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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 4221758 times)

wierd

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36450 on: April 25, 2020, 11:20:47 pm »

Demand higher (not lower) standards from the laity.


Congratulations everyone, this is what happens when you make the standards so low that everyone passes while asleep in class, and after failing to learn to read.


But then you would have kids that retake classes over and over and over again, and it would require a substantial overhaul of how we do education funding.


So, given the starting point we are at, it "will never happen(tm)."


Enjoy the idiocracy America. :P



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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36451 on: April 26, 2020, 09:48:05 am »

Some of that stuff does need to be taken with a grain of salt, however.

In your first article, it just says that they redefined "proficient" so that the existing kids in school would meet the funding requirements for the federal No Child Left Behind Act. Now, the act is clearly a badly conceived law, but nowhere in (the first) article does it say any about actual proficiency. This is just a re-branding of the grades for funding purposes and is completely orthogonal to actual education issues.

For the second article, it says kids read notably slower than 50 years ago. However, I don't think the school system has the first thing to do with that. Kids are just exposed to a different array of media in their day to day lives now than 50 years ago. They're measuring linear reading speed, the ability to churn through a text. They thought it was bad that the kids eyes stopped (fixation) on specific words more often. But, modern media that kids consume is now largely interactive. You read, you engage, you make decisions. That's going to lead to a much more start-stop style of reading. So, it's not a surprise that a generation of kids grown up on interactive media have more of a problem when you put them in a passive reading context compared to kids from an era when all media was passive media.

The fact is, kids are engaging with more media than ever, just different media. The second article paints too much of a doom and gloom scenario at the end based on this data-point that these kids will all face an existential crisis because their reading rate is slow. It's probably hyperbole. It's the same as the claims that watching TV would turn the nation into a species of illiterate troglodytes. Everywhere has TV, that didn't happen. Now, the blame is the internet making kids illiterate, and the evidence is that they're not as quick with dealing with obsolete forms of media as the people who grew up when those media were dominant.

Also, in the study it mentions that 50 years ago they filmed the kids. Now, they measure reading speed with "high tech googles". How do they think wearing goggles isn't going to fuck with kids proficiency? "just read like you normally do. Ignore the robo-goggles". Changing the system by which they're doing the measurements, in an extremely intrusive way renders any comparison moot.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 10:04:24 am by Reelya »
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36452 on: April 26, 2020, 10:21:14 am »

I know it was like 10 years ago, but I don't remember Obama's belated endorsement of Biden being discussed here.

I just watched it, and it's... eughh...

For what seems to be a very focused attempt at reconciling Sanders supporters to Biden, it seems to have widely missed the mark due to him underestimating the division while overestimating his personal credibility with that group. My immediate feeling while it's fresh is that I don't miss life pre-2016 as much as I probably ought to.

Obama and Sanders both seem to have been forced into their endorsements, and neither seem happy about it. I can imagine it was especially difficult for former-president Obama to have to, as a black man, have to endorse someone who has never hid his racism. It's bad enough that he had to pick a racist old white man as his vice president in order to get elected (because those are votes from people who matter, and who donate), but having to pretend to support his shitty policies can't have felt good.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36453 on: April 26, 2020, 10:58:21 am »

What? Who forces them to do so? Can;t they just not endorse anyone?
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36454 on: April 26, 2020, 12:03:47 pm »

What? Who forces them to do so? Can;t they just not endorse anyone?

D'you want another 4 years of Donald Trump telling experts to test the effects of injecting the sun/disinfectant?
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36455 on: April 26, 2020, 12:11:07 pm »

What? Who forces them to do so? Can;t they just not endorse anyone?

D'you want another 4 years of Donald Trump telling experts to test the effects of injecting the sun/disinfectant?
NOPE
It’s unfortunate that so many good candidates didn’t make it because branding

Policies should be why people vote, not just name recognition, this is what happens when people don’t pay attention to what politicians are doing
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36456 on: April 26, 2020, 12:12:23 pm »

What? Who forces them to do so? Can;t they just not endorse anyone?

D'you want another 4 years of Donald Trump telling experts to test the effects of injecting the sun/disinfectant?

Yeah, they set it up so our choices are Donald Trump, or another guy who is only worse in some ways, and better in others. Considering their goal is to recreate the fertile soil for Trump-style authoritarianism that we saw during the Obama administration, the populace has already lost to the ruling class, and needs to start planning for that.

We take another 4 very bad years followed by an unknown (where we have hopefully learned our lessons, but probably haven't), or another 12-16 very bad years followed by the same unknown. Hopefully during that time, we can come together with a better governance. I doubt that will happen during our lifetimes though, as we're living through the greatest failure of our government, and people still want to vote for one of two people who will both make it worse.
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36457 on: April 26, 2020, 12:18:46 pm »

What? Who forces them to do so? Can;t they just not endorse anyone?

D'you want another 4 years of Donald Trump telling experts to test the effects of injecting the sun/disinfectant?

Yeah, they set it up so our choices are Donald Trump, or another guy who is only worse in some ways, and better in others. Considering their goal is to recreate the fertile soil for Trump-style authoritarianism that we saw during the Obama administration, the populace has already lost to the ruling class, and needs to start planning for that.

We take another 4 very bad years followed by an unknown (where we have hopefully learned our lessons, but probably haven't), or another 12-16 very bad years followed by the same unknown. Hopefully during that time, we can come together with a better governance. I doubt that will happen during our lifetimes though, as we're living through the greatest failure of our government, and people still want to vote for one of two people who will both make it worse.

People don't have a choice but to vote for these two people. They just think the person they vote for is less bad than the person the other people vote for.

The system is busted.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36458 on: April 26, 2020, 12:53:48 pm »

What? Who forces them to do so? Can;t they just not endorse anyone?

D'you want another 4 years of Donald Trump telling experts to test the effects of injecting the sun/disinfectant?

Yeah, they set it up so our choices are Donald Trump, or another guy who is only worse in some ways, and better in others. Considering their goal is to recreate the fertile soil for Trump-style authoritarianism that we saw during the Obama administration, the populace has already lost to the ruling class, and needs to start planning for that.

We take another 4 very bad years followed by an unknown (where we have hopefully learned our lessons, but probably haven't), or another 12-16 very bad years followed by the same unknown. Hopefully during that time, we can come together with a better governance. I doubt that will happen during our lifetimes though, as we're living through the greatest failure of our government, and people still want to vote for one of two people who will both make it worse.

People don't have a choice but to vote for these two people. They just think the person they vote for is less bad than the person the other people vote for.

The system is busted.
Yes, it’s broken. While the Constitution gives the right to rebel to fix a broken system, the military won’t let that happen. Also, secession is illegal, so the states can’t declare themselves as countries without suffering the wrath of the military, even if the seceded states don’t start attacking their former country. Then again, it was illegal for the 14 colonies to secede too, but they did. What if all states seceded simultaneously? Then there wouldn’t be United States anymore, it would be the Washington DC and the territories, or if the territories seceded too, then just Washington. Maybe lots of smaller countries could be better than the one big one we have now...Given the Civil War, this will not be peaceful.

The two parties, Democrat and Republican, weren’t always existent, nor were they always the largest, what would cause them to split into smaller parties, thus giving the myriad of third parties a chance to gain power? The problem is that we need to somehow make it so the same thing doesn’t happen again. If the country collapses with no plan of what happens next, there will be a power vacuum, which would likely be filled with a dictator. Somehow this needs to be prevented. We need to ensure we don’t repeat the mistakes of the past that got us to this situation, and also not repeat mistakes which would get us into a worse situation. These are just thoughts I have. If there is going to be change, there needs to be a plan, otherwise there will be chaos. Different groups will have different plans. Different groups may disagree with whether a dictatorship is good or bad. Different groups have differing opinions on what a better system would be. I do not claim to have the answers, I am just saying that there are numerous paths to how the current government may fall, and more paths to what the new government may be, or even no government at all, not over all territory, there may be separate countries, taking up regions that were parts of former states, states may not continue to be, maybe expanding to take territory from other states, maybe splitting into more countries within the former borders, or maybe companies will just take the reigns of government directly and stop using it as a middle man, thus turning a country into a large company, or turning a large company into a country, depending on what perspective, or maybe multiple companies take over different sections, more likely they will merge, because why not? These merged companies can still pretend to be rival companies, even though they are not.

There are many directions the future can lead
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36459 on: April 26, 2020, 03:09:09 pm »

Indeed, there's nothing complicated about Trump at all. His mindset is that of the average midwestern boomer, and is in no way particularly special. I've known a dozen Trumps in my life, even people who are worse on average than him.

In a way, he's the most average President this country has ever had, which is why we're doomed as a society.
Really can't agree with your general thrust on this (not the least of which because you identify him as a mid-western boomer...). But he's a narcissist, not a "typical boomer." To confuse the two undermines your point, as I've known many selfish people in my time, and none are so nasty as the narcissists I know.

See, if you had said they weren't unique or special you could be very correct. There are many indeed, and curiously narcissists are profoundly similar in character and outlook, regardless of whether they are actually intelligent or fools, rich/poor or anything in between. But misunderstanding the narcissistic mindset is precisely how one finds themselves at their mercy, because they don't act like "normal" people would, even people in their demographic strata.
Trump is an idiot, but that type of behavior is the one thing in the world that I think he's good at.  And if you've ever had experience with an abusive person or narcissist, you know that it's not really about some grand strategy that involves thinking really far ahead.  It's more of an evolved instinct.  He probably isn't even consciously aware of the meaning of what he's doing.  But even if it's not consciously intended, it's still a behavior that's learned for the purpose of laying the groundwork for being able to conveniently pick from an array of shifting narratives in the future.  It's not even anything complicated.  It's a really simple formula.  It just appears like intelligent grand strategy thinking to people when you try to describe what it is, because it's not how most people think and short-circuits the things they take for granted about social fabric.
SalmonGod is (mostly) right - save that in my experience they are at least aware of it, enough to tell you how helpless you are. But regardless the behavior is, in my experience (both personal, and what I've heard from others, what I've read, and what I've seen on Jury Duty), remarkably similar across individuals in profoundly different situations, so much so that it cannot be anything but convergent (personal) evolution. Certain circumstances, none unique to demographic backgrounds (namely certain childhood situations or long-term exposure to a narcissist as a child) can bring it out, and when brought out it acts the same, to a degree which is genuinely remarkable.

Trump acts out the precise formula of the Narcissist's Prayer, every time. So yes, it's not unique to him personally, although his personal circumstances (namely being the son of a realty mogul) allowed him to parley it into wealth and power. But it's not common, either, maybe 1% of individuals. They can't be too common, as narcissists ultimately need other, normal people to feed off of.
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RazielReaver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36460 on: April 26, 2020, 03:49:38 pm »

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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36462 on: April 26, 2020, 05:22:40 pm »

How does the UV light get into your cells to kill the virus?
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Naturegirl1999

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36463 on: April 26, 2020, 05:37:02 pm »

How does the UV light get into your cells to kill the virus?
It’s ionizing radiation, it can already get into skin cells, which is what sunburn is caused by. It will kill your cells too by messing up DNA by removing electrons from atoms, making them ions, which will mess with the chemical bonds of not only the virus, but also your cells, and DNA, RNA, organelles, cytoplasm...
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ZBridges

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #36464 on: April 26, 2020, 06:06:54 pm »

Wait, Trump was right?
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