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[Bandages]

Only one more thing to bug test!?

Great Armok, it's almost here!

[John Keel]

Alright, so females may or may not have beards. A far more pressing question is:
Is more than one beard possible? Or does it require multiple heads?

[smjjames]

can a custom workshop require multiple items to build

Yes.  The building raws that Toady posted use multiple build items.

and whats the maximum number of different item types that can be set as a requirement? Like 10 bone, 2 metal bars, 20 rope/chain, etc.

There's no maximum you'd ever have to worry about.  Tens of thousands or more, most likely.

You seem to have linked to the wrong page, but I'll take your word for it.

@Bandages: More llike a few more, but it does sound like we are in the final stretch. Hard to tell whether the lake extending far underground is a bug, but having it mess up the magma below is definetly a bad thing depending on the circumstances.

[Quatch]

Assuming you have no fancy irrigation techniques for stone-layer farming, only the topmost layer will be soil, right? And then, you're digging into them, presumably letting the cold outside air creep in. Depending on the climate for how long the temperature stays below freezing, it's understandable for the ground to become hard enough that fungi wouldn't be able to break through and form roots. Or, for that matter, for it to be simply cold enough that they couldn't grow.

Permafrost doesn't penetrate that far into the ground, at not not that for for Dwarf Fortress. It would depend on air currents and circulation.

On my really cold maps I try to keep the fortress heated with magma in-between layers to keep everything toasty.

I think there are some misconceptions here: Underground will stay 'warm'* year around unless directly (some tunnel allowed, but more==less effect) exposed to outside air. You get ~25C/km(2nd sentence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geotherm) as you go down, which quickly overwhelms atmosphere.

*permafrost happens where mean air temperature  over the year is <0. It can get very deep (it grows continuously until the geothermal gradient overtakes) (end 2nd para: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permafrost).

As to DF's model: you're safe, there is no permafrost and the ground doesn't freeze even in winter. If it did, you could keep underground safe by closing the door to keep the cold air out, or heating with magma. Best to put a magma register in each room.

[Acanthus117]

With the custom buildings, Kobold Fortress will be even awesome-er!

We can make real wooden weapons now!

[Samoorai]

I'm counting the hours till I have something to do during my huge breaks between my university classes. And all other waking hours. Then dreaming about it. Hell, after playing dragon age for a bit I just wanted to play DF even more. I just need some suitably monolithic above ground structure ideas.

[tfaal]

Okay, I just had a dream about DF being released, then woke up and felt very sad. I get the sense that this is not something that should happen to a normal person.

[Acanthus117]

Okay, I just had a dream about DF being released, then woke up and felt very sad. I get the sense that this is not something that should happen to a normal person.

That happens to me all the time.

[Samoorai]

Normal is for people not yet touched by the awesome! We are the kind of people who look at a supercomputer and wonder if DF will run on it. One of us! One of us!

[Footkerchief]

Yes.  The building raws that Toady posted use multiple build items.

You seem to have linked to the wrong page, but I'll take your word for it.

It's midway through in a spoiler tag.  Didn't figure you'd need it quoted directly.

Alright, so females may or may not have beards. A far more pressing question is:
Is more than one beard possible? Or does it require multiple heads?

Here's the body detail plan for beards (which references tissues added by another BDP in the same link):

Code: [Select]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:MOUSTACHE:BELOW:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHIN_WHISKERS:BOTTOM]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:CHEEK_WHISKERS]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:SIDEBURNS:IN_FRONT:BY_CATEGORY:EAR]
As you can see, the beard part is a hair layer on the bottom of the head.  Adding another hair layer to the same area would probably cause something strange to happen.  Unless you're happy to make a beard grow on their nose or something, yeah, you'll need another head.

[Shoku]

I for one never heard of anyone not being able to farm because he/she accidentaly hit a hibernating bear.

Then count yourself lucky. I'll never forget that day... so much blood.

But the steakberries were delicious.

I think a partial remedy to food being too easy is to make food variety have more of an impact on dwarf moods.  A couple of years eating nothing but plump helmets should start leading to tantrums or extreme loss in productivity as they start hunting around for different food.

So you are saying that requiring a whopping two 5x5 fields set to grow different things in different seasons would be difficult?

I see nothing wrong with it being difficult for someone who knows what they're doing to fail and starve to death. DFs learning curve is steep enough as it is; making it difficult for an experienced player to succeed at something so simple as feeding your starting 7 would make the game virtually impossible for newcomers.

Perhaps large and/or long-established fields could suffer from pests or blight? Edit: to be dealt with by... what? soap? cats? magma? Maybe not. Can of worms. Nevermind.

If doors slowed the spread of that down people would have to migrate their fields. Plus it would give us a reason to set fields to fallow other than stopping clogging up the stockpiles with unprocessed foods.

guys, don't you think that bearded females would be pretty much gay? there are two major way of picturing dwarves: manly vikings or funny little people, and none of that would be comfortable with manly-looking females.

"Gay"? I don't get it.

Female dwarves being bearded doesn't have to change anything about dwarves, except that their sexes are slightly less physically-differentiated... which is probably already true in some ways, compared to humans, in most perceptions.

Don't you know? The dwarven phallus is made of beard.
That's why they want their beards so big and long, and why it's so horrid to lose the beard.

This turned out to make more sense than intended...

Hehe.

Beards.

ON THE FACE. NOT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I think mine are going to have them somewhere else.

can a custom workshop require multiple items to build

Yes.  The building raws that Toady posted use multiple build items.

and whats the maximum number of different item types that can be set as a requirement? Like 10 bone, 2 metal bars, 20 rope/chain, etc.

There's no maximum you'd ever have to worry about.  Tens of thousands or more, most likely.

Probably be 65535

Have we ever confirmed that as a common limit in DF or do we just assume that's how much memory Toady uses by default?

[Shoku]

Yes.  The building raws that Toady posted use multiple build items.

You seem to have linked to the wrong page, but I'll take your word for it.

It's midway through in a spoiler tag.  Didn't figure you'd need it quoted directly.

Alright, so females may or may not have beards. A far more pressing question is:
Is more than one beard possible? Or does it require multiple heads?

Here's the body detail plan for beards (which references tissues added by another BDP in the same link):

Code: [Select]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:MOUSTACHE:BELOW:BY_CATEGORY:NOSE]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHIN_WHISKERS:BOTTOM]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:CHEEK:CHEEK_WHISKERS]
[BP_LAYERS:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:SIDEBURNS:IN_FRONT:BY_CATEGORY:EAR]
As you can see, the beard part is a hair layer on the bottom of the head.  Adding another hair layer to the same area would probably cause something strange to happen.  Unless you're happy to make a beard grow on their nose or something, yeah, you'll need another head.

With some hand waving you could probably split those left right to have two beards like that.

[GlyphGryph]

Hmm... I wonder if the genetics will ever be civ influenced (one mostly dark skinned, one mostly fair skinned, on much taller on average...).

If so, I think bearded female dwarves existing but being more or less common in some civs would be a reasonable compromise.

But the genetics probably isnt that complicated yet.

[AbacusWizard]

i can't decide on whether i would rather have dwarfettes bearded or no...
DnD they are not, LotR they are...

if female beards are toggleable, well, i have no idea what to do.

In WoW they aren't..... so thats 2 against one.

D&D and WoW hardly count, as they're largely LotR ripoffs anyway, so any instances in which D&D or WoW differ from LotR can simply be considered errors on the parts of TSR or Blizzard respectively.

As for LotR itself, I don't think there's anything in the main text discussing female beards, or even mentioning female dwarves at all--the only dwarves that even make an appearance are Gimli and (briefly) Gloin. Female dwarves are mentioned in The Hobbit (Fili and Kili are sons of Thorin's sister, I think), but that's it. However: the extensive appendices to LotR do state, if I remember correctly, that female dwarves are visually indistinguishable from male dwarves to the extent that most of the aboveworld races don't even realize that there are female dwarves, so that could certainly be read as implying beards.

In any event if we want any sort of realism the question we should be asking ourselves first is: why DON'T female humans have beards? And why do male humans have beards? My guess for males is that a thick full beard is a show of healthiness and excess resources (protein), much like a lion's mane or a peacock's fan, although in all three of these cases I'm not entirely certain why females don't have corresponding structures.

[smjjames]

Yes.  The building raws that Toady posted use multiple build items.

You seem to have linked to the wrong page, but I'll take your word for it.

It's midway through in a spoiler tag.  Didn't figure you'd need it quoted directly.

Oh, durr My brain just wasn't totally awake yet I guess.


@AbacusWizard: What about the Silmarillion?