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[Jim Groovester]

Related to why Jim has my vote? (What's "defensive" about vote theft?)

It's defensive in the same way a day kill is defensive.

Fallacy is still bitter about me (but not actually me) superkilling him and then claiming to be a mason (which wasn't my idea) so he baked some irony into my role and abilities.

Max and Jim, do you mind if I say nothing and see who else votes me instead of obvscum Egan_BW?

I want to see who joins.

Knightwing is Town, btw.

I'm probably not doing anything until I get home from work anyway, so, by all means.

Web, I still am missing how you and Jim knew it was Egan

RIDE OR DIE THAT'S HOW

[Imp]

My power is based on building things out of words and I'm not really sure what those words do.

I have been thinking about it and Secretdorf gives me scummy vibes I can't really explain.

I would say the above exactly like Esteemed Egan_BW if I talked like that one.  I don't know what it means that we're sort of maybe twinsies.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The rest of the stuff Esteemed Egan_BW I'd have to change like this to be able to say:  [I am sure of some things.  I also know I did not kill Esteemed Sofanthiel last night, but I can't control what I do or may become able to do or allow others to become able to do, so I may apologize at some point for something that I did not intend or know would happen because of my 'building things out of words'.]

I understand why I felt twinsies with Esteemed EuchreJack, this is not the same kind of key-in-lock twinsies.

Esteemed Knightwing64:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

HA I FUCKING KNEW IT

Webadict

It’s 100% Web. He doesn’t have a inspect at all.

Can you tell us more?  What precisely and exactly is 100% Esteemed Webadict? Do you purely mean 'He doesn’t have a inspect at all' and you playing a Lynch All Liars card, or is there more?

I have an ability that let’s me see if my target inspected anyone and what the results of that inspection was.

Vote Web, if they aren’t scum, vote me after.

Oh boy.  Um, um... wait.  Isn't that potentially as wasteful as Esteemed Toonyman trying so hard to get killed D1, so we would then kill Esteemed EuchreJack?  We have seen one of their roleflips already, if we saw Esteemed Toonyman's first and agreed to that plan we might be down two town and nothing solved and bad clues at that.  As is, we're down two town but maybe have some very good clues.  If this is just LAL, could we, look a little closer?  But thank you for the evidence and strong insistence that Esteemed Webadict did not inspect anyone last night, and you'd be glad to die if that's false.

I wonder if you could be tricked.  For example, please carefully read this from the OP, can you rule out every single one of these possible ways to fail, including the last two?

[Action Failure Types]
Failure to target: Congrats, your target is outside of the game space due to a banishment effect or commuter ability, and cannot be targeted. Your action failed, because you couldn't even use your ability in the first place. Any shots you would have used have not been used.
Failure upon use: Something jammed you at the moment you used it. 'Target player's action will fail' would fall under this category, as would action failure due to "(Status) Curse: Your actions have a 50% chance to fail when used!" or such. Any shots you would have used have not been used.
--Roleblock: A roleblock is a specific type of power that forces action failure. Unlike other failures, if someone is roleblocked, they are explicitly given the message You were roleblocked. - but only if they attempted to act. If a player was roleblocked and did not attempt to act, they do not receive this message. This also does not consume shots.
Failure upon arrival: You successfully used your ability, but alas, woe is you, you hit a player who causes all non-kill actions used on them to fail. Unfortunately in this case your ability fully resolved, it just didn't do its job, so you do lose any shots you tried to use.
Sneaky failure: You successfully used your ability, you got the You performed your action message - and your killshot on webadict hit a protect action. You aren't told your action failed, and technically it didn't - but the effect failed completely even if your action didn't.

Imp: Survivor or another third party with an agenda? What happens if you don't post according to your restriction?

Esteemed BlackHeartKabal ,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

no, I am town, started that way and still true now, please may that never change.  Town with agenda, heck yeah, been very open about that.  I'd be glad to 'prevent instead of cause or be party to' 'bad outcomes' while doing the rest of my job.

What happens if you don't post according to your restriction?

Unanswerable as asked.  I have more than one.  Also, I don't necessarily know.  Maybe you should ask the various multiple worthies who each put one or more on me so we can all find out?  As to the one(s) I started with, I am so not in control here.  I get to choose how much risk I take (ha, haha, haha ... but we were all told to ask questions, every and any question and I'm so much better off than my key-in-lock-looking twinsie Esteemed EuchreJack.  I asked for what I got and I messed up where I messed up).  I claim:  My way of speaking is a way of attempting to control how much risk I may add to play.  ... 'control'.  Haha.  Oh, haha.

Webadict:This would explain your voting behaviour yesterday, if you flip scum. I hope that either you or Knightwing are scum.

Please, would you explain how that would explain Esteemed Webadict's voting behavior yesterday?

And why are you hoping either of them is scum?  That's an interesting way to word that, are you just... not careful what you wish for in general?

Yes, my mistake - should we have just deliberated into a no-lynch D1 instead? We mislynched, unfortunate.

Struggles to breath calmly for some time.

Esteemed BlackHeartKabal, tone was calm and polite for that name, but instantly rage fills the rest of the words I hate those words.  How do you think to claim that we had, of the 17 of us, the choice to lynch Esteemed EuchreJack or no one at all?  Your words look meaningless, distracting, and worse, wrong.  Why are you offering trash as if treasure?  Your words seem like nonsense to me.

Your priority should be clearing your own name if you insist on leading town discussion

More absolute garbage.  Town has a job to do, and that's almost never clearing their name.  Their name may be cleared as they do their job.  They have a job to do.  Also, every one of us decides who we listen to, or not, and how we listen, and what role we treat that other with.

I think your priority is clearing your name/discrediting others as best you can, and far more on trying to take the lead of town discussion for your own goals, which are looking 'let's see a roleflip I wanna see' instead of 'let's actually solve the puzzle and try to kill those who are not town'.

Reminder for you, in case you forgot:

For those of you who don't know what to do ... find scum, which is your primary goal.

And because it bears repeating: Your primary goal is to find scum. Everything you do should help you towards that goal. And I do mean everything.

If you're scum, you will obviously have a different goal: Avoid detection until the end of the game. The best way to do this is to look like you are trying to find scum.

...So be bold, and just do the best you can. You're going to play this by aggressively questioning everything you find odd or scummy. This is to get you in the habit of asking questions a lot, since that's how the game of mafia is played and won.

[Maximum Spin]

I have some more information about what happened last night but I need to finish the thread first. Don't do anything stupid.

[Maximum Spin]

Spin: If you're not mistaken? I want to put you in town coded. You give the vibes of an investigator or such who knows what's up but doesn't want to confirm that. You're certain what you're claiming is true and verifiable?

Yes but maybe don't put questions for people into spoilers, I could easily have missed that.

Max and Jim, do you mind if I say nothing and see who else votes me instead of obvscum Egan_BW?

I want to see who joins.

Knightwing is Town, btw.

I don't mind that at all, and also, Knightwing is Town, btw.

I guess if web doesn't want me to explain everything yet, then it's not a big deal and I'll just leave it at that.

The only other thing I want to say is come on, Eileen.

[Elephant Parade]

Not claiming yet.

I've found Egan sussy from the start so I'd be down for their execution. Add me to the list of people who don't understand why sofanthiel and NQT, sussy lurkers extraordinaire, would be mafiakill targets. I could almost buy that Egan did it on accident... if I didn't already suspect them.

I am wary of a possible webadict/ToonyMan scumteam but otherwise do not find webadict particularly suspicious right now.

[Imp]

Huh, so, I think these two folks haven't yet been spotted in today's dream:

Esteemed Elephant Parade, and Esteemed sofanthiel.

Some plans I am considering once everyone's clearly had a chance to speak up -

Several things happened to me last night, in an order I lived to share.  We have two people openly claiming they protected me last night.  I haven't spotted anyone counterclaiming them, and I don't think they conflict, but I don't want either of them currently to say more, because if there's a counterclaim I mean to use what I was informed of that hasn't been said yet to try and sort through or even confirm stories if there's conflict.  Unless, Esteemed Hector13, you choose to counterclaim Esteemed Toonyman yourself?  This was stated of that worthy's protection - does yours overlap in any way you choose to discuss beyond protection with this claim?

It's not just a protect. It will also fix all your disabled abilities, so if you have an ability that is disabled that disabled will be removed. And it removes all your status conditions. So like if you had that thing Tric gives then I would remove it. It's basically a protect from kills plus remove bad stuff.

If not, I say again we probably need the Esteemed Toonyman for reasons I itch to discuss, but can't yet for counts a minimum of three reasons.

Also, anyone else wanna discuss what they might have come and done or tried to do to me last night?  Cause, I'll be discussing my experiences of N1 before end of D2, I hope, and those of you who can read order of actions well probably understand even more than me.

PPE:  Two reasons now, and haven't heard anything from Esteemed sofanthiel yet is one of them.

[Maximum Spin]

Imp, what did you do last night and was it by any chance targeted on webadict? Be clear, concise, and truthful.

[hector13]

My protection wasn’t for N1, it’s… a little more complicated, but you’ll be immune from kills after D2. I know it doesn’t seem that way, but I’d rather not go into more details about it right now.

[hector13]

Actually no, the thing I did wasn’t a protect at all in game terms, I can say that and remain cryptic.

[notquitethere]

OK, on a computer. Amazing how my thinking opens up when I can actually read the posts on a proper sized screen. I feel cramped, harrassed, distracted on a phone. I missed the details of Max's claim before. (Embarrassing.) OK, so Max is saying he specifically saw Egan make the mafiakill and hit Sofa instead of me. OK, the bussing theory makes more sense now. (But who tried to kill me?)

As for what I did last night, I already hinted as much. I did an investigative action to rattle a pith helm internee.


Max, could you explain a bit more about how you know each of these elements.

1. The kill was a mafiakill.
2. It was meant for me but hit Sofa.

Web, so if you were lying about having an inspect, what was it? Are you saying you didn't try to kill me, you just tried to delete my role? That's worse but I'm not sure I had any specific defence against it. Was Sofa's role obliterated?

If you want to dodge the murder allegations, you're going to have to be a bit less shady. And why are you saying I tried to dodge a (non-existent) super-inspect? I said on D1 I could have done something to avoid your threat of role obliteration, but I didn't do it.

[ToonyMan]

@Hector:
If you messed with Imp's role in any way then I probably fixed it last night. I don't think I would remove a future kill-immunity unless it counts as a status effect though.

[hector13]

I don’t think you did, given Esteemed Imp’s claim so far.

I also don’t know about how your abilities would interact with what I did.. Can you give an example of what a status effect is?

[Imp]

Imp, what did you do last night and was it by any chance targeted on webadict? Be clear, concise, and truthful.

I did not target the Esteemed Webadict.

I have more to say about what I did or attempted, but I would prefer to do so after two other things have happened.  One is an answer from the Most Esteemed FallacyofUrist

[Elephant Parade]

I don’t think you did, given Esteemed Imp’s claim so far.

I also don’t know about how your abilities would interact with what I did.. Can you give an example of what a status effect is?

If you don't know what a status effect is, your role doesn't use status effects.

[Imp]

Actually no, the thing I did wasn’t a protect at all in game terms, I can say that and remain cryptic.

This is highly adequate for my needs, thank you, Esteemed hector13.