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[A_Curious_Cat]

I guess I should probably air my thoughts about TricMagic.

I think TricMagic is probably some kind of 3rd-party "Hat Tyrant".  Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing I don't know.  In the absence of anything to tell whether TricMagic was pro-town or anti-town, I'd probably vote to lynch them due to the potential danger that they pose, however I think there are bigger fish (i.e. mafia) to fry right now...

[juicebox]

That and if it's not a mafia doublevoter, they don't want them around during later days where it has more weight. Sure they could kill them, but that's a bit risky this game. Could be watchers about. In the same manner, they need to tread carefully for any major figures who might draw attention. It's almost the perfect plan if you want to survive till day 4. At which point I'd hope to have established town credit to pull me out of the TP debt.

As for my humor, it is Dragon and Hats. Blame webadict for the latter, it's his fault. He dared us.


Ninja'd. Would you like spies with that?

Tric fixed it up here. I'm not sure if that's an actual slip, but I think it does warrant looking into.

Fallacy's case is pretty sound, as Tric usually does make for a good info lynch. Usually I would caution against pushing for such a lynch until later in the day, but as it seems to have caused a slip, I'll let it slide for now.

As to whether I think Fallacy is clear if Tric flips scum, I wanna say yes, but I think Fallacy and Tricmagic are just crazy enough to thunderdome D1 as scumbuddies

[juicebox]

Oh and before I forget, Tricmagic

[ToonyMan]

@Juicebox:
There is no way FoU and Tric are scumbuddies. 0% chance.

I don't believe a single thing FoU has said in the last few pages. I have no idea why they have this crazy obsession with Tric. I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me. It's not Tric.

I actually believe Tric and Lenglon may both be third-party. This is why I wasn't feeling a Lenglon vote earlier. I don't give a shit about third parties. Maybe after we've slain a ton of mafia but the game isn't ending I'll care, but otherwise who cares??

[ToonyMan]

The first part of this post is off to me. It reads to me as if Tric is certain Jack isn't scum

He does this as town. I've tried to get Tric lynched for "slipping" and he was town in that game. I can try to find it.

[Lenglon]

I don't believe a single thing FoU has said in the last few pages. I have no idea why they have this crazy obsession with Tric. I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me. It's not Tric

Toonyman: Explain this.

[ToonyMan]

The first part of this post is off to me. It reads to me as if Tric is certain Jack isn't scum

He does this as town. I've tried to get Tric lynched for "slipping" and he was town in that game. I can try to find it.

I can't find an immediate example on the spot, but in Web's Supernatural I was railing Tric here and one of the things was I thought he was implying things that contradicted himself. I'm almost certain he's made statements that look like slips as town if I can manage to find an example from scrawling.

I don't believe a single thing FoU has said in the last few pages. I have no idea why they have this crazy obsession with Tric. I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me. It's not Tric

Toonyman: Explain this.

Explain what? I don't believe FoU. FoU wants to vote Tric for information (if they're town or mafia) or because they're third-party. I think that's a bad reason to vote Tric. Why not vote Jim or Max if you suspect them to be chainsaw defending Tric? I think it's more likely a mafia!Jim or mafia!Max would defend a town!Tric. I don't like FoU's reasoning at all here.

[Toaster]

Oh good, I see I've missed a crapload of posts.  That's long term good but short term bad because now I gotta read all that.

Jimmy G Dawg:

Also, to be fair to TricMagic, he makes baffling decisions but he does put in effort and has a reasonable understanding of the game state at any given time.

Not at the point of my last post, no he hadn't.  That's part of my point.


TricMagic:

I am fundamentally appalled you think that's a flash of analysis. Like... Really? That's what you call analysis?
That said, you've certianly leaned scum for me with this. Which kinda makes all the noise I'm making worthwhile, it's meant to draw out scum. If I eat a kill, that's an L for mafia. And I never say I'm town, unless I'm a dragon, then I say I'm a Dragon. (I find that game the funniest since I outright said what I was and was read as town the whole game, all the way to the end.)

I like hats. I need to steal hats to actually do anything. Gib me ma Hat.

It was the best credit I could give you.  And I don't care; I find it weird that you won't say your alignment.  It sticks out.

suddenly actual content

See?  Was that so hard?  That's what I wanted to see!

My strategy for day 1 was to be seen as Third Party.

Not that.  That plan is dumb.  It's been tried before and it was dumb then.  Not scummy, just dumb.


Fluffe:

Anyway as far as town goes the only person im like almost certain on of at least not being mafia is Tric their role and general abilities are just too out there for me to think webadict would make a mafia that public having a mafia that gives buffs to (presumably) everyone would be a bit strange as well.

Dangerous assumption.  Wuba once gave two players in a BYOR-ish game the same (mechanical) role just to screw with them.  There have been some absolutely nuts roles he's given out, like the mafioso that could NK while dead in the last Magic Mafia or something else ridiculous like that.

FALLACYOFURIST SUPER MEGA PLAN

As an impartial observer (which I am not), this idea has merit on paper.  I'd reaaaaally want to be sure I trusted you before jumping in with both feet (again, as the impartial observer I am not.)



Oh wow there's hardly any content directed directly at me.  There's a good bit more digging I need to do, especially since I'm pretty sure I've spotted scum not named TricMagic; let me get this out because this game is nice and active.

[Lenglon]

I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me.

Why not vote Jim or Max if you suspect them to be chainsaw defending Tric? I think it's more likely a mafia!Jim or mafia!Max would defend a town!Tric.

Toony: These two statements do not match.

[Lenglon]

Toony: also, You say that Jim did a better job than you at explaining why you don't like FoU. I didn't understand Jim's reasoning in any meaningful way. It seemed like Jim was just saying that Tric was townie because Tric was townie, despite Tric to my eyes almost outright claiming to be 3p. So please tell me what Jim's reasoning was, then what yours is.

[ToonyMan]

I don't understand why they find Jim more suspicious than me when Jim explained his reasoning better than me.

Why not vote Jim or Max if you suspect them to be chainsaw defending Tric? I think it's more likely a mafia!Jim or mafia!Max would defend a town!Tric.

Toony: These two statements do not match.

What? FoU's said they find my defense of Tric genuine but don't find Jim's defense of Tric genuine. I'm saying that Jim put more reasoning into why Tric is likely not mafia than I did at that time. Which Max agreed with as well. So unless FoU is a god-wizard and is right on the money of a Tric/Jim/Max/Hector scumteam I think he's full of crap.

[ToonyMan]

Toony: also, You say that Jim did a better job than you at explaining why you don't like FoU. I didn't understand Jim's reasoning in any meaningful way. It seemed like Jim was just saying that Tric was townie because Tric was townie, despite Tric to my eyes almost outright claiming to be 3p. So please tell me what Jim's reasoning was, then what yours is.

I think before Jim posted all I had said about Tric was that I was extremely (100%) confident they weren't mafia. Jim posted this before I had elaborated to Toaster when they questioned me about it.

[Lenglon]

ffs. okay, apparently I'm not remembering things straight. I somehow had it in my head that Jim was saying Tric was obvtown and that you wanted FoU lynched for voting obvtown.

Instead you want FoU lynched because...?

[ToonyMan]

ffs. okay, apparently I'm not remembering things straight. I somehow had it in my head that Jim was saying Tric was obvtown and that you wanted FoU lynched for voting obvtown.

Instead you want FoU lynched because...?

I find FoU suspicious because their opener was lukewarm "I'm pretty sure I'm town" and then claimed uninspectable. I read them successfully as town during the start of the previous game where they sounded more genuine and resolute "I felt tears of joy seeing my role was town" or something. In addition their attack of Tric doesn't make sense to me and it looks like they're trying to vote someone for faulty reasons.

I'm tempted to take Max's offer to vote FoU, but there are thoughts I'm having:
1. I don't fully trust Max. I like Max, but it's not a guarantee. FoU and Max feel like two sides of the same coin. Both claim being a kind of miller. One attacks Tric, the other defends Tric. It's possible that FoU is correct, leading to...
2. I want to see FoU pressure Tric supporters which I think are more likely to be mafia than Tric himself. I don't think it's productive to pressure Tric.

[Toaster]

First pass was a bust.  I thought Max's vote of Knightwing here was garbage because he (in my mind) had just defended Tric's non-participation.  Upon further review, he specifically defended Tric the player as is, and not his content.  Past that he's been playing okay; well enough I guess?  Still think his "Miller" claim was a bit sus and late.  I am left with a question, though.

Maximum Spin:  Who's your pick after Fallacy?  Why?


I'm not liking Juicebox, based on two posts.

Quick Pfp

I meant that as in there hasn't been any follow up on it so far. Also what do you mean you're out of vote changes?

I don't like changing my vote a lot. If I don't have someone in mind to change it to, I tend to leave it in one place. So I was just kind of making a joke referencing that.
I didn't really think I needed to follow up. I still think Fallacy's suspicious - Jim actually just did a great job explaining why - but so do several other people, there's a lot of game left, I didn't think I needed to press the issue? This might be part of what ToonyMan means by saying I play selfishly. I just sort of think it is not my job to get this guy in particular voted out. You can even see the clear difference, if you look up webadict's Supernatural, when it was in fact literally my job to get one guy in particular voted out.

Maximum Spin - no complaints, much like notquitethere; His statement about trying to be more helpful did make me raise my eyebrow a little because I remember EuchreJack's comment from AutoMafia where he said if Max is trying to be helpful then he's scum and if he's trying to be aloof then he's town.

I like most everything in this readslist, but I just want to reassure you that EuchreJack isn't the god of my meta.
The eight posts starting from here:
I don't like this disengaged Knightwing, I don't feel good about this fake-looking Jack Panic, and I'm not a fan of this interaction, especially from two people I would most expect to interact like this as scum.
Wow, I guess that's everything. I thought there was going to be more. Maybe in my first readthrough I had more to say that I cared about less this time around.
My first instinct is to vote Knightwing. This isn't related to Lenglon doing so, I've been thinking about it since last night; but the reasoning is the same. This Knightwing seems, once again, to be faking playing the game. I also 100% believe he would submit mafia as his role preference, for what that's worth.

I like this post from Max, it's enough for me to unvote for now

I don't find Max's post near strong enough for Juice to back off a vote here.

Second, this too long to quote post about how he likes one of Knightwing's posts that I find barely adequate.  Maybe we just are really looking for different things in a post, but... yeah, that's how I want to say it.  Juicebox lacks commitment.  In this same post, he votes me...

Oh and before I forget, Tricmagic

But backs off it without mentioning anything else about me.   Overall, his content feels phoned in and inconsistent, with poor reasons for inconsistency.  I'm not QUITE sure enough to throw down a vote, but it's just weird and I don't like it.


Juicebox:  Why, exactly, was the above linked post from Knightwing so good?



Someone else did that too; they posted a vote and then quickly backed off it for no real good reason, but I'll be damned if I can find it now.


I'm not sure I trust Fallacy.  His opening gambit was good, and he's posting enough and presenting analysis.  Mmmmm I feel like he's more interested in getting a lynch in than actually convinced Fallacy is scum?  In his gambit conclusion post:

So, crazy theory. I think the scumteam could realistically be TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and then one or both of hector13/notquitethere, depending on how the setup works out. If there's a bunch of third parties it'd be just one of them, if not it's both.

Jim and notquitethere's behavior seems to match the idea of 'distance the guy that'll drag us down like an anchor if we don't'. Reluctant to target him, but acknowledging that he's funky as hell. Hector is less suspicious, but still a possibility.

If this theory does hold water I'd scum-percentage these people as 100% scum (required) TricMagic, 85% scum Jim, 65% notquitethere, 40% scum hector.

The thing is though?

This makes TricMagic an ideal execution / vote. Based on this connection, it'll be extremely informative about the scumminess or lack thereof of a good few people. Nearly everyone has thoughts on Tric. We don't lose anything from the vote since the most likely outcomes are he's either third party or scum - most of us don't think he's town.

It's, in other words, a safe, effective execution - perfect for Day 1.

I'm willing to sustain this vote for the remainder of the day unless a better target presents themselves.

I feel like he's conflating Tric's guilt and the informative value of Tric's lynch together.  You'll note a lack of conclusions drawn from a Tric flip of anything but red.  (Until Lenglon calls him out on this same point.) 


Okay, yeah.


FallacyofUrist:  What happens to your analysis and plan when I Unvote TricMagic for actually participating now?