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Poll

Which team did you play in the last game?

Glorious Arstotzka
- 17 (16%)
Glorious Moskurg
- 13 (12.3%)
Ingloriously Didn't Play
- 76 (71.7%)

Total Members Voted: 106


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Author Topic: Intercontinental Arms Race: Finale  (Read 602942 times)

Azzuro

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Summer 1938 (Battle Phase)
« Reply #1530 on: May 14, 2017, 03:02:58 am »

Neither of them should be a military challenge, but they will still take two turns to conquer and count as one of the fronts on which you can attack during your turn. You might also gain access to their resources if you join the relevant international alliance later, but this will take longer than just annexing them.
If Cominterm would get us a free territory, then I can't really argue against that, unless my brief moment of lucidity passes... If we get confirmation on that, then I guess someone can changemy voteto cominterm if they care to.

P.S. Has it really been 300 posts since the last turn?

We will gain the resources, but this will take longer than just annexing. However, having two extra chances to advance (one front advantage over the two turns needed to conquer an island) is nothing to sneeze at, considering that may turn the tide in the centre where the resources are.

If we annex and Cannala diplo-vassalises, they will be able to launch twice the attacks that we can. Not to mention that we'll also have to spend a design/revision on more TC.
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Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1531 on: May 14, 2017, 03:04:57 am »

We need to have the capabilities to launch the attacks. So we'd likely make as much progress taking the rear island as we would taking the tundra/archipelago in hose two turns anyway.
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Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

Powder Miner

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1532 on: May 14, 2017, 03:05:43 am »

Negative from our perspective, and that's subjective. And it's the 'Good guys' that write history because they're left standing.
I mean... when you're talking about the Holocaust and the genocide of millions and millions of people as well as the attempted conquest of Europe, there really isn't that much room for debate.
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Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1533 on: May 14, 2017, 03:06:51 am »

The problem is at the time, that sort of thing was seen as acceptable (Compared to today anyway). And we do have to take that into account ICly.
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Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

Powder Miner

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1534 on: May 14, 2017, 03:08:41 am »

The small-scale eugenics programs were acceptable, unfortunately. But the Holocaust was on a whole other level -- Eisenhower himself was so horrified when he rolled through the camps that he did his best to make sure it couldn't be denied Japan-style afer the fact.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 03:10:24 am by Powder Miner »
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Azzuro

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1535 on: May 14, 2017, 03:09:46 am »

The problem is at the time, that sort of thing was seen as acceptable (Compared to today anyway). And we do have to take that into account ICly.

You will have to provide a citation for that, because while 'passive' eugenics (disallowing the disabled from having children) was accepted, I'm pretty sure 'active' eugenics (as in exterminating an entire people for being 'genetically inferior') was not.
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Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1536 on: May 14, 2017, 03:10:18 am »

@Powder: Yeah, but until they rolled into those camps, no-one really knew about them outside of the SS.
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Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

Powder Miner

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1537 on: May 14, 2017, 03:10:58 am »

We've already broken the everloving flying fuck out of the future knowledge barrier, I'm afraid, haha.
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andrea

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1538 on: May 14, 2017, 03:18:14 am »

A final(maybe) argument for the axis:

VON BRAUN!

WUNDERWAFFE!

Azzuro

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1539 on: May 14, 2017, 03:28:45 am »

Argument for Allies voters:

You are gambling that Cannala will not pick Allies, which is really objectively is in their best interest to do given that their stuff is Good But Expensive, which an expense credit helps, and that the other island on their side is Allies as well. If Cannala picks Allies, we will lose, and if they immediately use the expense credit, that loss will translate into territorial loss for us which we can't match until the next turn. That may allow them to secure the Tundra and Archipelago by getting footholds on Plains and Mountains, giving them a resource advantage.

Argument for Axis voters:

Don't be the bad guys. Even for wunderwaffes.

In conclusion, VOTE COMINTERN. For more rockets and epic national anthems!
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Taricus

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1540 on: May 14, 2017, 03:31:12 am »

I'd rather be bad than worst, thank you :P
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Quote from: evictedSaint
We sided with the holocaust for a fucking +1 roll

andrea

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1541 on: May 14, 2017, 03:35:46 am »

Comintern was quite bad as well, yes.

In terms of bonuses, it is still better than allies, so it would be my second pick.

in terms of siding with bad guys... eg. Finland did, and they are not considered bad guys. Comintern isn't better anyway.

Azzuro

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1542 on: May 14, 2017, 03:51:05 am »

I will concede that the Comintern did do their fair share of atrocities and war crimes, but not on the level of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, and the ambitions thereof.

Anway, actual argument for Axis voters:

While the Research Credit is useful, I would argue that the Espionage Credit is more useful if we use it to steal proven-successful enemy designs. Don't forget, there's still the slight chance that we can roll [1,1] on a Research credit, while there's no way an espionage credit won't do what's stated on the tin.

Cannala delenda est. Vote Comintern!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 03:53:33 am by Azzuro »
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andrea

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1543 on: May 14, 2017, 03:58:35 am »

Do we have any reason to believe that espionage actions can't fail? It would be extremely powerful if it was totally failure proof. But I don't believe it is.

Azzuro

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Re: Intercontinental Arms Race: Autumn 1939 (Strategy Phase)
« Reply #1544 on: May 14, 2017, 04:04:18 am »

Do we have any reason to believe that espionage actions can't fail? It would be extremely powerful if it was totally failure proof. But I don't believe it is.

Given that they are not stated to be subject to rolls in the OP, I'm inclined to believe they aren't. Expense credits are similarly impossible to fail, for that matter.
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