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Author Topic: Surgery/Medicine in DF  (Read 26632 times)

Mel_Vixen

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #150 on: March 03, 2009, 06:30:30 pm »

Local believes on the working certain stuff .... damn another thing i have to consider and adress (i work on a program with working information spread system).

Well for me it works as long not every stuff that is believed to be magical has to involve magic out of the fact people believe in it.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #151 on: March 03, 2009, 06:32:28 pm »

"So far I am really into this conversation"

I am too! It's good stuff. I just want to ensure that it doesn't devolute into bickering--which so far it hasn't, but that's my concern.
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Neonivek

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #152 on: March 03, 2009, 06:36:11 pm »

One thing that I should state is that Magic and Religion should remain seperate yet capable of diverging.

Just because Garlic may have the ability to ward off evil and thus aid with poison... Doesn't mean they consider it a magical effect
-Note: Interestingly enough Garlic does have some interesting abilities when it comes to healing. The reason they say it works may be off, but goodness were they ever on the right track.

Also, just because Real magic exists it also shouldn't mean that non-magic should be instantly ruled out as non-magical.

Just because people can shoot lightning somehow, doesn't mean they should suddenly understand or recognise that Honey doesn't stop infection via magic.

A Great Medical based Adventurer may even have to delve into what others consider the supernatural to master his/her craft.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 06:38:24 pm by Neonivek »
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #153 on: March 03, 2009, 06:52:51 pm »

The question would be if every person can use magic and to which extend ^^.

Also the alchimists didnt know much at first about chemics. Most of the stuff did come by trial and error.

Hermetics even bound Magics and divine interventions in many of theyr Knowledge and philosphy.

Magics should to some extend be a "science" but i think that goes to much into the Magic discussion. What i wanted to say is that understanding of magics and usage of Magics are two different pairs of shoes.

A Great magical healer should also need to learn about mundane healing to get the full scope of abilitys.

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Pilsu

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #154 on: March 03, 2009, 07:04:04 pm »

Potion doesn't imply magic... Looked it up.

there is a reason why "Magic Potion" isn't redundant.

While not entirely redundant, magic is usually involved. Wikipedia would back that up for instance


The difference between Science and Magic Pilsu is that Science is explained. Do you really need everything to be explained?

If feasible, sure. Tack on superstitions if you must but there's no reason for leaves and roots to be magical if all they do is relieve pain or help a rash heal. That's fairly mundane and magic is anything but


No they arn't because not only do they only appear in "Good alligned" places but the "Good Alligned" locations are going to be gone by next release.

Herd animals only living in subregions, while endangered, can't be considered mystical and truly rare to the point of such importance. Might as well make your golden apples grow there in large numbers. So much for rarity


You mean like Nanobots, Stem Cells, Anti-sceptics, or any other kind of medicine. The real difference is that Magic doesn't have lists already drawn up for you while science already has everything down. Otherwise there is little difference between Magic and Science and your starting to harp against "Magic" that can be just as easily done with Science of the same level especially for a fantasy setting.

I consider LOLNANOMACHINES to be even worse of a cop out, thank you very much. Pretending it works on biological basis is enough. A bad handwave is worse than none at all

I like how you included antiseptics in that list. I wonder what kind of stories you read if antiseptics are treated as phlebotinum akin to magic



Well I don't lump everything within magic. For the most part I put Souls into a category of Praetornatural. Though I recognise that in this setting the mind is held within the soul so that any mind control would have to be within the realm of Soul Control. So I guess Id have to allow Magic to influence Souls. Mind you that perhaps Toady can allow the Brain to have an effect on the Soul too, but it makes more sense that the brain serve as a bridge especially for multiple soul possessions. Though Psychology is just as good as any magic! Why use a magic spell when you can simply torchure them into insanity?

Altering the Soul can be done with a Simple sharp rock Pilsu. You just have to know how to apply it!

That does sound good, certainly better than plain pseudoscience psychology. On the other hand, I don't really know what Toady means with "soul"


Wonder if the game could support superstitions not based on reality at all. People THINKING unicorn horn powder is mystical when it's actually just bone, people trying to scam others with powdered cow bone etc
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Neonivek

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #155 on: March 03, 2009, 07:08:43 pm »

Souls as far the Dwarf Fortress are concerned is the Personality, Knowledge, Mental Attributes, and skills of an individual.

Basically most of what you would associate with the brain.

It goes as far as allowing multiple souls to be inside a single body as well as partially explaining how a soulless body would function (though something else could be coded in)

There is all this stuff on it... Armok 1 notes give a good grasp on it.

Though it is still pending.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #156 on: March 03, 2009, 07:27:33 pm »

Iirc Toady said that the brain can have effects on the soul but a brain isnt needed for having a soul. He also did state that a sould can inhabit multiple bodies at the same time (Zomby and its cut lose hand).

The soul is the collection of softskills and personality.
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Warlord255

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #157 on: March 07, 2009, 12:16:15 pm »

Glee! Toady is starting to juggle around healthcare. To the top, thread!
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Neonivek

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #158 on: March 07, 2009, 12:23:17 pm »

Glee! Toady is starting to juggle around healthcare. To the top, thread!

I don't know if we have much else to speak about... other then I guess

Along with Medicine we should also allow Medicines to present a certain amount of toxicity so that curing wounds, toxins, and diseases could in fact be harmful.

So far we spoke about Medicines that don't work that only harm. So Why not medicines that DO work, they just are harmful to the body. (Which still exists today)

In fact even with non-harmful substances you can kill someone with what you would think is a cure. A sufficiantly dehydrated person would die if you gave them water to drink. I have NO idea if people in this time period had access to the ability to give water to people in this state.

an Interesting bit of Trivia: There is a Tree in Mexico that is poisonous and gives horrible itching (I think it was itching) to anyone who touches it. However a tree that always grows right beside it, is the antidote.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 05:46:55 pm by Neonivek »
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Pilsu

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #159 on: March 07, 2009, 08:28:13 pm »

The way wounds are right now, what do you think could be implemented? I see little need for surgery but setting broken bones and digging arrows out without massive bleeding seems viable. That and antivenom use whenever someone gets bitten
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Neonivek

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #160 on: March 08, 2009, 12:14:03 am »

"I see little need for surgery"

What about saving people from Bleed out due to internal injuries?
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inaluct

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #161 on: March 08, 2009, 12:41:36 am »

"I see little need for surgery"

What about saving people from Bleed out due to internal injuries?
This alone would justify the inclusion of surgery, in my opinion.
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #162 on: March 08, 2009, 06:41:14 am »

Since people have been showing some interest in the research I've been doing for Toady, and since there's a lot of information there that I think could benefit from forum discussion (and also, that I think the question/discussion of whether or not surgery/medicine itself is all that important, could benefit from input on,), here's a copy of the summary I did on 'Outlines of Greek and Roman Medicine' by James Sands Elliott:

http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=329014:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 06:46:35 am by SirHoneyBadger »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Re: Surgery/Medicine in DF
« Reply #163 on: March 08, 2009, 06:42:53 am »

Sorry, the Forum wouldn't allow it to be posted in a single piece (Please note--the book itself is a lot more entertaining, and somewhat more informative as well, taken as a whole.):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 06:44:40 am by SirHoneyBadger »
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SirHoneyBadger

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Reserved for Volunteer Submissions.
« Reply #164 on: March 15, 2009, 05:55:28 pm »

Once the OP is full, volunteer submissions will go here.
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