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[EuchreJack]

Now THIS is the thread to discuss your responses to the War in Ukraine, how you feel about it, how it affects you personally.

I would ask that everyone respect the quite harsh reactions that some may have to these events.  War is nasty enough, suffering is prevalent, try not to add to negativity if you can.

Good civil discourse will keep this thread going longer.  Please, avoid advocating for death as much as possible.

Please avoid personal attacks!  Whether or not you agree with what someone said several weeks ago...was relevant several weeks ago.  Let it go, please.

[hector13]

The Ukraine war thread was locked for a reason, so probably not a good idea to establish other threads in its wake for the time being.

[EuchreJack]

First, I would like to thank you for using the correct thread to discuss your thoughts on this matter.

Second, I think the flow of information that existed in the Ukraine thread is vitally important, and needs to be maintained.  Hopefully, if others can respect the division of reporting and responding like you have, then we'll at least keep the informational thread going.  This thread, might flicker a bit, but the dissemination of information should continue.

[nenjin]

Just exercise prudent control over the thread so Toady doesn't have to, and all will be well. (.....at least for us armchairing over the internet.)

[bloop_bleep]

I hope Merkel, Sarkozy, and every other bought politician in France and Germany gets shipped off to the Hague next to Putin.

[heydude6]

In light of the latest news in the info thread, I must say that I'm genuinely disturbed. It seems like Russia is trying to cultivate a fanaticism against Ukraine that is equivalent to Ukraine's against Russia. Putin has always been a master at blaming his own atrocities on his enemies, so I'm genuinely worried that he's gonna pull this off.

Frankly, I feel like we're Carthage during the second Punic Wars. We were attacked by a superior enemy, but due to cleverness and morale we were able to score victory after victory, only to lose it all at the end once it was no longer possible to ignore basic realities.

Perhaps Russia itself is ignoring realities, maybe there's a growing rebel faction who us westerners aren't able to know about, but I doubt Putin would let such people live if he knew about them.

I feel like this coming decade is going to be a hellish one.

EDIT:

What we need right now are psyops, ways of sneaking information into the Russian poeple that will make them doubt Putin's narrative. I believe Ukraine can hold it's own against unmotivated conscripts, but if the Russians actually start to fight with ferocity, then the country and by extension the World is doomed.

[EuchreJack]

Thanks for keeping your thoughts to this thread. I appreciate it.

[MaxTheFox]

PTW.

[Strongpoint]

So... I don't want to post this in the news thread because it is not something I can back with the link and more like my own observations on the current situation in Ukraine mixed with my own subjective thoughts


1) Ukrainian economy is... collapsing. Between physical destruction, disruption of supply chains, the collapse of demand (people spend money only on essential stuff), and workforce being mobilized... many business are collapsing and cash reserves of the population are dwindling down

2) Mood is increasingly grim. It started as a war for freedom, now it is apparent that this is a war for survival. More and more people come to the realization that should we lose Russians will do to us with Germans did to Jews in the 1940s

3) Even with war censorship and fog of war it becomes more and more apparent how high our casaulities are. After all, we give our fallen proper funeral. My own estimation is 10 000+ killed servicemen, 100 000+ killed civilians. Most people I know have more pessimistic estimates

4) Mood is gradually shifting from "we will win" to "we will make Russians pay". Everyone (at least around me) is beginning that in this war of attrition we are not the winning side. Sanctions on Russia are cool and everything, but their infrastructure isn't blowing up. Positive news from the front bring little joy - Yay, 10 Russian tanks destroyed today. Whatever, they have thousands more.

5) In the same time, all those diplomatic negotiations with Russians cause nothing but anger. What kind of deals our government wants to sign with those lying monsters? I guarantee you that any ceasefire\peace deal with Russia that will include territorial concessions or limitations to our armed forces or some kind of neutral status, will result in Zelensky's approval rating going well below pre-war 35% and the country, devastated by the war, will enter into a political crisis of epic proportions

6) Everyone is horrified thinking about the fate of people still in occupation. Rumors about Bucha and other towns and villages were circulating weeks before its liberation, no one wanted to believe them. Now people tend to believe in all rumored atrocities... And there are many rumors, many very nasty rumors

[heydude6]

Probably not the best thing to hear while I’m trying to fall asleep. Guess I’ll have to comment.

All of the above makes it sound like Ukraine’s gonna turn into Vietnam. If Russia conquers it, then expect survivors to hide and perform guerrilla attacks. I expect much savagery.

Ironically, the Viet Kong were constantly able to acquire new recruits in spite of the crimes they committed. Maybe these Ukrainians will find a way to bring the truth to Russians somehow, and perhaps lead a revolt that could destroy Putin from within.

[Strongpoint]

Probably not the best thing to hear while I’m trying to fall asleep. Guess I’ll have to comment.

All of the above makes it sound like Ukraine’s gonna turn into Vietnam. If Russia conquers it, then expect survivors to hide and perform guerrilla attacks. I expect much savagery.

Ironically, the Viet Kong were constantly able to acquire new recruits in spite of the crimes they committed. Maybe these Ukrainians will find a way to bring the truth to Russians somehow, and perhaps lead a revolt that could destroy Putin from within.

Russians know the truth. All of it. They have internet. It is largely unrestricted (and existing restrictions are easily bypassed by a basic VPN) and all information is available in Russian language. They choose to ignore it.

[MaxTheFox]

Probably not the best thing to hear while I’m trying to fall asleep. Guess I’ll have to comment.

All of the above makes it sound like Ukraine’s gonna turn into Vietnam. If Russia conquers it, then expect survivors to hide and perform guerrilla attacks. I expect much savagery.

Ironically, the Viet Kong were constantly able to acquire new recruits in spite of the crimes they committed. Maybe these Ukrainians will find a way to bring the truth to Russians somehow, and perhaps lead a revolt that could destroy Putin from within.

Russians know the truth. All of it. They have internet. It is largely unrestricted (and existing restrictions are easily bypassed by a basic VPN) and all information is available in Russian language. They choose to ignore it.

Many people, particularly older ones, don't trust Western news because they have been brainwashed. Not really their fault, the propaganda machine painting Western news sources as fakes is strong.

Do you expect a tech-illiterate person (of which there are many in Russia) who mostly hangs around heavily-censored social networks like VK to know what a VPN is to access the truth?

[King Zultan]

I have no emotions to add, unless PTW is an emotion.

[Strongpoint]

I have... had a cousin living in Russia for the past 20 years. He knows everything. I told him the truth. His aunt told him the truth. His brother told him the truth... His parents didn't live long enough but I think he wouldn't accept the truth from them either.

Flat earthers have full access to proofs Earth is a sphere. Antivaxers have full access to proofs that vaccines save lives. Biblical literalists have full access to proofs that biological evolution is a fact. Radical Trumpists have full access to proofs that there were no rigged elections in the USA. Trying to bring the truth to these people is a waste of time and effort. They already know the truth, they choose to not believe it. If facts contradict their beliefs, those facts will be ignored.

[martinuzz]

YouTube has suspended the account of a Chinese vlogger who reported on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Spoiler: from BBC live updates (click to show/hide)

YouTube suspends channel of Chinese vlogger reporting on Ukraine

YouTube has suspended the account of a Chinese vlogger reporting on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Wang Jixian, a resident of Odesa for the past four years, said he had been posting videos of the Russian invasion to counter China's narrative of what was happening in the country. He says he had received multiple messages not to "provoke" Beijing.

China has been making concerted efforts to stifle strong views about the conflict in the country and has refrained from condemning Russia so far.

"I'm countering lies and panic by reporting from the front line," Wang told Radio Free Asia.

He says his YouTube account was suspended for posting "violent content" in a video from 28 March. Wang says his appeal against the suspension was ignored by the platform.

The BBC was able to confirm that although the channel is up, Wang is unable to post new videos.

Chinese censors have also cracked down on Wang's videos on the messaging app WeChat and Douyin, the country's version of TikTok.

Wang's Chinese social media accounts were previously banned after he spoke to CNN.

Youtube licking Pooh's poohole