Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 16

Author Topic: A Mischief of Birbs: Forgotten in the Night: Mafia Victory  (Read 9475 times)

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #165 on: December 08, 2023, 05:06:30 pm »

Assuming that scum can't track their victim, then it would be unlikely Egan is scum. But we can't be sure that scum!Egan will make a rational choice.

Thanks, Cry!

Got anything else to say?

We kind of need you here too!
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #166 on: December 08, 2023, 05:07:13 pm »

If nothing else, Cry, what do you think?  What are your reads?  What do you think we should do?
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

hector13

  • Bay Watcher
  • It’s shite being Scottish
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #167 on: December 08, 2023, 05:14:51 pm »

Egan, to me, is clear. I’m not clear to him because I parroted what he said.

Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?

The easiest thing to do would be to go along with you, because I don’t think CM had claimed at that point, which as I mentioned leaves a lot of uncertainty for claim space. This is a lot of why I say I’m not clear from your perspective.

The trick is everyone is a tracker, including the mafia.

I almost thought oh snap about Egan... then remembered, Hec can confirm... then remembered, if the mafia kill is a track....  then it's safe for Egan to make the claim Egan made, even as killer, because kill and track can be the same action.  Maybe?  I have no idea.

I'm back to square 1, except I do lean towards OMG, Hec still does read as probable town.

Hec, what the heck do you think?

I had not considered that.

It… throws a lot of uncertainty into the mix.

Eurgh why can’t things just be simple.

CM looks to be the first to bring it up? Right. *sighs* this is something we need to consider then.
Logged
Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

If you struggle with your mental health, please seek help.

Crystalizedmire

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #168 on: December 08, 2023, 05:22:26 pm »

If nothing else, Cry, what do you think?  What are your reads?  What do you think we should do?
Egan posted somethings which includes them as a possible suspect:
Hey, a track-kill seems thematic for this game. Who knows what magical surprises tric has in store?
If you're scum, Egan, you're making really weird choices.
And do you think that scum!Egan tends to make rational and measured choices?
Though, since we're at melo, it is possible that these posts are a show made by scum!Egan

Hector and you are null to me. I have trouble absorbing Imp's long posts so I'll probably have missed a lot of scumtells.
Logged
she/her

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #169 on: December 08, 2023, 05:45:09 pm »

Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?

CM looks to be the first to bring it up? Right. *sighs* this is something we need to consider then.

Unless we want to count Egan hinting around as a form of bringing it up.  Very indirect though.

Now to actually answer Egan's question, or try to.

Egan this is hard because I genuinely didn't get a scum mod mail.  I didn't even consider deeply if the killer has 1 kill or a track, a combined kill that gives a track result, or what.  I actually managed to forget that the mafia was explicitly stated to also track.

How could I do that?  I wrote it off originally as an inspect.  I think I played a game ago where the killer could inspect.  It didn't seem off to me.  I didn't consider it again when I realized my oops about track/=inspect.

When hec stated
We no lynch today, find out whether or not the scum is compelled to kill, and probably come back to the same situation D3.
Seemed reasonable to me.... now.  At the time  I thought 'Right.  Scum can choose to kill or not, maybe.  Maybe track or kill.  But this is probably the scum talking'.  And I didn't even think about 'track and kill'.  I was pretty intense about knowing that Hec had visited Max and deeply, so deeply wanted nobody else to have.  At this time, I knew my DM and Hec's claim that matched my DM.  'Oh blood blood but must set trap and look at that probable scum try to disarm the trap and is it going to be that simple that only Hec went to Max?  If so, when I claim I tracked him there, if nobody else tracked me, gonna be me and him seen as the scum choices, how to handle this right.'

I wasn't considering the other aspects yet, like if he had other trackers or what it meant if Max did, I was mostly hoping we could trap a scum as the only visitor and then get him, or get me cause I tracked him to Max.  Blood-blind, that was imp.  My thoughts are quite different now.

But yeah, we don't have any mechanics clearance, I think.

And only so much play to read, but.

I think Egan's hinting at a problem in Imp's reasoning, that marks Egan as cleared, in this:
Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?

That reads like a very townie question, I think?

Scum Egan sees imp thinking Egan cleared by confusion about the possible mix of track and kill.  Sees Hector equally confused.  Cry hasn't spoken yet - Cry speaks up 13 minutes after Egan checks me out with that question, and just a few minutes after I make my firm claim that Egan and Hec seem town to me (even though I now doubt my reasoning of then, big time) and that I think it's reasonable to pick between me and Cry for the lynch.

If Cry is scum, that's gotta look bad to Cry.  If Egan is scum.... that may look good?  Still gotta look town, but how?  I lean town in Egan's question, because scum Egan's happy to lynch either Imp or Cry.  Town Egan cares about lynching just the right person.  Everyone usually finds it easy to think as themself and their own viewpoint, easier than any other.

Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?

Okay!  So.  Me scum knows you are town.  You claimed to visit Max.  You're town, all of you are town, I'm the scum and the only liar unless you're all nuts.

I won't even consider that you lied about who Max visited.  You have zero reason to lie.  I can't use that to implicate that as you being Max's killer, plus I too, as Max's killer, IF the kill and the track are the same thing, know who Max visited.

If scum imp killed Max, then scum imp (probably?  I think definitely) visited Max.  At the time I claimed to visit Hec, we had 2 claims of visits on Max.  Not much more risk if I really visited Max and claim I did.  Some risk, if Cry visited me, if I claim anything else.  I read that as no benefit to me in claiming to visit Hec instead of visit Max...  You, 'go along with what you say' - I don't think scum imp would care much about your claim of where Max went, even if my kill was not also a track.

Now, back to my deeper interest... does that question support that Egan was thinking about the likeliness of anyone else noticing that the kill and track might be combined for scum?  Because Egan is scum or because Egan noticed the likely hole in logic that neither Hec nor Imp were exploring?

Why expect Cry, who says so little, would say THAT as the one thing that Cry brings up?  A genius scum Egan, seeing the pressure on town Cry, thinking Cry would catch and point that out?

Not likely.

I do think Egan was hinting about it, but more as a town-Egan, probing Imp because 'wait, maybe scum Imp, you called me towniest then scummy, then didn't even discuss, and now you call me confirmed town and what about this flaw about the scum kill?  How would you answer that, Imp?'  I am surprised if scum Egan would go that direction.  (But I'm wrong a lot)

I still really wanna hear more from Cry!
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

hector13

  • Bay Watcher
  • It’s shite being Scottish
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #170 on: December 08, 2023, 05:49:13 pm »

Alright. Summarized not very deep thoughts because this is downtime I’d rather use for rest than thinking but whatever.

If the scum has a track-kill: Egan is not cleared as town, and I don’t think anyone else is either given the claims made. I claimed I tracked Max from the off, so CM and Imp supporting that doesn’t really say anything if nobody else can back up their claims.

If the scum does not have a track-kill: no change from what we’ve discussed already: Egan’s results clear him from my perspective, CM and Imp just confirm I visited Max, which I claimed from the off so doesn’t clear them from my perspective.

In order to test this… Imp’s scheme from D1 of a track circle might actually work, because each of the town confirm each other, and the scum have to use their track-kill to visit someone and give their tracker a result, else the person we get no result from can be lynched.

Thoughts?

PPE: long post from Imp, I’ll post this and read that.
Logged
Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

If you struggle with your mental health, please seek help.

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #171 on: December 08, 2023, 05:52:21 pm »

Egan posted somethings which includes them as a possible suspect:
Hey, a track-kill seems thematic for this game. Who knows what magical surprises tric has in store?
If you're scum, Egan, you're making really weird choices.
And do you think that scum!Egan tends to make rational and measured choices?
Though, since we're at melo, it is possible that these posts are a show made by scum!Egan

Hector and you are null to me. I have trouble absorbing Imp's long posts so I'll probably have missed a lot of scumtells.


Okay.  Is this the only thing that pops as scummy from Egan to you?

Hey, a track-kill seems thematic for this game. Who knows what magical surprises tric has in store?

I'm sorry my posts are hard to track.  What about others' posts?  Hec and I are null, really, with all that's happened?

What about no-lynch vs lynch Egan, since Hec and Imp are null?  Or better go with a null and why?

How do we move towards your wincon?  How are you moving towards your wincon?
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #172 on: December 08, 2023, 06:00:07 pm »

In order to test this… Imp’s scheme from D1 of a track circle might actually work, because each of the town confirm each other, and the scum have to use their track-kill to visit someone and give their tracker a result, else the person we get no result from can be lynched.

Thoughts?

Hec, we do that and town gets no proof except one more removed townie (or maybe no new deaths)

I tried to explain why here:

Let's say all 4 of us go into night, A inspects B inspects C inspect D inspects A - if scum is A then scum kills D, known to be visited by C.  B confirms C visited D.  D can't confirm who A visited.  C confirms they went to D.  A claims they went to B.  A is scum, but who can prove it?  B is confirmed town and must pick between lynching A and C.

Let me put names on it.  Here, let's call Imp scum, and say scum must kill who they visit.

Let's say the track list is:

Imp tracks Hec
Hec tracks Cry
Cry tracks Egan
Egan tracks Imp

Imp doesn't track Hec, Imp kills Egan.

Imp claims tracked Hec, saw Hec visit Cry.  Cry reports Egan visited Imp.  Nobody reports on Imp because Egan died before could.

Cry visited Egan who died.  Imp maybe lied about Hec and visited Egan.

Hec is confirmed town.  But is Cry or Imp the scum?

Because it **could** also go:

Cry is scum.  Cry kills Egan.

Imp reports Hec visited Cry.

Hec reports Cry visited Egan.

Egan dies before reporting that Imp visited Hec.

Hec is confirmed town.  But is Imp or Cry the scum?
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #173 on: December 08, 2023, 06:04:13 pm »

But, if we think we have 'very likely townies'.... maybe we can set up a pattern that works if we're not wrong about who the very likely townies are.

I have not thought deeply about this.  And tracking's new to me, so I'm starting from scratch with the ideas.

I desperately need help with the thinking and ideas, because again and again I don't see my own errors without help.
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #174 on: December 08, 2023, 06:15:54 pm »


Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?
To be clear, this wasn't me hinting at a combined track/kill action, I first got that idea from CM. I was just pointing out that a sufficiently aggressive scum!hector could have thunderdomed me there.
Logged
I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #175 on: December 08, 2023, 06:16:16 pm »

But probably would have had to wait until after CM claimed.
Logged
I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #176 on: December 08, 2023, 06:27:20 pm »

What do you think we should do?
Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #177 on: December 08, 2023, 06:27:39 pm »

I'm seeing what I consider a trend of CrystalizedMire repeating observations that I or others have made without any real elaboration, but phrased as though they're original thoughts. Am I crazy or is this a form of active-lurking?
Logged
I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

Egan_BW

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #178 on: December 08, 2023, 06:32:00 pm »

Most recent point I could make was where CM pointed out that scum!Egan might not necessarily action rationally. Which I'd already alluded to, but CM didn't quote me or anything. And earlier in day 1 where CM quoted Imp's post and more or less just wrote the same conclusion which was already in Imp's post.
Logged
I would starve tomorrow if I could eat the world today.

Imp

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: A Mischief of Birbs: Day 2 - Slip a bird on the barbie (4/6)
« Reply #179 on: December 08, 2023, 06:41:59 pm »

Reminder it's 3 to hammer, I'm not putting a vote up because I want discussion still.

My current reads:

Hec:  Seems pretty townie.  I'm not certain, but there's not much time and won't be much more time.  Even with my second place scummiest when I did my reads D1, was for pretty subtle reasons and I don't think I see scum in Hec.

Egan:  Scary to me.  Seemed super supportive/solid positive townie to me early D1, after my top townie read post seemed to change playstyle (not necessarily a scumtell, but scum can get lazy when they feel safer?).  Didn't love the tldr stuff, but that's a null (I learned to read unpleasant as scummy, after some serious nasty scum drilling on me in my first games, but I'm not seeing serious unpleasant).  I see scumhunting.  Also, Max, who seemed 'cooperative' this game, and who read me very well, also red Hec as likely town and implies that they read Egan as town too.

Cry I've played beside twice in Catfia, as the game had a restart.  Was town both times, low post frequency, not much work done.  A bit less this game.  The moves made D2 do seem to support a scum wincon better than a town wincon, even for a player with low post frequency and not often doing lots of game-work.

My uneasy vote lean is towards Cry.

I really want to exchange more with Egan, but super short game and Egan has shown a decent volume of material to consider.  I have no complaints except darn it, Imp, get better at questioning, please.

Cry... you're about to be lynched, I think.  Your wincon, no matter what it is, dies with you.

What now, Cry?

Logged
For every trouble under the sun, there is an answer, or there is none.
If there is one, then seek until you find it.
If there is none, then never ever mind it.
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 16