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[Gamerlord]

In other news, Dith (shadow god) worshipping Troll/Ogre is ridiculously hilarious. It fucks up a lot untol you get your hands on a giant spiked club, but sneaking up on enemies and slamming them with a massively damaging club is so fun. Plus if you make it far enough to get his final power, becoming invisible on command as a Troll/Ogre is pretty fun even if you aren't a stealth type. I actually find Dith an interesting choice for melee fighters who are not concerned about the equipment drops from Trog and Oka. The fact that your shadow strokes with you at times is like a melee-oriented Battlesphere, which is an intriguing prospect.

[Mr Space Cat]

Your shadow will also occasionally cast spells or shoot projectiles with you. Had a halfling assassin of Dith once, occasionally the shadow would cast ensorcelled hibernation or confuse or something right after I did. It was useful for trying to put resistant monsters to sleep faster, but occasionally both spells would work on the monster, and the shadow's spell would wind up canceling out the effect. That was funny to see.

It will also mimic your throwing. If you throw a tomahawk of returning, your shadow will throw a tomahawk that disappears into a puff of smoke upon hitting. Might be useful for an ogre who throws boulders.

[Damiac]

I find certain things get repeated often enough on the crawl forums that they become 'common knowledge'.

Chei is worse than no god is probably one of the more common ones.

Yet, you see plenty of people who have fantastic success when playing Chei characters.  So I would suspect the main issue is that Chei makes you play so differently than usual that 'good' players find their typical strategy doesn't work with him, so therefore he sucks.  Typical crawl strategy is "Caste haste, win" which is incompatible with Chei.

The crawl community is pretty small, so it becomes an echo chamber.  It used to be that GDR was the most important thing in the world, according to them. Now, you're an idiot if you even think about GDR.

Although on the subject of GDR, after looking at FSIM results, I would agree with the general consensus that overall it's quite insignificant, and if you just judge armor based on EV + AC, you'll pick the right armor (That is to say, the one that reduces the most damage to you).  If you've got a choice between 10% higher GDR, or 1 AC point, take the 1 AC point.

[Dr Feelgood]

All this Chei talk made me roll a FoEE of Chei.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1 (tiles) character file.

Demos the Fighter (Formicid Earth Elementalist)    Turns: 37950, Time: 05:47:33

HP 129/129       AC 12     Str 31      XL: 16   Next:  3%
MP  36/36        EV 15     Int 37      God: Cheibriados [******]
Gold 782         SH 18     Dex 26      Spells: 10 memorised,  4 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     G - +2 short sword (elec)
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     I - +5 ring mail "Psuunwua" {rC++ rN+ Int+2 SInv}
rNeg   + + .     Conserve .     r - +1 buckler
rPois  .         rCorr    .     (helmet unavailable)
rElec  .         rRot     .     j - +0 cloak {+Inv}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Warding  +     F - +0 pair of boots
Saprov . . .     Stasis   +     Z - amulet of warding
MR     +....                    l - +1 ring of strength
                                D - +6,+5 ring of slaying

@: very slow, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: permanent stasis, dig shafts and tunnels, four strong arms, antennae 3,
blurry vision 1, spit poison 2
a: Dig, Shaft Self, Spit Poison, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step
From Time, Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 2 of the Orcish Mines.
You worship Cheibriados.
Cheibriados is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 22 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.

You have collected 2102 gold pieces.
You have spent 1320 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 g - the +9,+9 Staff of Wucad Mu
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)
 y - a +3 blowgun
 E - a +0,+1 short sword of distortion {!w}
 G - a +2,+2 short sword of electrocution (weapon)
Missiles
 b - 30 stones (quivered)
 t - 3 throwing nets
 v - 24 poisoned needles
 M - 3 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 j - a +0 cloak of darkness (worn)
 r - a +1 buckler (worn)
 x - a +2 leather armour of magic resistance
 F - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 I - the +5 ring mail "Psuunwua" (worn) {rC++ rN+ Int+2 SInv}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 J - a +0 cloak
 K - a +2 scale mail of fire resistance
Magical devices
 e - a wand of flame (4)
 h - a wand of lightning (1)
 n - a wand of invisibility (1)
 w - a wand of digging {zapped: 4}
 A - a wand of magic darts {zapped: 1}
 W - a wand of digging
 Y - a wand of polymorph {zapped: 9}
Comestibles
 a - 6 bread rations
 d - 2 rotting chunks of orc flesh
 m - 2 meat rations
 u - a choko
Scrolls
 c - 2 scrolls of fog
 f - 3 scrolls of fear
 i - a scroll of amnesia
 o - a scroll of remove curse
 z - a scroll of identify
Jewellery
 l - a +1 ring of strength (right hand)
 D - a +6,+5 ring of slaying (left hand)
 O - an uncursed ring of invisibility
 Z - an amulet of warding (around neck)
Potions
 k - 5 potions of curing
 p - a potion of resistance
 q - a potion of agility
 B - a potion of might
 H - 2 potions of heal wounds
 P - a potion of brilliance
 Q - a potion of lignification
Miscellaneous
 s - a phial of floods (inert)


   Skills:
 + Level 12.4 Fighting
 - Level 1.3 Armour
 + Level 5.0 Dodging
 - Level 8.0 Stealth
 - Level 10.0 Shields
 + Level 12.2 Spellcasting
 - Level 10.5 Conjurations
 - Level 1.0 Charms
 + Level 2.8 Summonings
 - Level 2.2 Necromancy
 - Level 1.1 Transmutations
 - Level 10.6 Earth Magic
 - Level 11.0 Invocations
 + Level 7.7 Evocations


You have 4 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Sandblast             Erth           ######       1%          1    None
b - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ######....   1%          3    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
d - Petrify               Trmt/Erth      ######..     1%          4    None
e - Lee's Rapid Deconstr  Erth           #######...   1%          5    None
f - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ####..       1%          2    None
g - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ####......   2%          3    None
h - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   3%          6    ###....
i - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          17%         5    None
j - Flight                Chrm/Air       ####......   4%          3    None
Chei is still fun. I haven't tried his new ability yet. It looks interesting. The lack of teleport will probably get me killed sooner or later.

[moocowmoo]

I find certain things get repeated often enough on the crawl forums that they become 'common knowledge'.

Chei is worse than no god is probably one of the more common ones.

You make it as if people repeat things mindlessly with no reasoning given. Speed is incredibly powerful and important. Spriggan is one of the strongest races... it would be one of the worst if you simply took its speed away. If a player is already good there's no harm recommending Chei, but new players are going to handicap themselves if they choose a god that significantly alters the basic concepts of positioning, teaching them to do the opposite of what they should do on non-Chei characters.

[tompliss]

The lack of teleport will probably get me killed sooner or later.

Reading that is enough to understand you haven't tried her abilities c:
Bend time is pretty much blink enemies at range to you and enemies in melee away from you, without moving you.
Step from Time is pretty much a teleport without the possibility of getting into a dangerous place if you weren't in one before.

[Dr Feelgood]

The lack of teleport will probably get me killed sooner or later.

Reading that is enough to understand you haven't tried her abilities c:
Bend time is pretty much blink enemies at range to you and enemies in melee away from you, without moving you.
Step from Time is pretty much a teleport without the possibility of getting into a dangerous place if you weren't in one before.

I never lost with Chei. 4 wins with the bro god.

2 DDNe, MDEE, MfTm 

Bend Time is a slow effect. If you're talking about Temporal Distortion:

I haven't tried his new ability yet.

Step from Time is nice, but sometimes a monster won't leave your LOS.

[tompliss]

Oh, didn't remember that part... writing in the forum while at work isn't always is the best option ... :-°

Anyway, yeah, Step from time benefits from your stealth, I think. I mean, if you're stealthy, monsters forget about you earlier so they might wander further away. But it depends greatly on the dungeon's layout ^^

[Dr Feelgood]

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1 (tiles) character file.

1486004 Demos the Slayer (level 27, 231/231 (233) HPs)
             Began as a Formicid Earth Elementalist on May 7, 2014.
             Was the Champion of Cheibriados.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes on May 12, 2014!
             
             The game lasted 21:07:51 (87379 turns).

Demos the Slayer (Formicid Earth Elementalist)     Turns: 87379, Time: 21:07:51

HP 231/231 (233) AC 35     Str 31      XL: 27
MP  42/43        EV 25     Int 38      God: Cheibriados [******]
Gold 1588        SH 46     Dex 22      Spells: 15 memorised,  0 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis +     C - +3 Elemental Staff {rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5}
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     A - +5 fire dragon armour
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     o - +0 large shield
rPois  +         rCorr    .     (helmet unavailable)
rElec  +         rRot     .     L - +2 cloak {+Inv}
SustAb + .       Spirit   .     z - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     F - +0 pair of boots
Saprov . . .     Stasis   +     J - amulet of clarity
MR     ++++.                    D - +6,+5 ring of slaying
                                b - ring of sustain abilities

@: deflect missiles, regenerating, stone skin, slightly contaminated, glowing,
very slow, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: permanent stasis, dig shafts and tunnels, four strong arms, antennae 3,
blurry vision 1, breathe flames 1, clumsy 2, deterioration 1, dopey 1, fast
metabolism 1, spit poison 2
a: Dig, Shaft Self, Spit Poison, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step
From Time, Renounce Religion, Breathe Fire, Evoke Invisibility
0: Orb of Zot
}: 3/15 runes: barnacled, silver, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was exalted by your worship.
You were full.

You visited 9 branches of the dungeon, and saw 53 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Wizlab.

You collected 8184 gold pieces.
You spent 6596 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 g - the +9,+9 Staff of Wucad Mu
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)
 C - the +3,+3 Elemental Staff (weapon) {rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   It affects your AC (+5).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 R - the +3 blowgun of the Tiger {evade, +Inv Int+2}
   (You took it off a mermaid on level 5 of the Shoals)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+5 to EV).
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It lets you turn invisible.
Missiles
 E - 20 darts of dispersal (quivered)
 N - 7 curare-tipped needles
Armour
 o - a +0 large shield (worn)
 z - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 A - a +5 fire dragon armour (worn)
 F - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 L - a +2 cloak of darkness (worn)
Magical devices
 m - a wand of frost (9)
 t - a wand of magic darts (10)
 y - a wand of fire (5)
 Q - a wand of invisibility (3)
 W - a wand of digging (13)
Comestibles
 a - 5 bread rations
 n - 2 pieces of ambrosia
 x - 2 royal jellies
Scrolls
 p - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 G - 3 scrolls of recharging
 I - 2 scrolls of holy word
 M - 2 scrolls of fear
 T - a scroll of summoning
Jewellery
 b - a ring of sustain abilities (left hand)
 d - the ring "Rohuodabb" {Fire rPois Str+2}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   [ring of fire]
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It protects you from poison.
 e - the ring of the Traitor {MR+ Dex+1}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
 f - the amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   [amulet of inaccuracy]
   It affects your evasion (+5).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you fly.
   It protects you from missiles.
 h - an uncursed ring of wizardry
 l - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 r - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 v - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 D - a +6,+5 ring of slaying (right hand)
 J - an amulet of clarity (around neck)
 Z - an uncursed amulet of warding
Potions
 K - a potion of restore abilities
 V - a potion of magic
Magical staves
 P - an uncursed staff of earth
Miscellaneous
 s - a phial of floods (inert)
 w - a legendary deck of war {Foxfire}
 Y - a lamp of fire (inert)
Rods
 q - a +2 rod of clouds (15/15)
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)
 u - a +0 lightning rod (9/9)
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Dungeon)


   Skills:
 + Level 22.8 Fighting
 - Level 12.0 Staves
 + Level 14.6 Armour
 + Level 15.8 Dodging
 - Level 13.8 Stealth
 - Level 15.0 Shields
 - Level 14.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 10.5 Conjurations
 - Level 12.0 Charms
 - Level 6.2 Summonings
 - Level 6.0 Necromancy
 - Level 1.1 Translocations
 - Level 1.1 Transmutations
 + Level 15.6 Earth Magic
 - Level 14.0 Invocations
 - Level 15.3 Evocations


You couldn't memorise any spells.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Orb of Destruction    Conj           #######...   17%         7    ####...
b - Passwall              Trmt/Erth      ######....   1%          3    None
c - Stone Arrow           Conj/Erth      ######       1%          3    None
d - Leda's Liquefaction   Hex/Erth       ######....   1%          4    None
e - Dispel Undead         Necr           ######..     3%          5    None
g - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #######...   1%          3    None
h - Iron Shot             Conj/Erth      #######...   1%          6    #......
i - Shadow Creatures      Summ           N/A          3%          5    None
j - Flight                Chrm/Air       ######....   1%          3    None
k - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
l - Apportation           Tloc           #####.....   1%          1    None
m - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
n - Stoneskin             Trmt/Erth      ######....   1%          2    None
o - Abjuration            Summ           ######....   1%          3    None
p - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ######....   21%         6    #......

Formicid is an interesting species. Permastasis is annoying, but immunity to slow and paralysis is nice. Shaft Self is okay, if you use it before getting into a dangerous situation. I only used it a few times, as I rarely found myself in trouble. Temporal Distortion is great. I thought it was a "blink others closer" type ability from the description. It's actually a mini Step from Time. It lasts long enough for harmful clouds/summons to disappear, and for orbs of destruction to harmlessly crash into walls.

The spider nest was laughably easy, due to my wand of invisibility. Only two enemies in there have see invisible. Oddly, ghost moths can't see invisible despite being invisible. The rest of the game was uneventful, except the Orb run. Fleeing from pan lords and fiends required using Step from Time a couple of times.

[Mr Space Cat]

I would've thought stasis would prevent all of Chei's abilities. Huh. Also that's a hella nice staff you got there.

BTW dudes, there's a new trunk build with a new development branch. Includes two new gods complete with abilities and various small changes, like removing the book of war chants and all its spells, including lethal infusion, summon elemental got removed, ID scrolls now always ID one item, and wanderers got a slight buff to their starting equipment. Full details here.

Might be worth checking it out.

[frostshotgg]

Qazlal's description is very funny with the Butt to Cloud extension. Just throwing that out there.

[Robsoie]

Identify scrolls now always identify a single item

Hmm ? in the past 1 identify scroll was used to identify an item , then the scroll disappeared and couldn't be used for another item, you had to find another scroll.
What is different there ?

[lemon10]

ID scrolls had a chance to identify multiple items if you were lucky.

Now ghouls can't use weapons?

I could be wrong, but the line: "Ghouls and necrophages can no longer equip weapons or armour." means enemy ghouls you encounter, not player ghouls.

[Robsoie]

Ah yes, now that you mention it i remember having it sometime was identifying 2 or 3 potions, i assumed it was just my character having got enough level to do that.
Though it was rare (at least for me) so i'm not sure it will impact that much future character with that change.

[Rex_Nex]

Ah yes, now that you mention it i remember having it sometime was identifying 2 or 3 potions, i assumed it was just my character having got enough level to do that.
Though it was rare (at least for me) so i'm not sure it will impact that much future character with that change.

It probably wont have a meaningful impact at all, I'm sure the change was more for uniformity.