Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hector13]

I’d love to be a VT in a game like this.

In saying that I just love being a VT.

It’s unfortunate I’m a paranoid gun owner then eh.

Right, you’re trying to find my scum buddies. What are your thoughts on my potential partners? Is it webadict, and we’re distancing ourselves from each other? Is it Dolores, saying nice things about me in an effort to get you to back off?

Was I truthin’ when I said FoU and roseheart, and we’ve been arguing in our quick topic ever since?

Someone else?

[Nirur Torir]

I'm bored of chasing you. I thought you were a newb trying a weird thing. But you're just weird.

Answering a related question, top 3 scumpicks ..
I'd guess Failbird105 is flailing about, trying to get direction from a more experienced partner who's absent: IcyTea, Toma, or FallacyofUrist.
But then Kit's just being a sheep, Roseheart's still not here, and Webby's not doing much.
I'm leaning towards you being town since it'd have been trivial for you to leave D1 dead.

[Failbird105]

I'm bored of chasing you. I thought you were a newb trying a weird thing. But you're just weird.

Answering a related question, top 3 scumpicks ..
I'd guess Failbird105 is flailing about, trying to get direction from a more experienced partner who's absent: IcyTea, Toma, or FallacyofUrist.
But then Kit's just being a sheep, Roseheart's still not here, and Webby's not doing much.
I'm leaning towards you being town since it'd have been trivial for you to leave D1 dead.

Fine, you want me to vote, I'll vote
Nirur Torir

Honestly I'm beginning to wonder if I'm cut out for this.

[KitRougard]

Cut out for what, playing Forum Mafia or being Forum Mafia Scum? Don't worry this is my first forum game too. Since it feels bad to drop hector13 for some reason, I'm going to lock in Failbird105 and set down my brain and lurk silently so I stop aggravating people with my "uuuhhhh imma vote hi- want, no, them... Actually, that guy... No, never mind." I do that on ToS too. Like I said, never got out of Silver.

[FallacyofUrist]

Is it just me, or are hector and webadict acting the same way? I do know it doesn't seem like webadict's WIFOM has actually helped in any way, while hector's has been more productive. Food for thought.

Honestly I'm beginning to wonder if I'm cut out for this.

Same here buddy, but I'll do my best.

FoU is alway scum until proven otherwise, which is when he’s dead.

Is that like, a trope in the games I've played or something?
~~~
I'm not sure why Dolores is acting the way she does. Although I can't deny it's getting results. She's not possible to ignore when acting like that.

Seems town to me.
~~~
Overall, Failbird's contributing a lot more than webadict is.

[webadict]

Hey man, I actually agree with you. But just because I agree with almost everything you said doesn't really mean a whole lot. I'm not really afraid of being lynched. At least, not yet. Not because I don't think it'd be detrimental to the town: I do. The problem is that if people can't go after the obvious things, what WILL they go after? You're right to push and prod. You're right to namecall and all that jazz, but if I am a detriment, then what are all those people who don't think I'm a detriment? Aren't they even more of a detriment? The inability to identify scummy behavior? The lack of will to vote as necessary? They are scummier. Because scum are okay with that behavior.

It's a recurring cycle. You can't win a game when the rest of the Town has no sense. But, you can't force them to have any sense. Maybe this is the wake-up call at the beginning of the game to alert everyone that it's not okay anymore.

Anyway, the real point is that these opening posts are a reflection of the post-post-modern style of Mafia we seem to have, where apparently you can Org around and do literally -- and I mean literally -- nothing useful for three Days and not be lynched. It's like Christmas at the garbage dump! Everybody gets trash. Nobody gets anything they wanted.

So, the question I'm faced with is this: When will this be unacceptable? Is it stupid to martyr for the cause? For my beliefs?

My gut says yes. But, my brain says this game won't be worth playing until it stops. So, I've made this a solid middle ground, where I will continue to screw around until everyone gets serious. Because, let's face it, even if I did that every post, for some reason unfathomable to all intelligent life, I would probably not be lynched. Because you are right. When your behavior is "normal," you get anything you ever wanted.

[RoseHeart]

hi

[hector13]

I’m going to nightkill you for that roseheart.

[webadict]

hi

This is the stuff that proves my point.

[Nirur Torir]

Did you really join just to ruin it for the four of us who actually want to play?

[hector13]

There’s a difference between being a player in the game and actually playing the game.

[webadict]

hi

roseheart. Because it's the easy thing to do, but also because it's hypocritical for me not to attempt to force others to play better than the way I'm currently playing.

[Tomasque]

Sorry I'm late. Mafia has started in a really unfortunate timeframe for me. I just had a robotics contest this weekend, and will have one again next weekend.

Tomasque: who is the highest threat to you right now?

Kit. Although I'm seeing suspicious actions in a lot of people, his actions have made me think that he's the most likely to be scum. The explanation is at the bottom of this post.

Tomasque: what're your opinions on the Hector matters?

It looks like he was trying to draw attention to himself. I think that he's either scum that affects visitors, or an investigator that looks at all visitors.

Toma, Roseheart, Dolores Will you be joining us today?

I'm here. Now I'd like to ask you something.

You say that I'm an experienced player, which leads me to think that you've only looked at my profile stats. However, the following line shows that you've previously become aware of the necessity of looking at a player's actual post history before judging them:

Yeah, I didn't think to check the post history and thought Hector was inexperienced.

But if you did look at my posting history, you would know that a majority of my mafia posts don't come from playing, but from running Mafia Marathon. And that makes your assertion that I am an experienced player a lie. Now I'd just say that something like that makes you a candidate for a pressure vote, but I think you'll agree that we should lynch all liars, Nirur Torir.

  If you had to come up with a defense right now, what would it be?

Tomasque: is webadict going to do enough work for us to read him during day 1?

Just like with hector13, the way he's acting makes it hard to say whether he's scum or town...

...is what I would say if this hadn't happened:

hi

roseheart. Because it's the easy thing to do, but also because it's hypocritical for me not to attempt to force others to play better than the way I'm currently playing.

webadict: I thought you said you didn't care that you were being voted, and that you weren't even playing seriously, but now that you've recently gotten a lot of votes, you've latched onto an early bandwagon (nirur's vote and hector's threat) the moment you saw one ready to form. If you're trying to stop lazy behavior as you say you are, then why haven't you punished it before? All you've done is vote hector once - then done nothing with it - and for all your posturing you haven't criticize a specific person's behavior at all.

So the answer to your question, dolores, is that if I can get blood from this stone, far better scum-hunters than me should be able to get a good read on him by the end of today.

Hector13 has the numbers right! I don't know about the true neutrals, but the Evils are spot on!
*phew*
And "buddies" is because there's rarely just ONE mafia in a 10 game.

Alright, Kit, let's take a look at what you've done this game. There's something in particular that I want to bring to your attention.

You vote for hector once he's already been voted by Nirur, then back off once Nirur questions whether you really should be voting so hastily. In response, Nirur tells you that hector is the safest lynch vote, so when hector begins questioning Nirur, you vote him again. Then, after Nirur has already answered hector's question, you jump in and defend him with an answer of your own.

Now what does that look like? Either you're mafia partners with him, or you're scum trying to get on a townie's good side. If it's something else, I'd like you to explain it to me right now. And it better make sense.

KitRougard

[dolores]

I’m going to nightkill you for that roseheart.

Are you good for this? I feel like lynching them removes our ability to pressure players who could actually post.

I'm bored of chasing you. I thought you were a newb trying a weird thing. But you're just weird.

You're only allowed to say things like this when we know what your reads are. I'll be posting a list of mine at the end of this post, you should do the same.

Spoiler: Failbird (click to show/hide)

Because you want me to talk and didn't know I was asleep?

What the fuck is this? You responded to the post. You're not shitposting in your sleep. Do some fucking work, jesus christ.

So it's not possible for me to have woken up within the 7 hours between Fallacys post and mine?

Either you are awake and able to post, or you are unable to post due to being asleep of busy or whatever. If you're going to respond to a post actually do so. Don't write a one liner saying 'yeah nah I wasn't able to be active' if you're not going to then take that opportunity to be active to actually, y'know, be active.
I don't care how bad a job you do or might think you will do. It literally doesn't matter, because if you give it an honest go and try then at least we'll get some insight into what your alignment is and what you're thinking. If you want to keep playing mafia in the future, besides getting much needed experience you'll also get advice from other players based on what you've tried. If you end up doing a good job and find scum directly, that's great. But all I absolutely need from you is enough content that I can judge whether or not you are scum in this very game. If everybody did that I'd know the alignment of all the players in the game, assuming I did a good enough job at reading their posts.
So let's say you're town. If you're not, you should be doing the same thing because you're getting lynched and the best way to not get lynched is to A: be a player that other players want to be in the game and B: look like you're a townie. Both of those things can be accomplished best by posting a lot about what you think or trying to find out more.
So here's the thing right, we're approaching a part of the game where people will start throwing around their lists of reads. That's basically a rank order of players regarding our feelings about them and whether or not they're likely to be scum. You might struggle to make a list of reads. I'm going to ask you to post one anyway, or, if you can't, (because you don't have enough information on some players) ask a relevant question to them.

Failbird: Who are your top two picks here for scum buddies and why?

Quite frankly, as far as I'm concerned it could be anybody right now. Reading people is in no way my specialty, especially not people who I'm encountering for the first time in a game where some players are explicitly meant to work to deceive the others. The only thing I do know is that given some time I'll know at least one person I definitely can or can't trust.

So you're claiming to have an inspect?

Frankly the only people I have any inclination to vote for at this very moment are Dolores and Fallacy but 'because they've voted for me' is easily among the weakest reasons I can think of.

Not necessarily. Why are we voting for you? If you can't see a good reason why we are, press us about it.

Overall, Failbird's contributing a lot more than webadict is.

There's a lot more that I could say about this and especially the rest of this post, but I can't let this part slide.
Is roseheart contributing a lot more than webadict?
As much as we need to lynch the lurkers to get the game moving, we also need to be able to put pressure on people.
Webadict isn't going to start or stop giving a shit because you voted him. Vote for someone who cares about being voted. If you're not going to do that, which is I guess a perfectly valid option (maybe even the right one), vote for roseheart.
The big problem with you voting wuba is it doesn't tell us anything about your alignment. That's bad for you especially, because we're going to run out of inactive players to lynch.

Spoiler: Tomasque (click to show/hide)

I think that your stuff with Nirur is very weak but I don't think there was anything there to begin with.
Anyway, that's more just a lead into:

Tomasque: who is the highest threat to you right now?

Kit. Although I'm seeing suspicious actions in a lot of people, his actions have made me think that he's the most likely to be scum. The explanation is at the bottom of this post.

So you're saying you've got multiple players that you feel are more scummy than others?
I'm presuming this includes Nirur and Kit. Anybody else? Is Webadict scummy or just shitposting? How do you feel about failbird? How do you feel about FoU?

KitRougard

You're uh, reading a lot more into Kit's posts than I am.
Are you really getting any evidence of intent or purpose from these posts? I agree that Kit needs to be lynched because they're not doing much useful and I'd be voting them now if it didn't stop me from pressuring failbird, but that's because I think they haven't engaged with the game yet as opposed to because I necessarily suspect them to be scum.

Where the fuck is IcyTea?
Yeah I said I was going to do this and I kinda need to just to put some things out there:

Spoiler: Reads List (click to show/hide)

roseheart: "hi". I have no indicator as to their alignment or hint that I will get one before they're dead
Failbird105: I've mostly covered why I'm voting for them above, but basically they're continuing to post without generating anything of use
KitRougard: basically the same a failbird, except instead of meta-complaining about being new (which they're also doing, don't get me wrong) they've been harping on about one mechanical piece of information they got. I feel like there are really strong wine cases to make about the mechanical play being either a strong town or scum tell, but I don't give a shit about that when they're actual dayplay is so nonexistent.
FallacyofUrist: I disagree with a lot of his reasoning but that's not why I don't like what he's doing in this game. His posts give commentary and sort of give information about him (helping him to try to pretend to look towny) but he's not actually asking anyone questions or trying to get the game moving, he's just participating.
Icytea: possibly the best play in the game at the start of the game, has since disappeared. I dunno if it's a weekend thing or what, anyway, needs to actually be active.
Tomasque: I don't follow or agree with his reasoning regarding Nirur or Kit, especially since I think there are legitimate reasons to call out Kit. That's my only real complaint, he's not active enough to make many other comments at this stage.
webadict: disgustingly high up on this list for what he's doing. For reference, this is the center-neutral tell position. That means everyone above is kinda scummy, which doesn't make sense unless you consider that over half of them are largely inactive. I'll read him if he starts playing.
Nirur Torir: seems to be trying the most of any other player, which is what really matters. Hasn't done anything super amazing but has done something, which sadly seems to be the golden standard these days.
hector13: next most engaged player after Nirur, except I like the way they're playing. I don't especially think he's town but I don't have literally 0 evidence of that being the case like I do for most people
Dolores

[IcyTea31]

Where the fuck is IcyTea?

Spending a Sunday doing things that are very important but don't allow me the time to make thoughtful posts on a forum. Incidentally, why haven't you interacted with me in a way other than asking after me? Perhaps a sudden armour-piercing question that just couldn't wait could have roused me from my busyness.

Hector13: how high are your hopes of this game seeing actual activity?

How high are your hopes of this game seeing actual activity?

Hector: You're answering a question with a deflection. Answer it for real.

You don't answer a rhetorical question with a non-rhetorical answer, do you? I'm satisfied with Hector's answer to that particular question.

What traits would even be indicative of scum? I would assume they'd be trying to be inoffensive as to draw the least attention to themselves, but then again since only investigative town roles would even know who is and isn't town(and even that potentially isn't foolproof), then it would be a town players best interest to act that way as well.

In Town of Salem, the day game is made much harder by the fact that days last only a couple minutes. Here, when days last days, you have much more time to talk with and read the others (and be read), making it very possible to make an educated guess as to who is town and who is scum. Much has been written about "scumtells", but do note that scum knows those tells as well and to avoid them; it comes down to a poker game of wondering, based on the information available to you, whether or not someone is bluffing.

Well you can’t just leave us hanging like that; what are the numbers you have that make you think the game’s over by D2 if things go poorly?

Or better yet, ignore Hector's rolefishing unless saying roleclaiming is an obvious benefit (like a cop finding scum).

Demanding more information about a vague post ("We're screwed if two town fall, for real, just trust me") is hardly a rolefish. Perhaps you know more about Kit's role than you let on if you know explaining the numbers would be a full claim?

No, if "don't lynch town" is important by his data, then lynching you is the best option.

Lynch All Liars is a perfectly valid voting strategy regardless, and any townie that lies as much as you is playing quite a self-defeating anti-town game.

So you want to blow off D1 for a policy lynch!?

I would echo Hector's statement here.

This isn’t a game in which role distribution is known. What makes you think there’s more than one buddy? How many scum do you think there are?

A game with only SKs would be fucking retarded. That's what makes most people assume there is at least a two-scum team.

Now, as for exact numbers, well...
I know little about the potential roles in this BYOR, so I am playing paranoid and saying that Town loses when it is equal to or less that the number of Evils (Not just Scum/Mafia, but lone wolves like the ToS Serial Killer). We started this round with 10 players. If two Town die, I consider the Town to have lost by my logic.

{6 town, 4 scum} or {6 town, 3 scum, 1 non-killing third party} are the only sets that both fulfill your premises and are winnable (barring crazy crapshoots) for town.

Hector13 has the numbers right! I don't know about the true neutrals, but the Evils are spot on!

Hector's numbers were 3 scum and 1 killing third party. Did he really have the numbers right? Because if he did, then A: there is a fault in your earlier logic, a possible lie; and B: this setup is unwinnable for town unless we lynch that third party today (a crazy crapshoot).

Other players, ordered most-to-least lynchable:
Nirur Torir: I'll go over this below cos it's annoying me and there are posts to complain about
KitRougard: needs to STOP EDITING HIS FUCKING POSTS and edit his signature actually do some work instead of talking about his role's starting information that he can't even post about. Hasn't posted anything of substance. Start asking questions, give some opinions.
FallacyofUrist: never mind, fuck this guy too. I'll post about him below.
webadict: gonna wifom about being a warvet in a game you're not necessarily going to post in? Don't you want to get killed if you aren't actually invested in playing? You're probably thinking to yourself 'wow doll took the bait what a twist' but I'm an investigative role and fffuck softclaiming so I'll claim tomorrow.
I spent a lot of timing deciding whether and where to put a hyphen in that 'fffuck'.
Icytea: do some more work you fucking nerd
hector13: I got asked about this cunt so I'll go over it there

Is this a smokescreen or what? Except for the...interesting...ordering of this list, there's little useful information on it. Well, except for the Day 1 claim. Why are you claiming? I don't see any benefit from it whatsoever at this point of the game.

Webadict is confident enough that he could do anything but he's busy and barely here so I'm not expecting anything crazy from him.
--
Better players (IcyTea, Hector, Toma) who aren't wuba/dol-ores are probably going to play straightlaced D1

Have you been paying attention to wuba and Hector? I wouldn't exactly call their play "straightlaced".

Why don't you ask them some fucking questions instead?
Oh wait, hector is scum so you don't need to do that.
Yeah, nah, shit like this is why I don't like you. What's your read on Roseheart?
Oh wait, you don't have one? Why not ask him a question? Maybe vote so that he has to respond?

Aren't you a bit hypocritical?

That's great and all, but now that your mechanical commentary has been settled, can you engage with the game and go looking for some scum?

Wouldn't a question from your part be a fine way to start that engagement?

Incidentally, I don't re-read my posts until I've dropped them (it makes you look like scum)

Why is not looking like scum a concern to you?

he's not going to give you more under this non-existent pressure.

You're right. Years later and I'm still trying to substitute "badgering and annoying people" in as pressure instead of "asking meaningful questions" and actual analysis. Couldn't figure it out then, but maybe now I can.

Badgering is an alright method of applying pressure. You just have to have a solid argument to press first.

The only time I concoct my own voting formula is when I wind up Evil.

...Are you saying that good play is a scumtell for you?

Anyway, here's some poop emojis.

💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩

Truly, you have the greatest wit of any of us.

The only thing I do know is that given some time I'll know at least one person I definitely can or can't trust.

Who is that person? Engage with them more so it'll take less time for you to read them.

Answering a related question, top 3 scumpicks ..
I'd guess Failbird105 is flailing about, trying to get direction from a more experienced partner who's absent: IcyTea, Toma, or FallacyofUrist.

Hey now, you can't just say that and leave it. What are your cases on me, Toma and FoU?

Is it just me, or are hector and webadict acting the same way?

I'd read that as them not being buddies. Scum usually coordinate to use different strategies to see what works.

I'm not sure why Dolores is acting the way she does. Although I can't deny it's getting results. She's not possible to ignore when acting like that.

You've answered your own question.

if I am a detriment, then what are all those people who don't think I'm a detriment?

That's an unorthodox gambit you're playing. What's your strategy to prove yourself as town when it fails?

Is it stupid to martyr for the cause? For my beliefs?

Yes.

hi

Hi. You may proceed at your leisure.

Tomasque: who is the highest threat to you right now?

Kit. Although I'm seeing suspicious actions in a lot of people, his actions have made me think that he's the most likely to be scum. The explanation is at the bottom of this post.

Does this mean you believe scum is the greatest threat to you, even inexperienced scum such as Kit?

First impressions (too early to call them proper "reads", subject to change as always):

• FallacyofUrist: Slight scum. Insufficient data, but what little there is points towards anti-town.
• hector13: Slight town. Sneaky, trying and failing to refuge in audacity.
• Failbird105: Neutral. Seems to honestly have no idea how to play the day game.
• roseheart: Null. Insufficient data.
• Nirur Torir: Town. Misguided scumhunting, but scumhunting nonetheless.
• KitRougard: Third party. Story about "numbers" doesn't add up. Said story being started before gamestart is a little townish, but both gut and logic don't like it.
• Dolores: Town. Active scumhunting with a couple very questionable plays. Trying to be a town leader.
• Tomasque: Slight scum. Insufficient data, but playing a quick defense and then jumping to a vote right after appearing late is suspicious.
• webadict: Slight town. Sneaky, trying and succeeding to refuge in audacity. Somehow.

Unanswered RVS questions:

By doing nothing. I probably won't even post a whole lot. I really just wanted the game to start. My objective is completed.

How does this strategy prevent this game from dying down before anyone wins?

Well first up that's pretty vague, but secondly I assume it's because you want to get specific information.

If I wanted specific information, wouldn't I ask a more specific question?

FallacyofUrist: Why are you voting for webadict based on others' observations over grilling him to build your own conclusions?
Hector13: The "scummy townie" gambit isn't working for you as well as it could. I recommend switching to a more orthodox strategy.
Failbird105: Browse this wiki. Come up with a strategy and get your day game on.
Roseheart: You like to analyze forum games. Why, in your opinion, is (or isn't) a more talkative player more likely to be town?
Nirur Torir: Let's assume Hector is scum. Who is/are his scumbuddy/scumbuddies?
KitRougard: Are the exact numbers {6 town, 3 scum, 1 non-killing third-party}? If yes, I recommend claiming your alignment before you dig yourself deeper.
Dolores: You promised a more coherent version of this post. You may proceed.
Tomasque: I'd say parroted votes actually point towards Nirur and Kit not being buddies; Nirur would be smart enough to tell Kit to not follow his votes if that were the case. Does a wuba/Nirur/Kit scumteam really seem as likely to you as it would appear from your post?
Webadict: Keep doing what you're doing. I have no idea how, but it's working.