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Glorious Arstotzka

17 (16%)

Glorious Moskurg

13 (12.3%)

Ingloriously Didn't Play

76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106

[RAM]

Doubtful. Modern CIWS uses radar, computer fire-control, and 20mm Vulcan miniguns to shoot down missiles, and it's not 100% effective.

Bear in mind that electronics miniaturisation is terrible right now. This would naturally affect the somewhat small missiles much more than the quite large naval wessels. Compared to modern missiles, we have larger, more predictable, and likely slower targets with fewer viable approaches. Also bear in mind that their missiles are individually very expensive. They don't need to be perfectly reliable in order to win. And then bear in mind that their missiles can hit agile jet-fighters in W.W.II while such missiles were somewhat terrible as late as Vietnam's communist movement, so technology successes are not entirely predictable. We could proably build computers in warships without too much trouble, they would just be enormous, but on a dedicated missile-screen vessel... We do have radar. Dakka can be achieved through quantity... We could build a giant tank with a purpose-built trajectory-calculating computer trailer and an array of half-a-dozen Garlics. It wouldn't be perfect, but there is no compelling reason to believe it to be flat-out impossible and it would have all of the systems that you listed and be against comparatively primitive targets.

the Saltseeker only uses the rockets for its initial launch and turbine engine thereafter
close to your current state-of-the-art
the Sarukh, might suffer in terms of accuracy from just having a more-powerful propellant crammed in.

Some thoughts, perhaps some convenient rocket-scientist(or wannabe) could confirm/elaborate/correct/dismiss any of these?
Saltseeker: Less propellant required for the initial stage would result in more fuel for the turbines?
Art: The revision seems to be intended to improve what our "state-of-the-art" currently is. I suppose that it could be viewed as a retroactive increase in rocketry experience, with no associated design...
Saruhk: More range means less accuracy, but potentially they could let out some fuel to reduce the range? Or the design could be viewed as increasing the payload or making(and especially moving) more, smaller missiles with individually less space spent upon fuel instead?

[Happerry]

PAROI Rocket Development Initiative (4): Powder Miner, voidslayer, eS, ConscriptFive
UF-MCV-45 "Flails of Doom!" (3): Kashhyk, NAV, Qassius
UF-ARM-45 'Wild Weasel' (0):
UF-ALARM-45 (0):
UF-GARM-45 "Garm" (8): Kot, NUKE9.13, Parsely, Madman, Zanzetkuken, Wizgrot, Cnidaros, Happerry

Welp, guess it's time to switch.

[Madman198237]

Well the rocket booster stage is only meant to reach a given speed (so the jets are most effective and the missile is actually capable of sustaining flight on their thrust), so even a 10x increase in rocket power probably won't really have a meaningful effect on maximum range for the Saltseeker.

Any of the other "could be viewed as" suggestions in your post, RAM, need their own specific mention (or more likely specific revision)

[Kot]

Doubtful. Modern CIWS uses radar, computer fire-control, and 20mm Vulcan miniguns to shoot down missiles, and it's not 100% effective.

Bear in mind that electronics miniaturisation is terrible right now. This would naturally affect the somewhat small missiles much more than the quite large naval wessels. Compared to modern missiles, we have larger, more predictable, and likely slower targets with fewer viable approaches. Also bear in mind that their missiles are individually very expensive. They don't need to be perfectly reliable in order to win. And then bear in mind that their missiles can hit agile jet-fighters in W.W.II while such missiles were somewhat terrible as late as Vietnam's communist movement, so technology successes are not entirely predictable. We could proably build computers in warships without too much trouble, they would just be enormous, but on a dedicated missile-screen vessel... We do have radar. Dakka can be achieved through quantity... We could build a giant tank with a purpose-built trajectory-calculating computer trailer and an array of half-a-dozen Garlics. It wouldn't be perfect, but there is no compelling reason to believe it to be flat-out impossible and it would have all of the systems that you listed and be against comparatively primitive targets.

Shilka is capable of shooting down jets and it's computers are still vacuum tubes, IIRC. We just rolled shit, otherwise it would be perfectly capable of that.

[ConscriptFive]

PAROI Rocket Development Initiative (3): Powder Miner, voidslayer, eS
UF-MCV-45 "Flails of Doom!" (3): Kashhyk, NAV, Qassius
UF-ARM-45 'Wild Weasel' (0):
UF-ALARM-45 (0):
UF-GARM-45 "Garm" (9): Kot, NUKE9.13, Parsely, Madman, Zanzetkuken, Wizgrot, Cnidaros, Happerry, ConscriptFive

Ouch, who knew rocket science would be so hard?

[Parsely]

Shilka is capable of shooting down jets and it's computers are still vacuum tubes, IIRC. We just rolled shit, otherwise it would be perfectly capable of that.

60s CRT technology, not 40s CRT technology. That's like reasoning that because microprocessors were around in the 70s that you could build an AI that could beat top players at League of Legends in the 70s. That said, if at any point we make man portable guided missiles or proliferate radars to our smaller fighters then we should be able to make radars and computers small enough to fit in tanks.

[andrea]

Both the things you listed are things Cannala has already achieved, iwthout too much hassle. It is clearly doable.

[Kot]

Both Shilka and Yenisei were finished and undergoing tests in 1960, so it's more like 1950s tech. CRT (those are the things that make up computer screens, not actual "computer" vacuum tubes) were in fact used, IIRC, for radar screens, but it's not like CRTs weren't around in 1950s or even 1940s. Considering the absolute insanity of current technology level of ICAR, I think arguments that "b-b-but muh 1960s" aren't exactly validated.
It should be also considered that Shilka dealt with 1960s and 1970s planes, and is still used to some degree of success, and we are dealing with subsonic jets and helicopters, so it doesn't have to be as good as 1960s one. I staunchly believe that we could make proper assisted guidance for Garlic, but I'm not sure if we should sink even more actions into that.
I also think it would be somewhat effective for taking down enemy ASM provided they can be spotted by radar - considering Cannalan ASM apparently fucking eat waves, that seems to be a problem.

[Sensei]

"General Anti-Radiation Missile" is a guidance package that can be applied to missiles such as "Saltseeker", "Noose" and "Piracy Warning". It's essentially half of radar guidance, since it only contains passive detection systems. It uses those to home onto Cannalan radar frequencies (hopefully different than ours, possibly also have it changeable in case they try to revise their radar) or possibly even radio frequencies in attempt to destroy them, or at least force enemy to turn off their radar, which will significantly lower their combat capabilities. The missile is intended to be air-launched, though it might as well be launched from the ground or ships.

Hard: 2
UF-GARM-45 "Garm": The Garm GARM is an ARM, an anti-radiation missile. Based on the Saltseeker, it follows Cannalan Viking Radar signals instead of radio signals emitted by itself, therefore steering towards a Cannalan radar source (it can also be tuned to any frequency in a wide range). Having only an amplitude of the signal to work with and no doppler effect like a normal radar, it cannot judge its distance to a target the way the Saltseeker can, requiring it to fly at an altitude which will hit a ship for its entire flight path. With the already somewhat imprecise altimeter used, this considerably increases the incidence of the missile dashing itself against the waves and that sort of thing. Cost equal to Saltseeker.

[Kot]

Code: [Select]

!roll 1d6
@╲⎝⧹╯𝕋𝕙𝕖 𝕂𝕠𝕥𝕫𝕒𝕣╰⧸⎠╱ rolled 6.That's what happened I swear.

requiring it to fly at an altitude which will hit a ship for its entire flight path

Is it still useable against ground-based radars? Like, the ones Cannalans have right now or theoretical future SAM radar or something?

To deal with altitude problems we could just toss bomb the missile into enemy territory. The guidance should make it fall on enemy head right and proper, and we have a plane that's literally designed to do something like that now. Low altitude approach to avoid radar, sudden nose up, relase missile, it now goes on a ballistic course and drops on enemy with guidance. Forenians are supposed to be plane aces, we should figure something like that out without revision. :V

[NAV]

() Tereshkova Jungle:
(1) Plains Island: NAV
() Titan:
(1) Vlanlados Antarctic Colony: NAV

[Powder Miner]

(1) Tereshkova Jungle: Powder Miner
(2) Plains Island: NAV, Powder Miner
() Titan:
(1) Vlanlados Antarctic Colony: NAV

[/quote]

[Madman198237]

Wasn't that thing supposed to be an air-launched ARM, NOT an ASM?

[RAM]

Wasn't that thing supposed to be an air-launched ARM, NOT an ASM?

I assume that because it rolled badly, it only worked for Saltseeking and missed the other missiles. But we should still be able to air-launch Garm over land targets and high seas just as we can with the old Salts.
But it is safe to assume that Saltseekers would be the easiest to convert.

It should include The Death Ball, just for its meme potential.

If it turns out to be effective, maybe we can use them to clear some minefields.  Not like they won't be able to take some hits, after all.

Can we put balling Death to mines into a thing? This would be similar to calling old technology into use, right?

[NAV]

(1) Tereshkova Jungle: Powder Miner
(2) Plains Island: NAV, Powder Miner
() Titan:
(1) Vlanlados Antarctic Colony: NAV
(1) Attempt to use The Death Balls for mine clearing: NAV

Using Death Balls to clear paths in minefields might actually work.