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[Aoi]

My guess on the wands is that they replicate scroll/potion effects in a rechargable form, and they're quite potent.

I'm not so sure about that sandblast change, either...

[debvon]

If this is being done for the sake of streamlining or cutting the fat- what about vacuuming rocks adds to game play? Having the option to switch to rocks for bigger sandblasts meant something until I had 150 rocks (and by then I'd usually have upgraded). Cutting down the amount of spawned rocks would solve the problem. Now that the spell is cauterized and rocks are essentially arrows for a bow, isn't that itself more fat to cut? I don't want to pile on, and while I appreciate the fact that the game is still alive and old versions are available, this is garbage.

Complaining here won't do anything, but neither will complaining on the official forums or on their survey apparently. Seems like the game is at the mercy of sawbones devs who don't capitulate to feedback they disagree with.

[TheDarkStar]

What change is being made to Sandblast?

[debvon]

Per popular demand, Sandblast now consumes stones directly from the inventory. As part of the change, it no longer functions without ammo, and large rocks can’t be used at all. (Earth Elementalists get more stones to compensate.)

[TheDarkStar]

Eh. I'd rather they removed the mechanic entirely.

[Not good with names]

Well, the wands thinking I can understand, as those really skewed the consumable game.  You'd typically get 5-15 of those items, but with a wand it makes the range of usage to something like 50-100.  So if you're trying to pair away the randomness and make consumables a more weight-y decision, that's not a terrible thing.  There's also some gameplay that they probably thought they could live without like Tele-ninjaing every rune, the acquirement 'always choose wands until you have those three' wisdom and the way something like an early heal wounds wand can mess up the game's difficulty curve.  That said, this will definitely reduce the amount of runes I personally gather, but I do like the idea that it makes the game more intuitive (fewer Obscure mechanics) and will make combat encounters more about deciding whether to engage rather than whether to run away once it's obvious you chose poorly (Other than a handful of times, barring god abilities).

As for High Elves, I did like their super hybrid abilities.  They are pretty much Mf or Ha without the special mechanics though, so I can't complain too loud about that.

[Ozarck]

"Oh, that was a close one. They are almost getting three runes now. What should we do? Take away the wands of course! We'll call it 'in the interest of strategic thinking.'"

Yeah. Those wands are OP maybe for the experts and speed runners, but I'll stick with 0.17 thanks.

[Arcvasti]

The thing with the wands was that they were really freaking strong and swingy. At least the Heal Wounds one was, I never remember to use Haste and teleport scrolls are usually common enough that a wand of it isn't THAT much of a boost. Getting one drop guarantees 3-6 uses of a useful consumable up front. At almost any stage of the game, that's very significant for a single floor drop. But they also let you turn scrolls of recharging[Which are otherwise of questionable usefulness] into that same consumable. Over the course of a 3-rune game, that's a lot of consumables that you got because of one drop. That's pretty silly. There's also the fact that they're in a weird place because they're wands that don't scale with Evocations skill, even though it seems like they should. Before they were removed, I didn't know that and trained Evocations pretty much exclusively for boosting wands of Heal Wounds.

There's also another consistency thing because of their redundancy. Like, your disadvantages shouldn't be situationally crippling depending on a single drop. Ru's Sacrifice Drink makes you unable to drink potions if you've recently taken damage, but doesn't affect Heal Wounds wands. So, with a Heal Wounds wand, its very close to a free star and a half of piety. But otherwise, its a major drawback, that I'd say would be worth two full stars of piety instead. Or even look at Ru's Sacrifice Evocations. Its one of the hugest sacrifices, giving three full stars of piety in exchange for losing access to a bunch of options. But if you don't find one of the three removed wands, then that sacrifice gives you three stars of piety for a much lesser drawback[Especially if you've also Sacrificed Love].

Basically, the devs had to balance around the fact that the three strongest wands were exceptions to a lot of rules. Now that those exceptions are removed, they no longer have to do that. This is a good thing.

That said, Deep Dwarves are even dumber now. Here's hoping they get the axe[heh] next.


High Elves... I didn't like them. I WANTED to like them. I wrote up a post a while back defending them. But they were just so bad. Deep Elves or Tengu made better blasters and Merfolk or Humans or Draconians or Demigods[or Nagas, even] made better hybrids. Maybe they'll just give Deep Elves 10% more hp, since I don't think there are currently any races that have 10% anymore.

[Sarrak]

Heal wounds removal is good for 3~5-runes, which is the game devs try to perfect endlessly. But now many otherwise viable endgame/Zig clearing strategies are self-defeating. Lichform doesn't allow you to drink. Mummies can't drink (=use Gozag, period). It would be even harder trying to clear full Zig with a warrior (practicaly no haste and renevable heal), if only you don't scum on Abyss before.

High elves were good in that they were good hybrids with great stats (next to demi-gods), while they still could worship gods. Deep Dwarves with no wand... Erm.

As late-game player, I don't like these changes. They are good for the short game, but unless something great is done to compensate, 0.17-0.18-(0.19) would be the only versions I play.

[Aoi]

Yeeeeah, I totally forgot about DD, don't play them. What are people doing with them now?

[Robsoie]

noticed this :

Deep Dwarves’ wand recharge ability has been replaced with a self-healing ability that has a chance of decreasing their max MP whenever it’s used.

DD will then have a more difficult time on longer play than before, with max MP getting lower and lower (limiting their spell use in the same way), as i guess the "chance of decreasing" will mean 100% of the time for unlucky player like me

As previously the loss of maxMP would only occur when recharging a healing wand, assuming you didn't find any more of them, or didn't found recharge scrolls, probably mean after that nerf the Deep Dwarves will get removed in a couple of update .

[TheDarkStar]

noticed this :

Deep Dwarves’ wand recharge ability has been replaced with a self-healing ability that has a chance of decreasing their max MP whenever it’s used.

DD will then have a more difficult time on longer play than before, with max MP getting lower and lower (limiting their spell use in the same way), as i guess the "chance of decreasing" will mean 100% of the time for unlucky player like me

As previously the loss of maxMP would only occur when recharging a healing wand, assuming you didn't find any more of them, or didn't found recharge scrolls, probably mean after that nerf the Deep Dwarves will get removed in a couple of update .

You seem to have accidentally clicked and instead of  and  .

/jk

[Ozarck]

Well, this is a promising run.

I just killed the Royal jelly with a rod of ignition. Those sure are fun!

I have three runes, and have cleared lair, all three lair branches, orc and elf, and vaults to 4.

I am considering going on down to vaults:5 next, though my last character died there, and this one will almost certainly attract a lot of attention. But I think he may be up to the task, if I am careful. What do you guys think?

I have found exactly one headgear in the entire dungeon: the hat I am wearing. Can you believe that? Seriously, ctrl + f + 'helmet' yields no results.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17.0 (tiles) character file.

284 the Cardsharp (Demonspawn Fighter)             Turns: 88065, Time: 09:27:45

Health: 175/175    AC: 47    Str: 21    XL:     22   Next: 13%
Magic:  44/44      EV: 16    Int: 12    God:    Nemelex Xobeh [*****.]
Gold:   4858       SH: 19    Dex: 22    Spells: 0 memorised, 21 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     k - +8 long sword (flame)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  +     X - +15 Maxwell's patent armour {-Cast -Tele rElec MR+ rCorr}
rNeg   + . .     SustAt   .     c - +5 shield
rPois  +         Gourm    .     M - +1 hat {SInv}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     A - +2 cloak {rPois}
rCorr  +         Warding  .     (gloves unavailable)
rMut   .         NoTele   +     j - +2 pair of boots {run}
MR     +++++     NoCast   +     B - amulet of the Four Winds {Clar rN+ MR+++}
Stlth  ..........               y - ring "Jattoal" {MP+9 Str+2 Dex+4}
                                b - ring of the Philosopher {rElec rC+ SInv}

@: quick, almost entirely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely
unstealthy
A: claws 3, iridescent scales 3, demonic guardian 2, fire resistance 1, foul
stench 1, rot immunity
a: Triple Draw, Deal Four, Stack Five, Renounce Religion
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Nemelex Xobeh.
Nemelex Xobeh is extremely pleased with you.
You are very full.

You have visited 9 branches of the dungeon, and seen 49 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Bailey and Ice Cave.

You have collected 5313 gold pieces.
You have spent 359 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 k - a +8 long sword of flaming (weapon)
Armour
 c - a +5 shield (worn)
 j - a +2 pair of boots of running (worn)
 A - a +2 cloak of poison resistance (worn)
 M - a +1 hat of see invisible (worn)
 X - the +15 Maxwell's patent armour (worn) {-Cast -Tele rElec MR+ rCorr}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It prevents spellcasting.
   It prevents most forms of teleportation.
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
Rods
 w - a +4 rod of inaccuracy (11/11)
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
 O - a +6 rod of ignition (14/14)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)
 Q - a +4 rod of destruction (12/12)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)
Jewellery
 b - the ring of the Philosopher (left claw) {rElec rC+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
 t - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 y - the ring "Jattoal" (right claw) {MP+9 Str+2 Dex+4}
   (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of magical power]
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 z - a +6 ring of evasion
 B - the amulet of the Four Winds (around neck) {Clar rN+ MR+++}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   [amulet of clarity]
   
   It provides mental clarity.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 C - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 S - the amulet of Cekugob {Ward -Tele rElec rPois rN++ AC+1 EV+1}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   [amulet of warding]
   
   It may prevent the melee attacks of summoned creatures.
   It affects your AC (+1).
   It affects your evasion (+1).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It protects you from poison.
   It greatly protects you from negative energy.
   It prevents most forms of teleportation.
Wands
 d - a wand of hasting (5)
 n - a wand of digging (9)
 F - a wand of draining
 K - a wand of cold (4)
Scrolls
 f - 6 scrolls of magic mapping
 l - 11 scrolls of remove curse
 p - a scroll of fog
 D - 6 scrolls of fear
Potions
 r - 2 potions of cancellation
 u - 2 potions of haste
 I - 2 potions of agility
 U - 4 potions of curing
 Y - a potion of resistance
Miscellaneous
 a - a lamp of fire
 h - an ornate deck of escape {the Elixir, left: 4}
 o - an ornate deck of escape {Warpwright, left: 2}
 q - a plain deck of defence {drawn: 3}
 v - a fan of gales
 x - an ornate deck of destruction
 G - a plain deck of summoning {drawn: 2}
 H - a stone of tremors (inert)
 J - an ornate deck of war
 L - an ornate deck of changes {Wild Magic, left: 5}
 N - a phial of floods
 P - an ornate deck of destruction
 T - an ornate deck of war
 V - a disc of storms
 W - a box of beasts
Comestibles
 e - 10 bread rations


   Skills:
 + Level 15.2 Fighting
   Level 12.6(15.5) Short Blades
 - Level 15.0(16.6) Long Blades
 + Level 14.2 Armour
 - Level 12.7 Dodging
 + Level 14.2 Shields
 + Level 18.5 Evocations

Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have claws for hands.
You are completely covered in iridescent scales (AC +8).
A demonic guardian rushes to your aid.
Your flesh is heat resistant.
You may emit foul miasma when damaged in melee.
You are immune to rotting.

2128 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2507 creatures vanquished

[Aoi]

I have found exactly one headgear in the entire dungeon: the hat I am wearing. Can you believe that? Seriously, ctrl + f + 'helmet' yields no results.

At least it's got a handy effect on it. I'm pretty sure I had a complete run a few weeks ago where my best headgear was a measly mundane +2 hat, and I had exactly three sources of rC for Coctyus-- two rings of ice, and that awful artifact animal hide. Skin of Zhor, I think?

If you're worried about the entry to Vaults:5, and... I would be, given your resistances and the lovely -Tele that Maxwell's gives you, how about clearing parts of the Depths first? At least it's easier to pick your fights down there, even if you might run into some pretty nasty stuff.

[Ozarck]

That's probably best. I am probably over confident in my various weapons of mass destruction - wands, cards, elemental artifacts, those three rods are beautifully destructive.

Yeah, I've had runs where I didn't get more than maybe two or three intrinsics by lair. Those were bad times.

I like Maxwell's armor. I think the -tele is an acceptable price to pay for it's ac and resistances, but it does let some sources of damage through a little too much. there have bee ntimes where I have been surprised at how much damage something deals me, with 42 AC and 19 shield. Of course, I am a fool for allowing the game to lull me into complacency with entire branches I can walk through with ease before sticking a high output group of monsters in my way.

Yeah, as tempting as it is to do vaults: 5, I think I'll go ahead down to the depths first.

Edit: I have cleared depths and Crypt with little trouble. Now the choice is: Vault: 5, Tomb, attempt to enter the ziggurat (which is guarded by three deavas), or Zot.
I gained two levels, one level of enchantment on my sword, and a single pip of rNeg. Oh and miasma mutation at rank 3.

Think I'll try tomb, but not until I've rested and reminded myself a thousand times that disaster lurks around every corner.