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[ToonyMan]

You shouldn't let town use the mafiakill, no.

[notquitethere]

Haha no. No I shouldn't. I'll clarify the OP.

[mightymushroom]

- Mafia gain this ability: Mafiakill [DEADLY][KILL] ...
...
19. Tricksome (you may only use [TWISTY] and [WARPING] abilities...

As written, it looks like Tricksome would prevent a Mafia player from using the Mafiakill?

There are scenarios where losing that flexibility could put a small team (especially the "last" mafioso) in an unusually uphill battle depending on how many town players remain. I bring it up because I had this experience in Most Vanilla Mafia 1 after circumstance made things 1v7, I was agonizing over whether to skip one or more kills and go into hiding, but I had little confidence in my ability to escape even by doing so. That game had an actual alignment cop and this one doesn't, so not perfectly analogous but still a point I want to raise. Fewer kills at night mean powers keep accumulating, which in turn leads to situations where win or loss is more to luck night guessing than clever daytime play.

No, you don't have to divulge your abilities, though if they guess the other parakeetkin could use them.

That answers my mechanical question about ParakeetChat. I believe there are still possible concerns around the edges but we should let this experiment run once before deciding whether the metagame needs adjustment.

Including the mafiakill?

Hmm... The most likely outcome is that the steal fails (it is rare for mafia to skip a kill, and Owner's Priority should apply). Is there any scenario in which one can differentiate between not killing because there was no kill to use vs. not killing because the ability can't be used twice in a night? So long as this doesn't lead to a pseudo-cop investigation I'm inclined to allow it.

On the other hand, if for some oddball reason (see above?) the mafia team doesn't use Mafiakill then a steal can succeed. Then the town!Keet will need to cajole enough action claims to assess whether anyone who died that night and/or was protected from death was their practical target (as distinct from intended target). Just the suspicion of a successful steal is a powerful thing, but other town would likely be skeptical. If the town!Keet is willing to put in the investigative work the day after for a steal that probably didn't happen, I'm inclined to allow that too.

PPE: I see the discussion on this moved the other way while I was refining my cases (and rereading the end of MVM1). Eh, so be it.

[notquitethere]

There are scenarios where losing that flexibility could put a small team (especially the "last" mafioso) in an unusually uphill battle depending on how many town players remain. I bring it up because I had this experience in Most Vanilla Mafia 1 after circumstance made things 1v7, I was agonizing over whether to skip one or more kills and go into hiding, but I had little confidence in my ability to escape even by doing so. That game had an actual alignment cop and this one doesn't, so not perfectly analogous but still a point I want to raise. Fewer kills at night mean powers keep accumulating, which in turn leads to situations where win or loss is more to luck night guessing than clever daytime play.

It does make things quite difficult for the mafia team, though not impossible. The possibility for these flaws to invalidate earlier choices is a bit troublesome though. However, there's still viable plays. E.g. a player locked into Warping could aim to Bodyswap their way out of it.

[ToonyMan]

Reasons for not letting players borrow the mafiakill in the Parakeetkin chat:
1. The mafiakill is a factional kill. A non-mafia player using a mafiakill sounds weird.
2. More than likely at least one mafia player won't be a Parakeetkin, which means the borrowing player is trying to use something that isn't even fully the player they're borrowing from.

Reasons for letting players borrow the mafiakill in the Parakeetkin chat:
1. Can lead to interesting situations where if the mafia isn't able to perform their kill for whatever reason and every mafia left is a Parakeetkin, another player could borrow the mafiakill and probably off someone. This would confirm to that player that somebody in the Parakeetkin chat is 100% mafia. This is quite bad for the mafia if there's only two Parakeetkins.
2. More than likely the mafia will be using their kill, so disallowing non-mafia from using the mafiakill is pointless.

I can't say which is a better choice. Letting town use the mafiakill could be more interesting, but it feels wrong to me.

[mightymushroom]

It does make things quite difficult for the mafia team, though not impossible.

No, not impossible; I don't think it is a necessity for mafia to kill in the night. I just wanted to raise the issue because the assumption of mafia killing in the night is so ingrained into the running and playing of a standard game; I can attest that the prospect of hiding for as many as five days* just to get my "innate" power back would be psychologically daunting. But there are indeed other plays. Twisty redirects of other players can be gained sooner, for instance.

*How long do we expect the game to last?

The possibility for these flaws to invalidate earlier choices is a bit troublesome though.

More of a "next time" problem in my opinion; I trust nobody signed up without expecting at least some chaos from random elements. This ruleset is a marked improvement over the earlier version I saw in Setup Discussion & Review.


Re: Town accessing Mafiakill – I actually had a form of that in Mafiakart racing, via my Copycat ability. (I ended up never copying anyone.) It may "sound" weird, but is no different in mechanics* from town having any other killing ability. What matters is how they choose to use it – and in this case they wouldn't necessarily even know that they have it.

*Assuming we avoid the ridiculous scenario where tag-searching powers register a hit on any parakeetkin if one of them is "sharing" the wrong right abilities.

[webadict]

I'll serve as a replacement.

Too many choices for my blood.

[notquitethere]

Thanks Web.

--

Mightymushroom, how long the game lasts all depends how many players signup. 7 is the minimum, and with that we might expect to see the start of D4 if not every kill goes through or there's some resurrection.

Did you want to join?

[mightymushroom]

*deep breath*

You've talked me INto it.

Pellucid Llama - You don't show up up in the action reports of [ENLIGHTENING] abilities.
...
2. Blatant (all your actions become Public)

As written without tags on Flaws, it appears Blatant would almost entirely negate Pellucid Llama's racial specialty. That feels harsh.

[Vector]

We require 9+. Yes?

[Jim Groovester]

Watching for now. I'll hem and haw for a while about whether I want to join and by the time I make a decision the game will have started.

[webadict]

Watching for now. I'll hem and haw for a while about whether I want to join and by the time I make a decision the game will have started.

Just be a replacement!

[Vector]

Watching for now. I'll hem and haw for a while about whether I want to join and by the time I make a decision the game will have started.

Just be a replacement!

or ... you could in ...

[ToonyMan]

Watching for now. I'll hem and haw for a while about whether I want to join and by the time I make a decision the game will have started.

Just be a replacement!

or ... you could in ...

That would require Jim putting his perfect win rate in jeopardy.

[webadict]

Watching for now. I'll hem and haw for a while about whether I want to join and by the time I make a decision the game will have started.

Just be a replacement!

or ... you could in ...

That would require Jim putting his perfect win rate in jeopardy.

That sounds like salt.