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[Mephansteras]

The moon is currently in Waning Gibbous Phase.

Meph: What does that mean for the moon's phase last night?

Also Waning Gibbous.

[Reverie]

It's a shame about the werewolf thing, I was actually kind of excited.

juicebox:

Reverie: I would certainly be up for a massclaim.

Even after what we've learned about the circumstances of Shake's death? Please elaborate.

Tiruin: That will have to wait until a later post, when I 'm not on my phone and I can actually post a wall of text. BTW I did manage to get one post in Day 1. It's not tge best but at least that's something, right?

No. A single rvs post from the start of the day is virtually nothing. You've been gone a week! The fact that you are such an unknown at this stage scares the shit out of me. I am seconding Tiruin's request for your reads.

Reverie: Assuming there is a non-cult scumteam, who would your top suspects be so far?

How would a non-cultist scumteam alter my reads at all? Right now I am torn between you being scum (through being absent the second half of yesterday, let me explain), and Teneb. Teneb was singled out on the mislynch, so either he voted on behalf of the scumteam to break the tie, or he's not scum and the scumteam curiously decided to sit on their hands. My theory is that the latter would be justified by a profound lack of activity, namely, yours.

[hector13]

To be fair the town allowed that by having 2/3 not voting. It should probably be embarrassing that two votes was enough to lynch someone on D1.

[Reverie]

PFP: I will be honest, after typing that last sentence out I realised how full of holes my logic was here. It made more sense in my head. Still, it's an odd circumstance if a scumteam doesn't get involved, and I do believe that a missing player would be a driving force for that attitude. This is still operating under the assumption that Teneb isn't a baddie in the first place.

[hector13]

Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhere

And what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?

What? When did I say these things? Could fire that last shot at you too, bucko. Excepting this question, anyway...

unvote. It was mostly baseless stuff to see if you would actually slip. Pressure and so on.

So... you say you're looking for me to slip. Am I scum?

If so, why unvote?

If not, who is? Why does your effort stop when I dispute what you say?

[hector13]

EBWOP

Actually if I'm not scum why are you putting the pressure on me?

If I am scum, was my stunning rhetoric enough to change your mind?

[Tiruin]

[...
“Shakerag was, I believe, the one who ate BlackHeartKabal. He was a Ghoul, a sad soul cursed by some black magic to kill and eat others to survive. His death makes us all safer, but there is still the question of who managed to kill such a creature? He himself had his eyes and heart removed. For what reason I could not say. Regardless, I fear we are still all in great danger.”

@_@ woah my cheese.

Ok I didn't know that there were past Templars--searching the Mafia board with 'This board' and 'Templar' only gave a few results -.-
But I *DO* know that that kind of death details were present before. It isn't from werewolves at least, because they use claws (like Dopplegangers from Paranormal), but I'll be checking into this by browsing all them threads :O

The moon is currently in Waning Gibbous Phase.

Meph: What does that mean for the moon's phase last night?

Also Waning Gibbous.

At least we know we're not at the end of the week [/drum&cymbals]
...So not really werewolves proven 2x.
Yeah I'm feeling its a cult kill, because those specific death portions mean a kidnapping and an extraction ._.

hector: How would Shakerag being killed rule out a cult? How do you know the cult has no kills? Further, I see you going on and on about the kill, but not grilling anyone about it. Why would that be?

What? When did I say these things? Could fire that last shot at you too, bucko. Excepting this question, anyway...

I'm having trouble finding where I said things that could be twisted to look like I said that, too. I said I think, given the information at hand, that there's no cult, not that there definitely absolutely 100% isn't one. My mind is open to being changed. PPE: see later.

Also, all we're really doing now is going "well this makes me think that" and nobody is really doing anything. I was throwing in my two cents and pondering what to do with the not particularly useful information I did have, which I proceeded to disseminate to y'all.

NK analysis is a bit hit and miss anyway. Until about an hour ago, I didn't know much about Shake's kill beyond it happened. Could've been town, TP, or scum. We don't want to delve too much into a town kill, while a TP kill is interesting. Scum probably have a kill, otherwise they're going to have much trouble winning, though I haven't looked through the previous supernatural games with a cult yet to see how Meph dealt with conversions and kills.

PPE: in saying that, this was a role in the Semi-Bastard Supernatural:

Hapah - You are a veteran Templar, your skills in hunting down the accursed Cults of the world honed by many battles against the dark forces of the world. You are immune to the seductive charms of the Cults, and cannot be converted by them. In addition, you may either attempt to Kill another player each night or Protect yourself from attack instead.

Seems likely there's a cult then heh.

However, it would seem quite excessive for them to have a convert and a kill. One or t'other, though I guess they could convert a killing role... that would be unpleasant.

Supernatural 8 had a non-converting cult, though. Could be dealing with that again.

Equally so, the Templar role could be a red herring. *shrugs* various games in which there has been a Vampire Hunter with no vampire.

I agree with Rev's conclusion of Shakerag's death being awfully ritualistic. Perhaps the baddies are building a golem, or are attempting to summon a vicious beasty and need various body parts, but that's flavour pondering and not necessarily all that useful.

Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.

...But why is a NK analysis hit and miss? In these kinds of games--you can directly infer that the kill was done by a specific party because Meph has flavors for those. Monster Hunter has mundane weaponry marks for example--sword or spear or halberd or etc. Vampires have blood suckyness. Mafia-versions of Town roles have the same kinds of kill marks (eg Knight = slashyslashy)
And furthermore, HOW did you not match Shakerag's marks on BHK when it explicitly said he ded?

“BlackHeartKabal, or what is left of him, seems to have been eaten. However, we should not mourn him too much. It seems, based on a series of tattoos still visible on his neck that he was a host for a Devil. No doubt here to cause mischief, or worse.”

Other than the NPC High Priest saying stuff (which I don't recall has ever been designated that way before), Ghouls eat people.

PFP because AAAA EXAMS TODAY

[Tiruin]

To be fair the town allowed that by having 2/3 not voting. It should probably be embarrassing that two votes was enough to lynch someone on D1.

o_o
"the town allowed [...]"
...That's some oddly specific wording there Hector.

Also timezones on my part :v but I felt O_o when reading all that. It did give off the indication that someone could quicklynch, till I woke up and saw that vote, and then saw many other people having posted really after that.

It is embarrassing in hindsight--but people were active while that hindsight was being done.

[juicebox]

Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhere

And what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?

Well I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.

However, I'm not voting you because I think you're wrong about there being a cult. I'm voting you because you won't even consider the possibility that there isn't a cult, even though a case can be made to the contrary.

It's a shame about the werewolf thing, I was actually kind of excited.

juicebox:

Reverie: I would certainly be up for a massclaim.

Even after what we've learned about the circumstances of Shake's death? Please elaborate.

I think a massclaim either today or tomorrow could be a good idea. I think it may just provide enough information to tell us exactly who killed Shakerag and what we should next.

Tiruin: That will have to wait until a later post, when I 'm not on my phone and I can actually post a wall of text. BTW I did manage to get one post in Day 1. It's not tge best but at least that's something, right?

No. A single rvs post from the start of the day is virtually nothing. You've been gone a week! The fact that you are such an unknown at this stage scares the shit out of me. I am seconding Tiruin's request for your reads.

That is a valid concern.

Here are my reads so far:

hector13: Leaning town on hector. His disappointment in the town for not voting D1 seems townish to me, and he seems to be trying to help town

TheDarkStar: Null, not enough activity to get a good read

Teneb: My top scumpick. His jumping on the ATH mislynch is already suspicious, and his actions today only deepen my suspicions.

Reverie: Leaning town as well. Seems to be trying to help town

Tiruin: I want to say town, but I'm never totally sure about Tiruin. Null for right now

juicebox: Made with 100% juice


TDS: Can we have your thoughts on everything please?

Tiruin:

Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.

That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?

[Tiruin]

Errr...posting on phone so the snippy difficulty is present.

Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhere

And what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?

Well I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.

However, I'm not voting you because I think you're wrong about there being a cult. I'm voting you because you won't even consider the possibility that there isn't a cult, even though a case can be made to the contrary.


[...]
Tiruin:

Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.

That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?

What...idea of "cult" are you thinking about, juicy ? I doubt youd contradict yourself in the same post but thats an impression Im confusedly having when reading that to Teneb, and then that thing to me.

Also why would there be a why in mafia/cult killing someone o_O
If its a Cha.Cultist, theres the notion of "save dat convert for later!".

Oh and EVERYONE has posted--nobody claimed dibs on Shakerag (or his eyeballs), so I thus assume whoever killed Shakerag (or his eyeballs) is SCUM!

Dun dun duuunn...got my eye on that![/Imcorny]

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
juicebox: Reverie
Teneb: juicebox
TheDarkStar: Tiruin


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

[hector13]

Tiruin

NK analysis is a bit hit and miss anyway. Until about an hour ago, I didn't know much about Shake's kill beyond it happened. Could've been town, TP, or scum. We don't want to delve too much into a town kill, while a TP kill is interesting. Scum probably have a kill, otherwise they're going to have much trouble winning, though I haven't looked through the previous supernatural games with a cult yet to see how Meph dealt with conversions and kills.

PPE: in saying that, this was a role in the Semi-Bastard Supernatural:

Hapah - You are a veteran Templar, your skills in hunting down the accursed Cults of the world honed by many battles against the dark forces of the world. You are immune to the seductive charms of the Cults, and cannot be converted by them. In addition, you may either attempt to Kill another player each night or Protect yourself from attack instead.

Seems likely there's a cult then heh.

However, it would seem quite excessive for them to have a convert and a kill. One or t'other, though I guess they could convert a killing role... that would be unpleasant.

Supernatural 8 had a non-converting cult, though. Could be dealing with that again.

Equally so, the Templar role could be a red herring. *shrugs* various games in which there has been a Vampire Hunter with no vampire.

I agree with Rev's conclusion of Shakerag's death being awfully ritualistic. Perhaps the baddies are building a golem, or are attempting to summon a vicious beasty and need various body parts, but that's flavour pondering and not necessarily all that useful.

Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.

I did mention the most recent Supernatural game had a cult which couldn't convert... so it depends what way he's going.

More on this later.

NK analysis is a bit hit and miss anyway. Until about an hour ago, I didn't know much about Shake's kill beyond it happened. Could've been town, TP, or scum. We don't want to delve too much into a town kill, while a TP kill is interesting. Scum probably have a kill, otherwise they're going to have much trouble winning, though I haven't looked through the previous supernatural games with a cult yet to see how Meph dealt with conversions and kills.

...But why is a NK analysis hit and miss? In these kinds of games--you can directly infer that the kill was done by a specific party because Meph has flavors for those. Monster Hunter has mundane weaponry marks for example--sword or spear or halberd or etc. Vampires have blood suckyness. Mafia-versions of Town roles have the same kinds of kill marks (eg Knight = slashyslashy)
And furthermore, HOW did you not match Shakerag's marks on BHK when it explicitly said he ded?

“BlackHeartKabal, or what is left of him, seems to have been eaten. However, we should not mourn him too much. It seems, based on a series of tattoos still visible on his neck that he was a host for a Devil. No doubt here to cause mischief, or worse.”

Other than the NPC High Priest saying stuff (which I don't recall has ever been designated that way before), Ghouls eat people.

I know Shakerag ate BHK. I'm not sure how you thought I was confused about that...

Anyway, I also have misgivings about you kinda sorta taking what I said about NK analysis being hit or miss out of context. I explained my thoughts regarding NK analysis in the rest of that paragraph.

What you are positing as NK analysis - which I would define as "x player died during the night, who benefits and how?" - is actually flavour analysis. Given we've had a few players agree that the kill appears ritualistic, flavour analysis can be useful in figuring out what we're dealing with in a non-vanilla game like this.

To be fair the town allowed that by having 2/3 not voting. It should probably be embarrassing that two votes was enough to lynch someone on D1.

o_o
"the town allowed [...]"
...That's some oddly specific wording there Hector.

I'd like to know what you mean here before responding to it.


I've been pondering over whether or not to reveal this tidbit, but I think it's probably a good idea for y'all to know there's at least one witch in the game. So far as I can tell, they've always been town-aligned in previous games, but that might just make Meph want to spice things up a bit by makin' 'em bad now.

[hector13]

EBWOP

Part of me not wanting to reveal this is I don't want to distract us too much about talking about cults versus witches too much.

Please don't go into theorycrafting.

"well I think it's a cult because x!" "well I think you're an idiot it must be a coven because y!" doesn't really help us find scum.

[juicebox]

Errr...posting on phone so the snippy difficulty is present.

Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhere

And what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?

Well I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.

However, I'm not voting you because I think you're wrong about there being a cult. I'm voting you because you won't even consider the possibility that there isn't a cult, even though a case can be made to the contrary.


[...]
Tiruin:

Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.

That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?

What...idea of "cult" are you thinking about, juicy ? I doubt youd contradict yourself in the same post but thats an impression Im confusedly having when reading that to Teneb, and then that thing to me.

Also why would there be a why in mafia/cult killing someone o_O
If its a Cha.Cultist, theres the notion of "save dat convert for later!".

I guess the confusion arises because I typed up my response to Teneb before I saw your post about cult having a convert and a kill, but I decided not to change it.

As for me asking why the cultist would kill, it just seems like converting N1 would be the best option for a cultist.

[TheDarkStar]

TDS: Can we have your thoughts on everything please?

Sure. I'll post reads later but here are some responses and comments.

That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?

I'm curious what you think about this. Why does it bother you?

Everyone: thoughts on a mass roleclaim?

I'd be fine with it, I guess. Do you think it's scummy for someone to not be okay with it?

MMM :I I feel too cautious.
TheDarkStar

Maybe Shakerag was a serial killer but BHK was one of the two(?) scum on a team. That assumes that there even is a scumteam, but it would make sense with ATH's flip - it kinda makes sense for a Templar to fight demons. I see this as more likely than having a two-man scumteam left because that would mean that almost half the starting players were scum. (we know there isn't a three-man scum  team still out there because otherwise the game would be over by now, barring vigilantes/more 3Ps). It's also possible that we started with three mutually opposed third parties and there's one left. Either way, we probably have one scum left.

One of the Twoscum?
How is there not a scumteam? (I'm assuming you mean Mafia team)

And considering the flips, what is your take of the surviving set of probably roles? Not to give off the impression of fishing--as I'm also thinking that roleclaiming would be a good idea either today or tomorrow given how...6/9 may feel like LYLO if at least 2 are non-town/malevolent to town, but to share my own ideas, I think this is a delicately power heavy game.
Like the example of the factional NK of Mafia/Cult (Yes cult had that, see my link. I captured/stabbed people, and can only do that or Charismatically-convert ._.; I mean I'm assuming the same here but!), in which today would've had at least 2 deaths.
Problem is the Ghoul killed the Devil; NO details are to the Ghoul-death (waiting on you Meph)
And yeah I said there was an RNG bot, but there seems to be some structured reasoning to what you said there--and I'm following it up with my own.

Since we had two people flip what seemed to be unaligned evil third parties, I was assuming that we had at most 1 more scum, since it seems unlikely that almost half the starting players were scum. Hence there's either no scumteam and there's just one evil 3P left or one of the dead players is part of a two-man scumteam. I guess there could still be a scumteam but I'd be surprised.

re: roles: probably 1-2 investigative, since that's normal. At least one evil killing role. At least one role that either protects other people or is normally unkillable, given the ghoul flip. Possibly more? And that's 3-5 of the remaining roles. There's... probably not another vig, since we already had one die. If there was anything really esoteric we'd probably have heard about it by now. All in all, though, there's not much to go off of here and the same logic would apply to most role-heay games with 3/9 people dead. Why do you want to know?

Do you think it's LYLO? Do you think it's MYLO (which it is if there are still two scum left)?

I've been pondering over whether or not to reveal this tidbit, but I think it's probably a good idea for y'all to know there's at least one witch in the game. So far as I can tell, they've always been town-aligned in previous games, but that might just make Meph want to spice things up a bit by makin' 'em bad now.

In previous games there have always been at least two witches who share a quickchat. Do you think that's true for this game too?