazy japanese animation.

Whoa there, I liked the guy who voiced Cao Ren. Cao Ren especially stands out as a well-voiced character. Pang De too, but for some reason that took him out in the latest installment.
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Servant Corps

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2009, 08:43:37 pm »

And I liked Lu Bu... :(
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Cthulhu

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2009, 10:59:48 pm »

Lu Bu was so overpowered...


On BfME.  I downloaded the demo for the second game because I couldn't find the first.  I couldn't play it.  DoW has spoiled me.  Animations were too boring, and the units models themselves looked like they had been ripped from Die By the Sword.
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Neonivek

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2009, 05:07:50 am »

Quote
Lu Bu was so overpowered

In terms of a playable character? No

In terms of mission? Yes pretty much.

Then again if you wanted great gameplay you wouldn't still be playing Dynasty Warriors
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Kagus

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Re: awesomely powerful games
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2009, 05:21:14 am »

BfME 2 is a rather spectacular disappointment.  They did have quite a few lame models/textures, but the biggest failure was the actual gameplay.  The models and animations in the first one aren't really that much better, but everything fits together.  No more glaringly bad models that just screech their poor designs across the screen.

I don't even know if the first BfME HAD a demo...  I picked up the box at Costco and mistook it for another game I had played a demo for.  I marveled at how much they had changed since the demo version...

And then I found out I had bought a completely different game.


At first I was smacking myself in the face for being such a goon, but then I started playing the thing and found it to be far superior to the game I had originally intended to buy.  Fun stuff.

DoW is an exceptionally pretty game, no doubt about it.  Even if they do cause some strange balancing issues, sync-kill animations are one of the greatest RTS innovations I've ever witnessed.  However, it is a completely different game from BfME.  Well, mostly different, at any rate.  Okay, somewhat different.

The point is, it's one of the only RTS games I've played were sieges actually felt like sieges.  Rohan and Gondor players start off with walled castles, and they can actually move troops around on those walls.  Enemy troops can choose between trying to knock down the gate (which has substantially fewer hit points than the wall sections), climbing over the wall (siege towers/ladders.  Speaking of ladders, you can get a certain type of unit to sit on top of the ladder while it's carried to the wall.  As soon as they get there, the unit will jump off and start murdering archers), launching a bombardment over the wall (really only suitable for Mordor players, with their catapults that can shoot either burning rocks of death or bundles of bones that scare off enemy troops), or just trying to crunch through one of the wall sections (not really recommended, but it has its advantages).

Also, you really will encounter hordes of units.  Sadly, the population cap is set a bit low (and only lifted in the sequel, f***in' bastards), so you won't be able to unleash the full fury of war as much as you'd like.  However, this doesn't stop Mordor players from taking advantage of the fact that basic orcs can be produced for free.  Yes, that's right, free.  Just set up an orc pit early on and set it to repeatedly churn out the disgusting fools.  And, it will still have more units than DoW (except for the Ork Swarm mod, naturally).

DoW is more about fighting on the field, with everyone in relatively the same position strategically speaking.  BfME is more about sieging, with defined oppressor-defender roles (this never stopped me from sieging Gondor as the "barbarian horde" of Rohan, mind you) and combat based around defensive positions.  If you're into stuff like that (which I most certainly am), then you're gold.

See if you can find some pictures of the old BfME.  Most of the new units in BfME 2 looked like crap, but I don't remember the old ones standing out all that much (still inferior to DoW, but that's asking a lot).


And if you're interested in playing it but not interested in paying for it, I personally would have no qualms if you found other means of acquiring it.  Not that my blessing is a particularly important selling point, but it's not like EA needs the money.
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