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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4237304 times)

Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50280 on: January 09, 2023, 06:01:54 am »

... You might want to be careful with acronyms, since people don't HAVE to look them up, and might just stop listening.

I kinda wish people would stop thinking CPS can do anything. ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPS

 :P
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EuchreJack

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50281 on: January 09, 2023, 05:20:03 pm »

... You might want to be careful with acronyms, since people don't HAVE to look them up, and might just stop listening.

I kinda wish people would stop thinking CPS can do anything. ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPS

 :P

Good point.


How polite would you be after the tenth time hearing the same question?

Depends if it is the same person asking it 10 times, or 10 different people asking it.
There is a thing called being uninformed. And on this topic, there are a whole lot of the latter still waiting to be enlightenend on the subject.

And even though it might become annoying having to explain the same thing a hundred times, my grandma used to say "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".
Also Misinformed, especially on this topic.
My thanks to Vector, et al for actively fighting the misinformation.

Rolan7

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50282 on: January 09, 2023, 06:54:30 pm »

Aww that's honestly a relief.  People made some *really* good posts (in my biased opinion), and I was hoping they were appreciated.

I was feeling kinda cynical about it.  Those two questions do get asked a LOT, often/usually by people who are literally trying to waste time and sow suspicion.  It's a pernicious campaign to exhaust and misinform, and it's contagious. 

Perhaps the most frustrating thing is it forces people to budget their time towards the honest interlocutors.  That's the goal of the dishonest scum running this hate campaign.  They KNOW their information is wrong, but they will say ANYTHING to demonize what they see as "perversion".  It's an anti-information campaign designed to obfuscate a fairly straightforward issue, and it ensnares people who quite reasonably fall for the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.  Good people, misled by a huge and INCREDIBLY well-funded campaign designed to... "end" trans people.

As a friend said about this: "we can effort post but they can make a billion lazy posts all the time".  At least this once, maybe truth shone through a bit.

Edit:  Matt Walsh on Joe Rogan overestimated the number of people on puberty blockers in some context by a factor of a thousand.  Even Joe Rogan fact-checked him that it was close to a thousand, and M W walked back from millions to "probabably hundreds of thousands", despite being told the exact number was ninehundred-some.  No integrity, pure zealots with a terrifying goal.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 06:58:20 pm by Rolan7 »
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50283 on: January 09, 2023, 08:13:41 pm »

Just to answer the hypothetical of someone being forcibly transitioned by their parents as an infant, there is actually a precedent for this. Quite a few really, though I don't have concrete numbers.

For one specific incident we can look at the story of David Reimer.

There's a lot of nasty stuff in the story, but the cliffnotes version is that due to a botched circumcision at birth, the doctors surgically altered him to present as female, and he was then raised as a girl, given estrogen during puberty and so on. I get the impression this was standard practice at the time if the doctor's accidentally chopped a baby's penis off. He was told about these circumstances and surgically and hormonally transitioned back to male at the age of fourteen.

As for how things were going in his brain during all this? Hard to say, the doctor, who saw this as a chance to determine if gender was learned or innate, studying him and his twin brother through the whole thing was far from good at his job, and was acting with little to no proper oversight, and essentially molested the two boys. His study claimed David was identifying as a girl, but his judgement was suspect at best. There's probably little to actually learn from the case other than that children aren't lab rats.

David and his brother both eventually committed suicide at different times and in different ways. Not the only case of this sort of thing happening, but the one that I can most easily recall and find stuff about.


More broadly, 'corrective' surgical intervention on the genitals of newborns wasn't exactly an uncommon surgical practice in the recent past, fortunately a lot less common now to my knowledge. Children born with genitalia that didn't match their genes, who had ambiguous genitalia or who were otherwise abnormal in that regard were usually surgically altered according to what was most convenient to do with what genitalia they had and given hormones to make them externally present as their assigned gender. Micropenises turned into vaginas, penis/vagina combinations turned into whichever it already most resembled, that sort of thing. Not super clear on the specifics tbh, I just know it was done with the good but misguided intentions to allow the child to live a 'normal' life.

It was part of the 'gender is entirely learned' school of psychology. Much like the studies that wanted to determine if 'being human' was learned or innate it was filled with really sketchy practices, and gleaned very little actual information due to poor methodology and low sample sizes. The theory went that if you raised a boy as a girl, they would be a girl, no internal biology would be prodding them and saying 'but we're a boy.' Applied in reverse as well.

It was a very simple theory, and a very simple view of gender. Like it was an on/off switch. Two options, no sliding scales, no nuance. Simple, easy, convenient. Lazy really.


I don't know if David Reimer suspected something was off before he was told about the whole 'whoops, we cut your dick off as a baby,' thing and transitioned, but I imagine on some level he must have. In theory a modern Reimer might just identify as a transman even before being told he was more accurately amab. There might be studies on intersex and reassigned at birth people that could shed some light on that, and they might be informative to some extent about trans people.


Fun fact: As I recall I first learned about the whole surgically altering babies genitals things from a Ripley's Believe it or Not! book my brother and I had as kids, which had a page about an intersex person who had transitioned to the opposite gender from the one they were assigned at birth as an adult. Might be misremembering, but it was one of many, many things I learned about as a kid that gave me a dim view on the medical practices of the recent past.
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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50284 on: January 12, 2023, 02:16:50 pm »

So to route this back to AmeriPol, I'm surprised I don't see any commentary on this new classified documents thing yet.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50285 on: January 12, 2023, 02:22:40 pm »

Biden is a silly billy, allowing Republicans to equate Trump taking hundreds of documents with whatever Biden was doing with them.

I don’t think the two situations are directly comparable, but when does that matter.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50286 on: January 12, 2023, 02:36:22 pm »

No, he's doing exactly what he should be doing. Handling it completely through the proper channels and not mentioning it. Three months from now this will be nothing more than one more talking point that is as likely to underscore his professionalism as it is to get people to side against him. The hardline GOP base won't care, but the talking points get a lot of distribution - and ranting about "Biden did it too" isn't going to be that strong an argument for most - especially when anybody who looks into it will find that there was no coverup, that Biden's own people reported the fuckup, and it was handled without any interference from the White House. If he did anything else, he'd be giving the frothing Republican pundits meat to hang a case on.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50287 on: January 12, 2023, 03:11:52 pm »

At this point it's hard to equate the two beyond the very minimum base line - negligence, possibly worse, resulting in classified documents left behind. The facts beyond that point are currently a lot more charitable to Biden than Trump, seeing as (as far as we know right now) the Biden folks immediately complied and followed up, and the documents are (as far as we know right now) relatively minor. Whereas for Trump there was massive amounts, some nuclear secret(s), and active resistance, obfuscation, and other fun stuff going on.

As I believe I mentioned during the Trump discussion, overclassification is very much a thing and applies to both of them - but for Trump we know at least some of the documents were truly serious, whereas for Biden we don't know that yet.

Now I put all these qualifiers in because while the events were largely months ago, we obviously still don't know the full story. So I'm waiting and seeing how the story develops.

Everything else aside, the timing of the finding and the drama surrounding Trump's classification absolutely paints the Biden administration as at least a little hypocritical, but... that shouldn't be too surprising, unfortunately.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50288 on: January 12, 2023, 03:46:41 pm »

seeing as (as far as we know right now) the Biden folks immediately complied and followed up

You're missing one extremely important point. The National Archives never sent out a request for the Biden documents. The absence wasn't noticed. The whole thing got started when Biden's people found them, went "oh, crap!", and immediately reported it. It wasn't a case of "immediate compliance", because it didn't go far enough to require compliance.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50289 on: January 12, 2023, 04:00:23 pm »

I was waiting to hear if there was any actual meat in the sausage (or even offal and bulked up with filler, like we know some unfortunate sausages are full of). But, if there is any politically motivated action involved, it would be that the timing of the discovery probably encouraged the very justifiable decision by everyone concerned not to release any information about it in the run up to voting-season. Which is just common-sense. I mean, who would release provisionally non-news that nevertheless would be disproportionately siezed upon as something that it isn't even?
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Dostoevsky

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50290 on: January 12, 2023, 04:28:09 pm »

You're missing one extremely important point. The National Archives never sent out a request for the Biden documents. The absence wasn't noticed. The whole thing got started when Biden's people found them, went "oh, crap!", and immediately reported it. It wasn't a case of "immediate compliance", because it didn't go far enough to require compliance.

Good point, though for me the main question is what all was negligently left.
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MorleyDev

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50291 on: January 12, 2023, 05:23:21 pm »

"Government official finds classified document during office clean out, hands back in immediately" wouldn't even be in the news normally, I can confidently state it happens with more frequency than they'd like to admit.

"Former government official deliberately keeps and hides classified documents and refuses to hand them back in when asked, resulting in FBI raid" is not so common...
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50292 on: January 12, 2023, 07:10:34 pm »

OLD MAN FORGETS SOMETHING
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Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50293 on: January 20, 2023, 06:10:30 am »

Look at this dumb corrupt bullshit

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/01/19/wyoming-bans-electric-cars-in-dumb-performative-oil-industry-ass-kissing/

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Remember all those years (decades now) I've complained about money in politics? This is another example why. I guess Wyoming's leaders think it is just too shitty of a state to adapt to changing conditions. I vehemently disagree with their assessment. Have fun not having cars in 20 years if the awful leadership displayed here isn't curtailed by vote. Ever seen the cars in Cuba?

I say, Detroit, that if they legislate against the cars you make do not accomodate Wyoming. You certainly did that with California, a far wealthier and profitable state, when they mandated electic vehicles must be on their market in decades past. Now that production capital is being changed in the opposite direction, turnabout is fair play in this instance. If this continues down this path, they can do some startups with Wyoming's great coffers of wealth and make Wyomobiles if they like to have vehicles, or import some old ass Toyotas. Concessions to this goofballery is not in the industry's interest.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 06:21:01 am by Duuvian »
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martinuzz

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #50294 on: January 20, 2023, 06:29:19 am »

The federel court in Florida has sentenced Donald Trump to paying a million dollars in compensation to Hillary Clinton and her campaign team, for falsely accusing her of manipulating the elections, and for abusing the justice system for political gain, thereby undermining the rule of law.
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