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[Imp]

Honestly, Imp, look at this logically.
Do you think that:

• NJW is lying and there were three anti-town in a 7 player game,
• Tric made two godfather scum and a miller, then made NJW a cop out of some kind of cruel personal grudge, or
• I'm somehow that much of a mafia genius that I pegged NJW as a cop sight-unseen and redirected him to a town player instead of just killing him?

If those all sound a little implausible to you, and they should, the other alternative is just that, you know, the inspection is right and I'm town.

Why do you care about if anyone thinks you are scum or not.

If you're town, you have a job to do.  I don't see you doing it.

NJW's inspect on you is the only evidence I've got that you're town.  Your behavior... I don' see town.

Inspects can be wrong; there's even maybe framing, though I'm not sure how a self-frame might work.

I don't know what's going on.  I'm not sure you do either, or that Qua did.

I'm just doing my job, and your lack of doing a pro-town job is why you're top of my list.

[sofanthiel]

And does it matter that you're not answering Oliver either?

...

wait what
what does this mean

0_0

Imp

[Maximum Spin]

And keep in mind that, in any world where I'm scum, I just set my partner, my free-killing partner, not only that but my free-and-frame-killing partner, on fire for absolutely no reason in the world. I didn't have to vote Quarque immediately and start a wagon. I didn't have to clearly set off my vote change with repeated insistence that I wasn't asking anyone else to change votes. I could have made the slightest token effort to save Quarque. I could have just had Quarque bus me, a one million times more suspicious player by nature, for massive towncred that would probably win the game with that setup. I could even have stuck to my vote to the end so it at least didn't look so overtly shady.

What the hell kind of benefit do you think I got that would justify that bus?

(By the way, Quarque, if you're reading this, you should ABSOLUTELY have bussed your partner there, especially if it was Oliverz. Then you could make your butler kill me while acting on a town player for confirmation, and pocket the entire game. It would have been so easy.)

[Imp]

0_0

Imp

What the hell kind of benefit do you think I got that would justify that bus?

I have no clue.

I don't think that Qua knew who his partner was.  Qua seems to have jumped off a cliff with both feet, self voting, saying a lot about his wincon, and seeing who tried to help.

Despite your earlier response to Qua, I wonder if this is kinda like you going webadict saving on Qua.

Now I die on the hill of Max vs Oliv.

Oliv's been on today, after D2 started.  Still hasn't posted.  Everything looks consistent to a Oliv being scum.  Talk or die bud.
Max has not been on since D1 ended, roundabouts.  Is super sus.  Behaved perfectly consistently if Qua and Max are not teamed but are both anti-town, and Max and Qua need to find each other.  Qua said "I'm your bud" and Max said....

Oliverz144, then.

If it's a gambit, then I'm proud of you and you deserve a second try.

If he's going to claim SK, I think we probably need to elim him. I'm not going to understand if people disagree.

Personally, I'd rather lynch the thief first if possible. A demoralized, outed SK doesn't matter that much and can probably be vigged in the night anyway. I won't say no to a Quarque lynch, but it seems like a waste.

I guess I understand that impulse. As things stand, would an Oliverz elim be more worthwhile?

Only extremely slightly, but I'm working with what I've got.

And then Max bails end of day, which if Max is anti-town, that's a lost partner that wasn't saved, and Max is again in a last-game-like position where he visibly tried to save Web and then, D2...

I like Max proposing the no elim here, I think, as I imagine him being passive at this point as town-elim. Not sure if I’ve seen it happen though… yeah, hard to say.

The word you're looking for is "utterly crushed". It's happened a few times, but I'm not sure if you were ever there.

I'm extremely open to the idea that Max may also be a godfather.

Why did you do that, Max?  Why make those posts, give those reasons, with that timing, despite what you describe of your own behavior:

And keep in mind that, in any world where I'm scum, I just set my partner, my free-killing partner, not only that but my free-and-frame-killing partner, on fire for absolutely no reason in the world. I didn't have to vote Quarque immediately and start a wagon. I didn't have to clearly set off my vote change with repeated insistence that I wasn't asking anyone else to change votes. I could have made the slightest token effort to save Quarque. I could have just had Quarque bus me, a one million times more suspicious player by nature, for massive towncred that would probably win the game with that setup. I could even have stuck to my vote to the end so it at least didn't look so overtly shady

I don't see you setting your partner on fire.  I see you setting off a lot of smoke.

Laconic's darn hard.  This is my first game where I was miller, first where I claimed miller, first where I've full claimed in response to being about to be lynched.

Fun stuff, probably muddies how you read me.

The flip straightens all that out.  I'm doing my best to make it clear for after I'm gone, if I go, however I go - same as every game I play, every day of it.

Sof, Max's weird stuff there, that Oliver asks about - you're cool with it?  That's interesting, but cool.

[sofanthiel]

If Imp is scum and attempted to assassinate NJW, who was the protector?  Alternatively, Max, was the action you performed a block?

[Maximum Spin]

If Imp is scum and attempted to assassinate NJW, who was the protector?  Alternatively, Max, was the action you performed a block?

In a manner of speaking. I prevented Imp from using kills last night. That's why I think it was either Imp or a no-kill.

[Imp]

If Imp is scum and attempted to assassinate NJW, who was the protector?  Alternatively, Max, was the action you performed a block?

In a manner of speaking. I prevented Imp from using kills last night. That's why I think it was either Imp or a no-kill.

Cool.

Why'd you pick me to target for that?

[Maximum Spin]

Cool.

Why'd you pick me to target for that?

I've clearly explained why you were Quarque's most logical partner after yesterday's interaction.

By the way, did you forget, when you shade me for changing my vote, that you switched off Quarque too, and earlier?

Honestly, if your goal here is to convince me that you're being too stupid to be scum, it's kind of working, but unfortunately, I still think that's worth a lynch.

[Imp]

Cool.

Why'd you pick me to target for that?

I've clearly explained why you were Quarque's most logical partner after yesterday's interaction.

By the way, did you forget, when you shade me for changing my vote, that you switched off Quarque too, and earlier?

Honestly, if your goal here is to convince me that you're being too stupid to be scum, it's kind of working, but unfortunately, I still think that's worth a lynch.

Cool, so, when did you target me?

[Crystalizedmire]

I don't think that Qua knew who his partner was.  Qua seems to have jumped off a cliff with both feet, self voting, saying a lot about his wincon, and seeing who tried to help.

I think Quarque knew. If they didn't, then why do they have a mafiakill?

And keep in mind that, in any world where I'm scum, I just set my partner, my free-killing partner, not only that but my free-and-frame-killing partner, on fire for absolutely no reason in the world. I didn't have to vote Quarque immediately and start a wagon. I didn't have to clearly set off my vote change with repeated insistence that I wasn't asking anyone else to change votes. I could have made the slightest token effort to save Quarque. I could have just had Quarque bus me, a one million times more suspicious player by nature, for massive towncred that would probably win the game with that setup. I could even have stuck to my vote to the end so it at least didn't look so overtly shady.

What the hell kind of benefit do you think I got that would justify that bus?

(By the way, Quarque, if you're reading this, you should ABSOLUTELY have bussed your partner there, especially if it was Oliverz. Then you could make your butler kill me while acting on a town player for confirmation, and pocket the entire game. It would have been so easy.)

Quarque was obvscum at that point there is no point in saving them and yet you still unvoted them.
I think we can deal with Maximum Spin later. So Imp, why do think that Quarque is so opposed to the idea of you having a scumbuddy?

[Maximum Spin]

Quarque was obvscum at that point there is no point in saving them and yet you still unvoted them.

I think bold plays should be rewarded! I was willing to give it a shot, so sue me.

Cool, so, when did you target me?

Around 7 forum time, when you voted Oliverz144.

[Imp]

So Imp, why do think that Quarque is so opposed to the idea of you having a scumbuddy?

I don't know, Cry.  This is my speculation:

I think Qua saw his mafiakill.

[Extra Action, Mafiakill, Day] My Personal Butler: [Player] is Town. However, they are also your Butler. A handy scapegoat if needed. A useful ally if not. When you use this action, target a player. Your Butler will kill them in addition to their Action. This is not known to the Butler. Your Butler is unaware of your existence on the boat due to hypnosis performed upon them.

[/quote]

I presume I am [player] in that roleflip because Qua said so.  I do not know - I have no other information about it.  I am a butler by role name.  My flavor does not contradict that information in any way.

However, I think it plausible that Qua, seeing that I am town, and needed to use that useful-looking mafiakill (I presume if [player] is dead, that can't function as a kill), then Qua did not want me dead unless needed and useful for Qua, ideally end of game - that makes sense to me, that's how I'd try to manage and handle that ability if I had that role and ability.

Furthermore, it makes sense to me that Qua didn't know 'who the thief was', presumably the other mafia member or third party if Qua really didn't get that they were mafia.  If Qua's telling the truth, Quq know I'm not the person, but they can use me to kill and be very hands-off, which has value, but they still apparently need their partner alive - or not.  They claimed they did, I don't know.  The 'find the thief' part of their wincon claim was the part that felt like a lie to me.

Cool, so, when did you target me?

Around 7 forum time, when you voted Oliverz144.

I wonder.  Max, does this mean you were sure that Qua was gonna die today then?

[Maximum Spin]

I wonder.  Max, does this mean you were sure that Qua was gonna die today then?

At that point, it looked likely, but I knew I could change my mind any time I wanted if that seemed to change. I ended up not changing my mind.

[Imp]

I wonder.  Max, does this mean you were sure that Qua was gonna die today then?

At that point, it looked likely, but I knew I could change my mind any time I wanted if that seemed to change. I ended up not changing my mind.

Sure.

I wonder if you're lying about this, because at the time you were saying stuff like

If he's going to claim SK, I think we probably need to elim him. I'm not going to understand if people disagree.

Personally, I'd rather lynch the thief first if possible. A demoralized, outed SK doesn't matter that much and can probably be vigged in the night anyway. I won't say no to a Quarque lynch, but it seems like a waste.

If you think he's an SK, then you don't think he has a partner.  If you think he's maybe going to live, then you likely want to stop the SK from killing.  Either way, I think your claim to target me with a 'can't kill' is unlikely and a lie of convenience made under pressure.

I sure hope we're not two town going at it.  But you do look very scum to me.

Hmm...

Not much time and about to go to bed, posting after one read-through.

...

Please don't hammer in my absence.

I'm at L-1 again.  Whatever you do is what you do.  Be ready to do your best for a town win, whatever the heck you do; most of you are town.

Imp: [3] Maximum Spin, sofanthiel, Crystalizedmire
Maximum Spin: [1] Imp,
Oliverz144:
CrystalizedMire:
sofanthiel:
NJW2000:

I desperately hope the actual anti-town isn't CM playing awesome.  Making sure there's plenty of suspects, and inching along.  CM's still my second-highest town pick though.

[Imp]

By the way, did you forget, when you shade me for changing my vote, that you switched off Quarque too, and earlier?

Honestly, if your goal here is to convince me that you're being too stupid to be scum, it's kind of working, but unfortunately, I still think that's worth a lynch.

I don't think this matters, but maybe it is emotional manipulation, so I'll discuss.

I never voted Qua D1.  I talked to him, and stated as was I'd vote-manip to ensure he was the lynch if people got off him, as things were near end of day, right before CM hammered.

I wanted more answers from him; I usually do from even likely scum.  I don't like mislynchs.

But my only vote D1 was the pressure vote for our 1-post player.  I never switched off Qua as Max claims I forgot.  I wonder if this is just Max throwing everything and the kitchen sink to manipulate and confuse - something that is more useful for scum than town.  I am pretty sure we're not seeing town Max here.