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[Strongpoint]

Nah, it did. Main westward road from Kyiv was filled to the brim for few days straight. How do you think all those refugee hordes left the country? 

I didn't say that there were no traffic jams. I said there were no traffic jams everywhere. Huge majority of roads were free and operational for essential logistics and there was no nationwide panic. And even convoys of civilian cars going to Poland were quite fast-moving (in part because Poland did everything superbly, Poland managed to accept a huge amount of traffic through several border crossings. Polish help was (and is) immense)

[Il Palazzo]

Right, and here you see one traffic jam. Like you see on any highway, anywhere, everyday. But you decide to read it as widespread panic.

[Strongpoint]

Right, and here you see one traffic jam. Like you see on any highway, anywhere, everyday. But you decide to read it as widespread panic.

Widespread? No(t yet). But if you want to persuade me that this traffic jam isn't caused by Russian tourists suddenly deciding to abort their vacation... I won't believe you

[bloop_bleep]

Except there is only one highway from Crimea to Russia -- the Kerch strait bridge -- and that is what is filled with traffic in a particular direction. Thus we can say that there is an abnormally high amount of traffic going between those two destinations even given only this one traffic jam. There is more than one border crossing between Poland and Ukraine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Euan_MacDonald/status/1557026534635995139

[Il Palazzo]

But how do you >know< it's not a regular traffic jam on a highway? This is a genuine question. Like, are all those cars on plates from outside Crimea? (for example)
I get into at least one jam whenever I drive between Krakow and Wroclaw. It's not that hard to find one to film and slap a heart-warming/vindicative/propagandist explanation on. Because it couldn't possibly be another broken truck blocking a lane.

You do understand what I'm getting at, right?

[nenjin]

Propaganda is a useful tool for everyone. It's just easier to assume Ukrainian propaganda is true because we largely sympathize with them and not the Russians.

[Strongpoint]

But how do you >know< it's not a regular traffic jam on a highway? This is a genuine question. Like, are all those cars on plates from outside Crimea?

Why do I assume that it is not a regular traffic jam?

Because it is not the only source of information that Russian tourists are leaving Crimean beaches en masse. Because I know that usually there are no multi-hour traffic jams in this area at this time of the year. It isn't early-mid September when Russians come home from vacations.

[King Zultan]

Why is a traffic jam that big of a deal anyway, wouldn't the Russian vacationers have left the area long ago?

[Random_Dragon]

Why is a traffic jam that big of a deal anyway, wouldn't the Russian vacationers have left the area long ago?

Cockiness due to Putin's propaganda, or possibly not wanting to be seen giving the regime an obvious sign that they don't believe in Dear Leader's ability to ensure their safety, which may run the risk of suicide by defenestration/shooting oneself in the back of the head/serving oneself a cup of polonium tea/etc.

Or just being mocked as cowards by their fellows who drank much more of the koolaid, since being outed as someone who went too easy on the koolaid is a Bad Thing in fascist communities. That's presumably not pleasant either.

[Strongpoint]

Russians keep shelling the area around the Zaporizhya nuclear plant today... Or one can think that Ukrainians are doing it just before Russia called for a UN Security Council to discuss the situation around the station.

[nenjin]

The prospect of Russia destroying a large nuclear power plant as part of a scorched earth policy is kind of terrifying. After the number of nuclear disasters they've been witness to, you'd think that would be a bridge too far. But I don't anything is a bridge too far for the current regime.

[martinuzz]

If they cause a nuclear disaster there, it will likely be bigger than Chernobyl, looking at the power plant's size.
That would mean (depending on the wind) irradiating half of Europe again.
Which I think would mean war.

Also I don't think it was Russia who called for the UN Security meeting. Unless they called for it after a lot of other countries had already called for that (and the UN Secretary already strongly suggested the power plant be abandoned as a military site by Russia)

[Strongpoint]

Listening to the Russian UN representative... I raise my own estimated probability of them blowing up the station and blaming Ukraine to something around 20%

[bloop_bleep]

Eh, easy there. The Kremlin's statements should be taken as a black box mostly. They say absolutely whatever and whenever to give an aura of unpredictability so their threats create more unease. There is little of underlying value to be found there.

[King Zultan]

I'm surprised they haven't blown the thing up already given how shit they've been with other things they've done during this whole war.