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[Crystalizedmire]

Well, you both visited me. Am I lying about having visited Max?

You are not lying about visiting Maximum Spin.

[hector13]

I’d like you and CM to tell me who I visited N1.

“I will honestly say I visited Max” is how you show someone else is talking, not you. That’s were the misunderstanding arose, it really isn’t that big a deal.

[hector13]

Well, you both visited me. Am I lying about having visited Max?

You are not lying about visiting Maximum Spin.

How about you Imp?

[Imp]

Well, you both visited me. Am I lying about having visited Max?

Oh, you're definitely not lying about visiting Max.  Town imp who tracked Hec would know that.

Scum imp would know town hec wouldn't lie, so visited Max.  But if scum, Imp had to visit max.  Cry could reveal that, small chance, if Cry had tracked Imp.

Hec, scum or town, said visited max.  Is true either way.
Egan, scum or town, said visited max.  Is true either way.
Cry... either way.  Since Cry reports last and nobody said tracked Cry, scum or town Cry can actually say anything, no proof.

However, I object strongly to the fake call that egan and hec are cleared.  I don't see any clearing.

I just don't know if I see a flaw in town Hec thinking or if I see scum Hec acting.

I was actually leaning towards town Hec.  I don't think scum Hec would work that hard/think he had to work that hard.... except, yeah.  Maybe so because:

But if Scum, Egan took the same risk I did, if I'm scum.  I claimed to visit Hec, if Cry visited me, knows who I visited.  Risk... but Egan took a huge risk.  Stated who Max visited - knowing Hec made same visit.  If scum, egan took a 1/4 chance of being safe, madness for scum.

Egan is to me now confirmed town.

Same is not true for Hec who said who Max tracked after Egan said that, no risk for Hec.

Cry's very null to me, but that's true for town Cry too.

I won't throw a vote, because no lynch may actually be the better answer for town this day.  But I think we have more to discuss, and I am very concerned about Hec.

[Egan_BW]

I don't think that anyone ever claimed that hac is cleared, so stop talking about it as if someone did. That's just a distraction, intentional or not.

[Imp]

I don't think that anyone ever claimed that hac is cleared, so stop talking about it as if someone did. That's just a distraction, intentional or not.

Rereads:

So, it looks like Egan and I can clear each other (or I can clear Egan, as he said it first) so that makes my life easier for choosing between CM and Imp.

Okay.  I don't lean at all towards Hec being cleared by Egan.  However, I do still consider Egan must be town because I don't see scum Egan choosing a 1/4 chance of making the right guess when there wasn't clear pressure to do so.  If you're scum, Egan, you're making really weird choices.

Cry, what are your thoughts?  And what should we do?

[hector13]

I propose this.

Before any of us say who we tracked last night, we ask us all this one question.

Does anyone want to admit they went to the night kill target?

Maybe nobody tracked the killer.  Maybe someone did.

Shall we magpies play that game of chicken, or is this a bad idea?

This is what you said to discuss when we first started the day, instead of informing everyone I had visited the NK, which is going to be much more useful a thing to discuss for scumhunting than the merits of your proposal, despite me immediately saying I had visited Max in my first post of the day, but you waited until after CM had confirmed I visited Max before saying it.

Why are you keeping materially important information from us until hours later in such a short day?

I don't think that anyone ever claimed that hac is cleared, so stop talking about it as if someone did. That's just a distraction, intentional or not.

Rereads:

So, it looks like Egan and I can clear each other (or I can clear Egan, as he said it first) so that makes my life easier for choosing between CM and Imp.

I implied I was the only one that could clear Egan in that post broseph. Even if it’s a poor job of implying it I outright stated it here:

Egan is clearing himself in my eyes because I visited Max and got that Max visited Egan. If he got that result, he didn’t kill him.

I seconded that, which could just be me copying Egan. Frankly it doesn’t make that much of a difference to me if I’m cleared or not.

Are you saying you visited Max, not me?

Egan, to me, is clear. I’m not clear to him because I parroted what he said.

Somewhat similarly, CM gets a bit of towncred from me for saying I visited Max first, though considering I’ve been saying that all day it doesn’t clear him.

Regardless, another point against for you trying to mischaracterise what I said when I’d made it clear in the same discussion.

[Egan_BW]

If you're scum, Egan, you're making really weird choices.

And do you think that scum!Egan tends to make rational and measured choices?

[Egan_BW]

You were questioning my apparent change in strategy at the end of day 1, but I guess we've dropped that huh?

[Egan_BW]

Egan, to me, is clear. I’m not clear to him because I parroted what he said.

Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?

[Imp]

I'm going to start by saying, I reread all of Hec's posts this game.  Decent scumhunting, Max thought probably town.  I'm going to lean back towards you're probably town, Hec.

Since I know I'm town, that means I am now thinking Cry as most likely scum, and that's where I would vote.

Why are you keeping materially important information from us until hours later in such a short day?

It makes huge sense to me.  Presuming you are town, and presuming Egan also is.  The person who did kill Max lied about who they visited.

To my thinking, there's traps and issues for scum in that discussion.

Also, I tracked you, Hec.  I knew you went to Max.  What I didn't know was if anyone else did.  Or if anyone could clear me by confirming I went to you.

But I saw my result for you, and oh, I knew you were not cleared.

And I wanted to know who else might claim they did or didn't visit.

Because then we could discuss, between the two - or three - people who did visit Max, who should say where Max went.

Instead, I revealed I visited Hec, which means nobody visited Cry.

I think cry visited Max, and chose to not say so, trying to be off that suspicion list.

Because, as I see it, we can clear one person who visited Max maybe (when we didn't know if 2 or 3 had), agree who's intended to reveal who Max visited first.  We can play a pressure game, as scum would really, really not like to be the first to have to pick where to say Max went.

But that can only happen if we as a group agree.  We didn't, big time.  Very well.  But I, with my Hec inspect, am thinking very hard about Cry, who claimed not to visit Max at all.

If Cry is scum, it's very safe for Cry to say that Hec visited Max, because Hec has to be town when Hec made the claim, and why would Hec lie?  Only way to get trapped as Cry by that visit claim is if Hec lied with the intention to trap, super hard to set up and not a good idea, that's a confirmed town play only - or something we might negotiate as a group, what I wanted to set up at very start of day.

So, "Why are you keeping materially important information from us until hours later in such a short day?" - because I thought it could be super useful and meaningfully town-helpful to control the release of that info.

Regardless, another point against for you trying to mischaracterise what I said when I’d made it clear in the same discussion.

I remind you, to my perspective, I know you visited Max.  My suspicions about you were very high.

Bolding mine, my mind was screaming about this as I read it, and that likely shows in my subsequent posts.

**So, it looks like Egan and I can clear each other**

I didn't think so at all.  By itself, no.  Everything together, and broadening focus, yeah.  If you're scum you're scum all game.  I re-read the game.

I think you're much more likely to be town than scum.  I think Egan too.  So for me, I'm okay with thinking I know who has to die, and fully accept, from my viewpoint, for you two, it's a choice between Cry and me.  But I know I inspected you, Hec, and couldn't wait to try and make a trap to try and tell if you're scum or town.  The evidence says very likely town.

So, Cry, got anything to say?

[Crystalizedmire]

I don't think that anyone ever claimed that hac is cleared, so stop talking about it as if someone did. That's just a distraction, intentional or not.

Rereads:

So, it looks like Egan and I can clear each other (or I can clear Egan, as he said it first) so that makes my life easier for choosing between CM and Imp.

Okay.  I don't lean at all towards Hec being cleared by Egan.  However, I do still consider Egan must be town because I don't see scum Egan choosing a 1/4 chance of making the right guess when there wasn't clear pressure to do so.  If you're scum, Egan, you're making really weird choices.

Cry, what are your thoughts?  And what should we do?

Assuming that scum can't track their victim, then it would be unlikely Egan is scum. But we can't be sure that scum!Egan will make a rational choice.

[Imp]

And do you think that scum!Egan tends to make rational and measured choices?

No idea.  I haven't played beside you that I can remember.  I haven't deeply read any games you've been in, that I recall.

However, I think if you were scum, your choice is very, very, very high risk and not likely better reward than a lot of other ways you could play this.

You were questioning my apparent change in strategy at the end of day 1, but I guess we've dropped that huh?

There's scummy, and there's scum.  I also thought Sof was very scummy.

I called you on the scumminess, having no idea if I should be concerned about it D2, or if there would be a D2, or if I'd be here to discuss.

As is, we have other things to discuss.  But you do need to make decisions about other players, including me.  If you want to talk about my thinking and actions, go for it.  I'm right here.  If this or anything else helps you make decisions, or you think it helps town, please, ask or discuss whatever.

Well, if you were scum would you prefer to accuse me of lying about who max visited and thus implicate me as max's killer, or just go along with what I said in case CM also visited max?

When I am scum, I try to play exactly as I do in every other role, except for the essential and key moments when I can't because that does directly contradict my wincon.  I make genuine mistakes in any role; as scum I have to also make... or better, allow that key mistake to ensure town cannot actually win.

You may notice that I spend a lot of time trying to prevent mistakes, even as I make my share of them.  That's a me tell, and I try to make it a me tell no matter my role.

[Egan_BW]

Hey, a track-kill seems thematic for this game. Who knows what magical surprises tric has in store?

[Imp]

The trick is everyone is a tracker, including the mafia.

I almost thought oh snap about Egan... then remembered, Hec can confirm... then remembered, if the mafia kill is a track....  then it's safe for Egan to make the claim Egan made, even as killer, because kill and track can be the same action.  Maybe?  I have no idea.

I'm back to square 1, except I do lean towards OMG, Hec still does read as probable town.

Hec, what the heck do you think?