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[LoSboccacc]

And normally that people will complain about art style and graphics. If you make cartoony crap that has nothing to do with both DoW 1 and DoW 2, people will complain, if you downgraded graphics compared to DoW 2 to make it more clean an appeal to MOBa population  people will complain, and they should. It even worries me that all the gameplay we saw, the number of units is not exactly huge, and not yet close to the number we had with actual DoW 1 game. And this is all from promotion  and heavy scripted materials of best part of the game for marketing.

I had high hopes but in that 12 minute gameplay trailer the guy told nothing but how the game is made to appeal the MOBA crowd, from the visual style to the ability to the microing (heck look at the missile ability where you have to aim each single missile to the ground!) 

there's still a chance it will be more starcraft (thefirst) than lol, but seems very faint now

[Jopax]

So DoW 1 and 2 were also mobalike because they had targetable abilities then. Or is there a specific line to cross before a game becomes a mobalike isntead of a regular old RTS?

[Aklyon]

No, those were just 'this unit has an ability it can use sometimes'.
The point seems to be 'they keep referencing how x is like a moba in the video'. That is not how you advertise an rts. That how you advertise a HAMS.

[Jopax]

So an activatable ability that you can use every now and then, just like a hero power in a moba, or a unit ability in an RTS. It's the same damn thing for fucks sake. And the reason they're referencing mobas might be because there aren't that many mainstream RTS games to reference. There's Starcraft 2, and that's about it, everything else is niche at best.
So if you want to reach a wide audience, do you advertise for a niche, or for one of the biggest playerbases today?

[LoSboccacc]

Moba crowd is not just large, is large and mostly committed. You don't change game once you're pro to become mediocre at another. Also they're quite late to the market for it and starcraft 2 bombing the moba stage didn't exactly point to the decision being any wiser. Or in dilbert words:

[Aklyon]

Plus, the people that want an rts (what dawn of war is), want an rts, not a 40k dota. The latter will fail like all the other ones that aren't LoL/Dota/Smite at this point.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

So we're once again ignoring what they said they wanted to do with the gameplay in favour of kneejerk and wild conjecture? Ok, consider me out then, you have fun wallowing in that sour drink of yours, I'll be over here waiting for a concrete confirmation in a form of actual gameplay before calling it a filthy mobalike.

Also miljan, it's not just performance, it's also clarity, and cost, and a fucking alpha so of course it's going to look shittier than the previous complete products. But once again, sure, ignore whatever they say because they're lying scumbags who secretly want to sell you a filthy casual moba game.

Honestly, I wish they didn't release anyithing this early, would've saved a lot of jimmies from being rustled really.

Yes, because that's the IP's modus operandi these days. Devs spout a lot of shit, most of it never comes to fruition or is flat-out false. And once again, yes, they probably are scumbags that want to push MOBA/Mobile/Shit product, why? BECAUSE THAT IS THE IP'S MODUS OPERANDI THESE DAYS.

Oh, what's that? You don't believe me? Well let's take a look at the fucking record:

Carnage Champions
Talisman: The Horus Heresy
Eisenhorn: Xenos
Eternal Crusade (just to exemplify the sort of grand tzeenchian scheming that never comes to fruition)
Legacy of Dorn: Herald of Oblivion
Deathwatch
Regicide
Kill Team

Spacehulk is hit-or-miss for most
and the only reason Armageddon isn't on this list, is because it's more-or-less what was expected.

So DoW 1 and 2 were also mobalike because they had targetable abilities then. Or is there a specific line to cross before a game becomes a mobalike isntead of a regular old RTS?

There IS a line to cross. To stick with the example specified, there are plenty of RTSes with directed bombardment, how many force/allow you to mark the spot for every. single. rocket/round/shell?

So an activatable ability that you can use every now and then, just like a hero power in a moba, or a unit ability in an RTS. It's the same damn thing for fucks sake. And the reason they're referencing mobas might be because there aren't that many mainstream RTS games to reference. There's Starcraft 2, and that's about it, everything else is niche at best.
So if you want to reach a wide audience, do you advertise for a niche, or for one of the biggest playerbases today?

Heroes are the worst part of DoW honestly, because 40k isn't really about heroes. They're a fun PART of an army in DoW1, but when you make them the WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME, it really loses it's character. DoWII was the definition of an unworthy sequel, and only The Last Stand salvaged any fun gameplay.

[Aklyon]

Eternal Crusade (just to exemplify the sort of grand tzeenchian scheming that never comes to fruition)

Just to be sure, is that thing still going or did they give up on it? I remember hearing about it maybe twice, years apart.

[Jopax]

Who are they supposed to cater to then? The hardcore RTS folks which are so niche nowadays that they're practically extinct? Also I love how people aren't able to play more than one game, or it might just be the moba genre that sucks up all your time so you can't do anything else, then again, I was just fine playing three different mobas and whatever else had my interest at the time :S

And again, for the umpteenth time, they are making an RTS, a DoW RTS, they've said as much, and have shown as much, even if it is alpha, it shows the basics of what could be a good DoW RTS, about the only thing that I missed was capturing control points and taking territory.

@Urist, none of those games were made by Relic, in fact, the only good 40k games in recent times were the ones Relic made (BFG might be good too, haven't played it myself so I can't judge). And Eternal Crusade is still in production, so it has a sliver of a chance to turn out decent and fun. But I guess calling a game shit before it's anywhere near done is to be expected in this case :V

Also what difference does it make how much ammo is fired on each ability activation? How is it different from having a lower damage rocket barrage that you can spam just as much?

It honestly feels like you're hating on it simply because it's not an exact copy of DoW, latching onto any little difference as much as you can.

Also super funny how in the very same post you berate the game for appearing more mobalike and say the only redeeming quality of DoW was it's moba mode.

[LoSboccacc]

Plus, the people that want an rts (what dawn of war is), want an rts, not a 40k dota. The latter will fail like all the other ones that aren't LoL/Dota/Smite at this point.

beside there's already a 40k-ish dota (helldivers); beside that previous 40k moba bombed (Dark Nexus Arena), and beside THAT there's Eternal Crusade which would fit the e-sport bill much better

[KingofstarrySkies]

Did you just say
That helldivers, was similar,
To defense of the ancients

I quit.

[Frumple]

That, uh. Does sound like someone that has perhaps not played or seen footage of either helldivers or dota.

Plus, the people that want an rts (what dawn of war is), want an rts, not a 40k dota. The latter will fail like all the other ones that aren't LoL/Dota/Smite at this point.

It's okay if I still want a 40k AoS, now that they've got somewhat indicated maybe something in that direction, right? 40k dota would be shit, but a 40k AoS-style game that actually plays to 40k thematic strengths instead of arse spelunking up dota-derivative design could be really goddamn good, and still involve quite a lot of what RTS games do.

[Aklyon]

I honestly have no idea how AoS works besides 'it turned into the dotas', so I don't have a response for you, frumple.

[Frumple]

... ever played the battlezone games? Think sacrifice would actually also be something closer to it than your average RTS. Not really there, but in that direction design wise. Basically an RTS, with the scale, numbers, etc., of one, but you control one or a small number of units/characters and influence things more directly than God From Sky the Nth. More or less automating most of the micromanagement away, leaving the player to focus on, y'know. Actually doing things.

[Hetairos]

If they wanted to fill that niche why not make something based off Last Stand? It was pretty well liked as far as I can tell.

I don't understand one thing. First a cinematic trailer is released, with Eldar wraithbone looking like actual bone and so on. Meanwhile, the game itself looks like something else entirely. There isn't so much dissonance when it comes to, say, DoW I and II's intros and the game's aesthetic. What's up with that?