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Author Topic: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (Fall 1965 - Final Design Phase)  (Read 82217 times)

10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Design Phase)
« Reply #195 on: January 09, 2018, 04:27:04 am »

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ME-GXM-61 "Penguin": (3) NUKE9.13, Jilladilla,10ebbor10
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andrea

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Design Phase)
« Reply #196 on: January 09, 2018, 04:38:26 am »

putting spin's vote in votebox
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ME-GXM-61 "Penguin": (3) NUKE9.13, Jilladilla,10ebbor10
--Name Please-- : (1) Maximum spin

Madman198237

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Design Phase)
« Reply #197 on: January 09, 2018, 01:22:13 pm »

Quote from: Votes
ME-GXM-61 "Penguin": (3) NUKE9.13, Jilladilla,10ebbor10
ME-WTV-61 'Mad Santa': (2) Maximum spin, Madman
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We shall make the highest quality of quality quantities of soldiers with quantities of quality.

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Design Phase)
« Reply #198 on: January 14, 2018, 05:49:18 am »

ME-GVM-61 "Penguin": War is such messy business. Why risk the chaos of the front lines, when you can kill people in comfort from a hundred kilometers away?
Enter our new Penguin. The sleek white-and-black body gives the weapon its name. The transistor-based guidance system, powerful warhead options, and long-range engine give it its designation: Guided Variable Missile.
The Penguin is 3.5m long, has a 33cm diameter, weighs in at 500kg, of which the warhead is 125kg. It is moved and launched by a dedicated truck capable of carrying two at a time. Users control the missile with an interface in the truck, using optical sensors to steer it towards its target. Should jamming occur, the onboard transistor computer will endeavour to stay the course.
Thanks to the GOFAST-based fuel, the missile is expected to have a longer range than those found in the outside world- we estimate 100km.
As the name suggests, the warhead is variable- currently the options are ICE or 'conventional' explosives.
Design: ME-GVM-61 "Penguin"
Hard: (3+3)-1 = 5: Average

The ME-GVM-61 Penguin is, despite the insistence of its engineers, considered poorly named by some. It has a distinctive black and white appearance but some of its traits - like the fact that it can fly - tend to clash with the name "Penguin." Yet we've succeeded despite this controversy.
Its specifications largely match what we set out to achieve - 33 cm diameter, 3.5m long. Except for the weight, however - it's roughly 800kg. Stubby but very noticeable wings line the casing; the engineers tried to justify these wings as the secondary reason for the "Penguin" naming but the brass simply didn't buy it. Its payload can be fairly easy fitted in or taken off, and we've color coded the warheads light blue for ICE and orange for HE.

The Penguin is controlled using an integrated television camera transmitted to the launcher, where the operator can see the feed and control the missile. A simple transistor-based system inside the missile was remarkably easy to integrate, given our experience with the MXETE and the progress the world's made since then. Barring any unusual flight patterns (we advise against going straight up) the operator can step away from the computer and the missile should generally stay on a straight course until it runs out of fuel. Usually. The guidance computer isn't perfect and if the missile is jammed while pointed towards its target, it'll likely not hit as accurate as we would like.
Its payload can very roughly lethally freeze or explode a substantial 50m area, with some (largely non-lethal) effects beyond that radius depending on the payload - ICE or HE - used. It has a range of 50 km which, according to what we've seen elsewhere, is actually quite good. We can thank GOFAST for that one.

The method of guidance, range, and payload make it a fairly effective tactical missile, though not an effective precision tool. It's not particularly agile, and its guidance methods make attacking non-distinctive (and even then) precise targets fairly hard. Our commanders in the military tell us it'll largely be used in a way similar to somewhat-more-precise artillery; good for eliminating relatively-slow-moving or stationary tactical targets and softening up very specific areas.


It costs 3 Ore and 3 Oil and is therefore Expensive, but we still have to watch our use of them because each truck only carries two missiles.

Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)

The Revision Phase of 1961 has begun. Please also vote on what to import at the end of the Revision Phase.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 09:39:31 pm by Chiefwaffles »
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You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #199 on: January 14, 2018, 06:39:25 am »

STABIL-ICE

This slight reformulation of ICE allows us to control at which temperatures ICE freezes something. Chemically mostly similar to the original ICE compound, and with identical performance, STABIL-ICE is special in that it is a semi-thermo stable compount. Below certain temperatures (which depend on the exact formulation) it simply does not decay. This allows us to use large quantities of ICE without fearing to overdo it.

The compound is expected to have great results in domestic icecream production, power generation, and of course our jet engines.
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andrea

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #200 on: January 14, 2018, 06:55:27 am »

Improved ICE precooler
Diluted ICE was clever, but bulky. Now we go back to the real deal.

The cooling system now has 4 parts: a cold chamber, a fluid loop and and 2 heat exchangers.

The cold chamber s a simple box with a small quantity of ICE dripping in from ICE tanks. While dropping ICE can't keep a constant temperature, we are confident we can constantly keep this chamber between 0°C and the temperature limits of conventional materials. Inside there is an heat exchanger, drawing heat out of the fluid loop.

The fluid loop is a well insulated pipe with a working fluid that does not freeze at ICE temperatures. Some people go as far as proposing nitrogen , but we are confident that we can regulate the cooling chamber to not require such exotic cryogenic systems, looking more toward industrial coolants.

The hot side of the fluid loop consists of an heat exchanger wrapped around the air intake ensuring an even and rapid cooling of intake air.

While ICE temperature still fluctuates without being stable, now variations in temperature are compensated with variation in the pump speed of the fluid loop, allowing a good thermal regulation of the engine.

Furthermore, the shape of the intake has been modified to provide better performance at slowing down, compressing and therefore heating the air, allowing it to perform better at high speeds, high altitudes or both.




Cold air is dense and increases engine performance, we don't need the large and heavy diluted ICE tanks anymore and the new intake is well suited for high speed/altitude flight.
I am not sure if the airframe can take it, but the engine may be able to achieve supersonic. If not, at least get better performance or range or cheapness, since we got rid of an huge heavy tank AND increased efficiency at the same time.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 11:52:19 am by andrea »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #201 on: January 14, 2018, 07:04:59 am »

That entire assembly is going to outweigh the rest of the engine. Seems way too complex to me.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #202 on: January 14, 2018, 07:37:34 am »

Deep Freeze
Thanks to some guy named "Moore", or possibly "Murphy" (I wasn't paying attention), we've managed to improve our supercomputer by leaps and bounds since whatever year it was we made it in. It still fills an entire floor of our building, but that's only because we weren't using that space for anything else anyway; we can now fit 210 = more than a thousand times as much computer in that space! ICE cooling has really helped improve speed and reduce power consumption, too. Is there anything ICE can't do? Well, yes, technically, "heat things". We'll figure that out eventually, probably. Anyway, we're calling it Deep Freeze, because it's catchy.
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The Just Writer

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #203 on: January 14, 2018, 08:05:09 am »

Improved ICE precooler:1 (The Just Writer)
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #204 on: January 14, 2018, 09:47:39 am »

Hmm. Choices, choices. STABIL-ICE would have wider applications and take up less space, but would be harder, and carries the risk of the cost increasing if we roll poorly.
...
Eh, what is the DUC for if we can't push the boundaries of chemistry just a little bit further? STABIL it is.

Quote from: Votes
Improved ICE Precooler: (1) The Just Writer
STABIL-ICE: (1) NUKE9.13
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Long Live United Forenia!

andrea

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #205 on: January 14, 2018, 10:19:58 am »

Ebbor, it is no more complex than a fridge. It is, in fact, basically a fridge.
I doubt it would increase the weight of the engine that much, let alone outweigh it. Most of the weight of a fridge comes from the required volum for storage and the casing, which we wouldn't need because we are integrating it in the engine.

Anyway, as NUKE points out, STABIL-ICE would have wider applications, although I think the improved precooler is better for specific aeronautic application.

10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #206 on: January 14, 2018, 11:11:33 am »

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Ebbor, it is no more complex than a fridge. It is, in fact, basically a fridge.
I doubt it would increase the weight of the engine that much, let alone outweigh it. Most of the weight of a fridge comes from the required volume for storage and the casing, which we wouldn't need because we are integrating it in the engine.

The problem with the engine currently is that the use of pure ICE results in the slightest variance outright freezing the engine. Now, your solution for that is a an isolated chamber. This chamber needs to have far greater insulation, and far greater thermal inertia, than our engine (otherwise we'd have the same freezing problem all over again).

That alone makes it heavier.

Then, you want to add a closed circuit cryogenic cooling system. That's not simple either.

Oh, and there's an error in your proposal.

Quote
The hot side of the fluid loop consists of an heat exchanger wrapped around the air intake and the turbocompressor, ensuring an even and rapid cooling of intake air. The temperature of intake can be regulated by regulating the fluid loop pumps, without having to mess with the composition of ICE.

There's no turbocompressor. It's a ramjet.

I mean, it could work. It probably would work, given the setting. But my intention was for this engine to be very simple. No compressors, or any excessive moving parts. Just 2 pumps and an air intake. To add an entire cooling system goes against my design philosophy. (Which you're free to do of course, but I disagree).


Quote from: Votes
Improved ICE Precooler: (1) The Just Writer
STABIL-ICE: (2) NUKE9.13, 10ebbor10
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 11:16:44 am by 10ebbor10 »
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andrea

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #207 on: January 14, 2018, 11:20:02 am »

wait, no compressor at all? on a subsonic plane?

we need to sort that engine out, it doesn't belong to the conditions we are using it in.
(of course, I prefer bringing the entire plan to high supersonic than toning down the engine)

anyway, it doesn't necessarily need to have a greater thermal inertia by itself, it is enough if it is purpose built for close temperatures. Not having moving parts, unlike the engine, a little of brittleness is of far less oncern.


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Improved ICE Precooler: (2) The Just Writer, Andrea
STABIL-ICE: (2) NUKE9.13, 10ebbor10

10ebbor10

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #208 on: January 14, 2018, 11:40:13 am »

Quote
wait, no compressor at all? on a subsonic plane?

This is the description.

Quote
The freezing stovepipe is a unique hybrid of a ramjet and rocket engine. Utilizing not only GoFast, but also ICE, it attains fuel efficiency so great it's consider a violation of the laws of physics.

Nonetheless, the principle is very simple. Air enters the a high speed, slamming into the spike inlet. A very precise dripple feed of ICE ensures that the air temperature remains near freezing, despite the tremendous compressive heating. This high density air then flows through to the combustion chamber, where it is heated by a Gofast flame. Heat results in expansion, providing thrust. Unlike conventional ramjets, the fact that Gofast can burn independent of airflow ensures that the engine doesn't have a minimum operating speed.

So, yeah, it's explicitly a Ramjet, which means it has no turbines or other moving parts.

Quote
Not having moving parts, unlike the engine, a little of brittleness is of far less oncern.

You're forgetting the cryogenic coolant loop. That one needs to have a pump to cycle the fluid.
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andrea

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Re: Mad Arms Race - Mereth Design Division (1961 - Revision Phase)
« Reply #209 on: January 14, 2018, 11:46:49 am »

a pump is far smaller than an engine, and has less severe requirements.
That said, I would think it won't need to be cryogenic. The problem with the freezing stovepipe is because we wanted to keep it near the temperature of freezing water. That is not dangerous to engine materials, it is dangerous because going below causes ice crystals to form and damage stuff.

on a separate chamber, we could easily keep a temperature of, say, -15 +- 10°C. Not constant, but we can regulate the pump to compensate, and still within range of conventional materials.
I think I shall reword the proposal to clarify that cryogenic is a worst case and that we aim for less than that.
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