No offense to Most Honorable Imperial Candidate Notquitethere, but reviewing Toonyman's post reveals that if (yes if) Toonyman is scum, he could very well be on a scum team with NQT. Note how NQT & Toonyman has supported one another the entire game.
Unlikely. You cannot claim I'm desperately jockeying for a D2 candidacy in one breath and then say I'm possibly partners with NQT in the other, unless you want to argue I'm that much of a tryhard, which again I was never "jockeying" in the first place.
An ISO of me would be interesting though. I should be more clear of my suspicions of you and Roden I think, to convince others.
Toony, pick two more candidates that don't include you.
Reina is absent, so Knightwing and Jim.
WTF? It'll make sense after you read the ISO
Whom Does Toonyman Want as Emperor? A Toonyman ISOFirst, the joke about Jim being King again.Then a vote for NQT which sticks for the entire day I think.
I think anybody who plays humble is probably scum. Although the fact you're aware of this makes it moot if you're scum so whatever. But at the same time, would you say this out loud in the first place if you were mafia? It's something to think about for sure.
So, what's the strategy in this setup? Do we prefer to find scum or figure out confirmed town?
If we can fully trust one player as town then I don't see how we could actually lose.
Maximum Spin
Egan_BW
reina
Cold of you to exclude notquitethere like that.
Oh, I can make it even better. We're not voting any one of the three of you! Ever! Thank me later.
ToonyMan - Jade
NQT - obviously Jade
Jim - probably Jade
Webadict - probably Jade
Knightwing - 
Roden -
Jack -
Maximum - likely Onyx
Egan - likely Onyx
reina - likely Onyx
are you seriously scumreading me because I got to the thread later than nqt
That does seem unfair.
Okay, you're the least suspicious of the three. But still not a good nominee.
Toony then starts townreading KnightwingWebadict is probably town too. I'm more sure of this then Jim or NQT or Jack right now. They seem genuinely willing to vote me as a nominee, which only works as a motive if they know they can get a Cabal member nominated.
Jim seems extremely goofy and I feel like they're town. I was right about this when they were posting in ALL CAPS for SBYOR2.
NQT is a ghost, but a ghost we must elect.
Jack's opener is very sterile and NAI. I can't tell either way right now. They're pointing things out and solving, but I don't see any big clears. Cautionarily precautious for the time being.
But we need one member of the Onyx Cabal in the final election if we're going to elect an Emperor, otherwise we get the Jade Council ending which is lame.
Personally, I agree. Having the game go to a Phase 2 is much more interesting. But this does play against my wincon and I'm not striving for it.
I have a question even though I already know the answer: Do you really believe NQT is a Jade loyalist?
Toony accepting a nomination from Web, and insisting it's "serious".Ppe: Egan, tell me what scum's strategy most likely will be
Voting cabal for emperor and not court?
Sounds legit
This is some big brain shit.
Votes Unused (1): Knightwing64
Knightwing, why aren't you voting??
On a continued think, I find this very interesting. Why hasn't Knightwing voted yet? They've been around and posting. I'm fairly sure they would have voted now, even themselves, but they haven't. Is this reservation because they don't know who to follow? But they also haven't voted themselves, maybe because they aren't confident they could win a nomination?
What are you thinking Knightwing?
So here, Toonyman seems to be encouraging Knightwing to run for a nomination. Important since Toonyman is currently promoting/voting Knightwing.
@Reina:
I still support NQT.
How about we propose councils?
I'm most comfortable with myself, NQT, Knightwing.
I tend to believe that Toonyman has in fact been jockying for himself, NQT & Knightwing for the entire game, and everything else has been to secure that specific council.
Toonyman latching onto the theory that Roden can't be nominated.I'm not comfortable with Jack, but I could support Reina. They keep pushing themselves with work and effort but have seen no outside support (until now I suppose). This means they're either town or scum completely flying solo.
Hm, so Reina was a compromise. We really can't know since Reina disappeared and became unviable.
Jim Groovester (and ToonyMan?) might actually be in a sect that requires a Jade Emperor (Or rather, requires a vote on Day 4 to win, since that's the less alignment specific one.)
That's crazy talk.
Toony's analysis of Day 1 Proposed Councils, noting he was tied with Reina & Roden in what he labelled "second tier"Insightful stuffI'm thinking it was done to intentionally reset the shorten votes in order to drag out the day and build apathy.
It's working.
Bargaining??
Unlike Jim and Max I'm okay with Reina in the council, but I'll only concede my vote to them if I have no chance at the nomination tomorrow.
Yep. You're the only one I'd be willing to bargain with because I know you'd be willing to give up your seat if you saw someone Townier available, even if you vocally disagree with that statement.
I would argue that doesn't make any sense, but I did give up my seat for NQT today.
and Knightwing could be scum, but he could also be extremely confused, but I can't say for sure which is which.
For the record, I think Knightwing is probably town. He could just be hiding it better after last time, but given my current field of candidates, it's somewhat less likely that he's being coached, so I'm just going to stick with the simpler option for now.
Given the previous game I weigh this opinion rather heavily.
This post is a copy from between D1 and D2 that I made by accident:
@Toony & Web: How exactly are Jim and I not on the same team? I'm not seeing it. Please explain, as I would like to see it.
What I mean is that I don't think you're both mafia. I feel like the grievances Jim is showing of you is very natural. He mocks you here. He implies you're Onyx here. He supports Roden's caution of you here. This reasons you're both town or only one of you is scum.
Toony, I think, just wants to be nominated. Look at how Toony clears away anyone that might possibly get nominated.
What do you mean? I would like to be nominated, but I'm not shutting down players I think are town.
Haaaaaa, who do I support: Reina or Roden?
(anybody notice something odd with the D1 vote count?)
I think Reina is the right pick between the two, for various reasons...
Knightwing, what do you think about Reina?
I feel like Reina has vocal detractors (it's not just Jim), while Roden does not. Is there anybody that's vehemently against Roden?
I'm not feeling inspired by the Roden/reina dichotomy. Toony is Jade to the bone, I want him on the council.
Nah, Roden. Toony is a D3 candidate, never earlier.
Why?
Thank you NQT, Jack, and Knightwing for the support. I will nominate myself for today. ToonyMan. This should force extreme action by the Onyx team, which will make the debate between Reina and Roden more clear.
Hm, maybe?
Funny how Toony never figures this as MY reason for voting him...
Do you believe this candidacy is unnatural?
How is this wrong when players are divided between Reina and Roden? Nobody felt like answering my questions about Roden and Reina has been on but has not posted. In fact, almost everyone is in agreement about Roden (like with NQT), but Roden's candidacy is nowhere near the same as NQT's, why?
Is the value of me being possibly elected on D3 that much greater than Reina or Roden possibly being elected on D3? I would think it would be more telling to have the divided election on a more important day.
YES YES YES, I DO believe this candidacy is unnatural!
I can see the pendulum swinging from Reina to Roden, and I would rather vote myself than Roden.
But Roden/Reina leaves the door open for scum to slip their preferred candidate onto the docket.
You really think so? You really think someone other than Roden or Reina will be nominated?
I'm apprehensive about Roden, call it hedging my bets. Roden has near universal support, including the D1 nominee NQT. I was probably going to vote Reina after people posted on D2, but players showed support for me while at the same time the Reina detractors had made Roden a favorite between the two. I have middling town reads of both players, so I know it's difficult. I'm mainly observing the difference in opinion players have between the two.
Is this post
honest?
Knightwing
I approve of this. It will also make Webadict bitch like crazy while quoting novels and make me a hypocrite wrt Jack.
Knightwing.
I have a much better read of Knightwing compared to Reina or Roden so I'm more comfortable with the candidacy.
PPE:
So Toonyman, why are you so eager for the Day 2 nomination?
I don't care.
If you're interested:
Reads
NQT
Knightwing
Webadict
Reina
Jim
Roden
Jack
Max
Egan
Or maybe Roden's scum game has gotten lots better. Like Roden climbed a mountain and meditated with a Mafia Guru for a couple weeks better.
You really stick up for Roden. I could be wrong about Max, in which case I do not want you, Roden, or Egan elected.
It's only reina or Roden for me.
Can everyone give their top2 now?
I'm willing to vote Reina or Knightwing.
Damn, fuck you too then. If you don’t want to nominate me, just say so. You don’t have to be such a asshole about it. Jeez
Nothing personal, kid. I just see you here posting things that aren't relevant, so that makes you scummy scummy scum scum.
I don't value your opinion of Knightwing.
@Jim:
I don't know what's going on with Reina being away, however:
1. Egan is likely Onyx.
2. Egan and Reina are likely not on the same team. (I explain why at the end of D1)
Although it's true that it's hard to support a vacant candidate.
@Jim:
I don't know what's going on with Reina being away, however:
1. Egan is likely Onyx.
2. Egan and Reina are likely not on the same team. (I explain why at the end of D1)
Although it's true that it's hard to support a vacant candidate.
I couldn't find it, link please?
I'm phone posting, sorry.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179819.msg8374104#msg8374104
I actually still don't understand what Toonyman is talking about here.
Please explain Toonyman.I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.
I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Toony, do you think you'd be better as an elector than a candidate?
Depends how many people trust me. Unlike Jack and Max I have no powers to contribute on a potential D4. If not enough people trust me then I can prove my worth through my own skills. If a Day 4 doesn't occur then it's no skin off my back, but I would like to know from the Onyx Cabal what went wrong for them.
If not enough people trust me then I can prove my worth through my own skills.
What I mean by this is that if people don't think I'm town enough for the council I can at least do my best to pick an Emperor should a D4 occur.
How can we oppose the late Emperor's nephew?
That being Maximum Spin, by the way.
Proposed Scum Team:
Egan_BW, reina, ToonyMan
Current theory on scum team: Toony is basically running solo, as both reina & Egan_BW have abandoned the game
I mean, just look at how ToonyMan has jockeyed the vote to get himself elected. I think he'd prefer reina, yet he knows reina disappeared from probably the scumchat as well as this thread. So he's scrambling to try to get himself elected as the only viable member of the scumteam.
...How am I pushing for myself? I've explained why I voted for myself today: players were nominating Roden instead of Reina while at the same time three other players had voted for me in succession (INCLUDING YOU). You keep saying this over and over again when it isn't true.
Your proposed scum team implies I got the scum shit stick again, in which case why have I been in a good mood for most of this game?
I find you suspicious, there are multiple reasons I can immediately think of from playing and observing:
1. The way you voted me between NQT and Knightwing and then "slipped the rug" from under my feet while going "gotcha" is suspicious.
2. Something very similar happened to Jim on D1 with you and Egan voting him.
3. The way you keep pushing for Roden (on D1 and D2[2]) is suspicious.
I was hoping NQT could grace Jim's request here, but the activity has been low D2 from some players. I'm going to have to pull up my pants and do my own analysis, although I would still like to hear from players such as EGANIAMLOST, and NOTQUITEAROUND, and WHEREREINA.
(too good not to quote)
Why don't you share why you think Egan is Onyx?
1. They're not cooperative when being inquired:
I don't support myself, fuck that guy. My council is Meph, Fal, and Mamobo.
2. They voted for Web end of D1:
Uhh, Webadict then. It's not gonna win the vote but whatever. Also Shorten.
3. They haven't posted at all for D2! They're literally on right now. I don't want to be a downer, so I'm not holding any grievances if you want to post something Egan.
Reina hasn't posted at all for D2 either, so that is a fair argument and the biggest reason I haven't voted for them.
PPE:
I think it's weirder that Toony started pushing more for a Reina nomination after Web switched from her and voted me, and that Toony wants Knightwing nominated at all.
I seem to recall voting for myself after three players showed me support, during Reina"s absence and continued absence.
Are you denying that you've been pushing for a Reina nomination?
I haven't voted for them today, but yes I was planning on voting Reina today and was likely going to push for their nomination if they were around. But they haven't been around, so that's why I voted myself and then Knightwing.
Also...Knightwing? Why do you want him nominated?
Because he's my second highest town read after NQT, maybe even higher now.
I'm mixed at the beginning.
I get a townread here.
Me mumbling to myself, I'm internally questioning whether mafia!Knightwing plays like this and I come to the conclusion that no, he doesn't.
Max townreads Knightwing, which I weigh heavily.
(Webadict also scumreads Knightwing, which I weigh oppositely.)
In conclusion it's a very strong townread.
So, overall ToonyMan seems to campaigning to get NQT, Knightwing, and himself nominated, because as he so eloquently stated, "If we can fully trust one player as town then I don't see how we could actually lose." And in addition, I think his self-promotion has aligned with his theory that "I think anybody who plays humble is probably scum."
But he refuses to admit that is the game he is playing. To me, there is something artificial about the way Toonyman has been acting. Like instead of being a Town player following a Town strategy, he is instead an Onyx player following a Town strategy.
...then again, Toonyman IS a political candidate, so maybe he's intentionally being slimy to better fit the part?
Also, if Toony is scum, there is maybe a 50/50 chance it is with NQT. They've been supporting each other all game (it's two directional). But I don't
really need to ISO NQT until day 4, a day that might not come if NQT is town, so...pass on reading NQT's alignment.
(conclusion written before reading the top quote from Toony, followed by the WTF?)
Author
Topic: Jade Court - Game Over - All's Well That Ends Well (Read 38441 times)