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[Toaster]

How did Lucky's kill work, mechanically?  What if the target tried to act/be acted on during the game?


I spent most of the game confused and I still am; gonna read these actions and see if I can put it together.

[ToonyMan]

sigh

[ToonyMan]

*etches yet another loss into their tombstone*

I felt like my town play was on fire, how did we lose this?

Reads
Town
Vector - genius scum with Tric or...town. Would have to figure out to kill 4maskwolf on N1, then fake-claim a mafia result on NQT to have them reveal themselves as lovers with me which would nail them another two town. Vector pushed a case on NQT during D1 so inspecting them N1 isn't odd.
TricMagic - genius scum with Vector or...town and really did track Vector to NQT N1.
Secret - mafia tried to frame them on D1, NQT and FoU pushed for their lynch D1.
Jim - confirmed town by Secret. 4maskwolf mindmelded with them. Suspicious of FoU on D1.
Toaster - wouldn't get matchmake'd by NQT on D1 with Toony. Suspicious of NQT on D1.
Caz - very consistent and active when they aren't WASTED. Completely destroyed NQT with me, at the bottom of the town list because they could possibly be bussing NQT here but it's so unlikely unless FoU is town.

Neutral
Blue - super shady, but doesn't fit into a three person mafia team. Newb town?

Scum
Reverie - kept pushing that Tric was the 4mask killer, but then Tric came out with information that definitely confirms they tracked Vector (I know this because Vector targeted me on D1). NQT put Rev as scum on D1, but never voted them. Only Vector voted Reverie with an actual case no less. FoU lists as town on D1. Is most likely the 4mask killer.
FoU - not going to repeat myself from D1, new stuff for D2 is they're defending NQT and want to lynch Caz instead.
NQT - confirmed liar, many other reasons

[webadict]

How did Lucky's kill work, mechanically?  What if the target tried to act/be acted on during the game?


I spent most of the game confused and I still am; gonna read these actions and see if I can put it together.

They would be killed on the Night it was performed. Then, at the end of the next Night, they'd die. It was entirely unpreventable.

dead scum players performing nightkill

Fucking goddamit.

The Roleblocker role was a hard role to balance around. I could have tuned it back and made a different counter to it, but I liked that it could clear people by using their spells. So, I left a counter in the form of dead players that could Mafiakill. I figured that the doctor double-voter would be the biggest overkill in the game, and Toaster nearly found the way to win no matter what happened. I think Toaster's role was a tad underpowered, but wasn't aware of how so until the about Night 1.

*etches yet another loss into their tombstone*

I felt like my town play was on fire, how did we lose this?

A reliance on mechanical confirmation confused the Town. The problem relied heavily on finding which player was lying when all of their actions could be proven.

[Toaster]

Oh, okay, BK's role was super strong.  Got it.



Damn it, what did I miss?

Having the ability to break more people would have been nice.  I kept making bad choices for my ability targets, I think.


Having Toony's loverdeath on NQT be a feature of both their roles was an interesting trick.  He almost got saved.

[Jim Groovester]

webadict, for BYOR 15 you posted some notes about your thought process making the roles. You got something similar for this game? I enjoyed reading that from BYOR 15.

I feel mildly vindicated for my 100% accurate read on BluearianKnight on Day 3 but I still lost so I guess it didn't matter.

Point being, building WIFOM into the night game seems to be a feature of webadict games and relying on assumptions like one action per phase is dangerous.

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

[ToonyMan]

I really don't feel like mafia should get rewarded for dying.

Unless NQT and Fallacy were lying in dead chat, they admitted themselves they weren't happy with their play this game and that it cost them their lives because of it.

This should hurt the mafia team, not help them. Losing members makes it more challenging to cover kills.

I'm willing to give Blue a pass only because I wasn't alive to truly suspect them while in dead chat.

Having Toony's loverdeath on NQT be a feature of both their roles was an interesting trick.  He almost got saved.

I mean, why should thinking up clever ideas with Caz work out for me? Or determining town and mafia by player's behaviors and not just mechanical confirmations?

I can't believe I wasted time trying to help Blue in dead chat. I feel...betrayed. The only reason I didn't bother suspecting them strongly in dead chat is because then there would be no point in me typing anything at all in dead chat, a pointless existence.

[webadict]

Oh, okay, BK's role was super strong.  Got it.



Damn it, what did I miss?

Having the ability to break more people would have been nice.  I kept making bad choices for my ability targets, I think.


Having Toony's loverdeath on NQT be a feature of both their roles was an interesting trick.  He almost got saved.

Yes. BK's role was like... 3 times more powerful than NQT or FoU's role. That was... slightly unintentional? BK's role was originally meant to just be a counter to the Roleblocker, but it felt like they were missing something for them. I think if I re-ran this, I'd make a lot of changes to Day of the Dead. Like, all the changes. I think it's neat in concept, but bad overall. I'd have to have something better next time.

You had a Guard -> Protect loop for Jim Groovester. Jim could protect you, you could guard Jim, and there'd be nothing that could stop it. Even Secretdorf's roleblock wouldn't stop it, since you out-prioritized it.

If I remade the Mafiateam, I'd make Matchmake permanent, FoU would have their abilities combined from the get-go, and Blu would have Raise Dead probably gutted to a one-shot again.

webadict, for BYOR 15 you posted some notes about your thought process making the roles. You got something similar for this game? I enjoyed reading that from BYOR 15.

I feel mildly vindicated for my 100% accurate read on BluearianKnight on Day 3 but I still lost so I guess it didn't matter.

Point being, building WIFOM into the night game seems to be a feature of webadict games and relying on assumptions like one action per phase is dangerous.

siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

YES! You called it EXACTLY! I was very impressed that you not only pointed out the correct Mafia, but the reason why it could still be BluarianKnight!

As for notes, I had them in my Google Doc to start with, but I remeoved them as I went along, so sadly this time, they're all in my head. But, if you'd like my rationale behind a specific decision, I can try to answer it.

I mean, why should thinking up clever ideas with Caz work out for me? Or determining town and mafia by player's behaviors and not just mechanical confirmations?

Actually, you would have survived if Caz had vanilla'd you. TricMagic had stolen NQT's auto, so it WOULD HAVE WORKED, since TricMagic was still alive.

[FallacyofUrist]

I feel like I've learned a few things. And I have a few regrets.

Learned:

1: Process of elimination is dangerous in games with unknown factors.

2: I am always not town in wuba games. The streak goes mafia - outsider - mafia - werewolf - mafia, now. It's statistically improbable, but this means I quite literally have more scum experience than town experience.

Regrets:

1: I could have played better. A bit more stable, perhaps. My lack of caution left me with unstable footing and cost the scum a (not very valuable) player.

2: Shouldn't have tunneled so hard onto Caz.

Although my casual townread on Reverie contributed to their execution, so that was nice?

Role thoughts:

I'm... not sure how much utility my transformation really provided. More like flexibility, but not so much in the way of utility. Still, my team got Blue with his S+ rank role, so that made up for it.

Theoretically I could have set up fake alibis, but Blu didn't even need that.

[ToonyMan]

Actually, you would have survived if Caz had vanilla'd you. TricMagic had stolen NQT's auto, so it WOULD HAVE WORKED, since TricMagic was still alive.

fuck

[Jim Groovester]

You had a Guard -> Protect loop for Jim Groovester. Jim could protect you, you could guard Jim, and there'd be nothing that could stop it. Even Secretdorf's roleblock wouldn't stop it, since you out-prioritized it.

I recognized this possibility and it not happening figured into my suspicion of Toaster on day 5 from dead chat. I didn't mention it in dead chat since I still suspected BluearianKnight to some degree and didn't want to give away too much of my thoughts.

[BluarianKnight]

Animate Dead was a bit too strong - but it was the only way I was able to win that.

I'm very curious - why was NQT and FoU targetted? Did someone day-target and get lucky, or was it just really bad plays?

[BluarianKnight]

Also - I was banking HARD on deadchat for good ideas/mining for them.

[FallacyofUrist]

Animate dead was a literal LYLO breaker - handed out for free. At least Parallel Double required some setup first.

I think the caveat to animate dead was the required full moon timing, because if that didn't align well enough then summoning the dead mafia players would just be a delaying measure. It just worked perfectly this game. High swing.

They would be killed on the Night it was performed. Then, at the end of the next Night, they'd die. It was entirely unpreventable.

Would it be more accurate to say that they die when they are killed, but get the privilege of acting like they're alive until their time runs out? Omae wa mou shindeiru - you are already dead?

[Vector]

I'm very curious - why was NQT and FoU targetted?

With my inspect and my daykill? Because I used the day game to figure out that they were scum, bro :/