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[Deus Asmoth]

Mature.

[BlackHeartKabal]

Right, so what you're saying is that moving to interact with you less is immature, so the mature thing to do would be disrupt the game further and argue with you, correct?

[origamiscienceguy]

Right, so what you're saying is that moving to interact with you less is immature, so the mature thing to do would be disrupt the game further and argue with you, correct?

Yes. Because that makes meaningfull content that others can use to decide which one of you they agree with, rather than just looking at your opinion post and try to come up with content elsewhere.

[BlackHeartKabal]

Right, so what you're saying is that moving to interact with you less is immature, so the mature thing to do would be disrupt the game further and argue with you, correct?

Yes. Because that makes meaningfull content that others can use to decide which one of you they agree with, rather than just looking at your opinion post and try to come up with content elsewhere.

I don't really like to argue with people, but from what I've seen, there's no middle ground with Deus either. And from what I know from dealing with people who speak like Deus, he's just going to step over me if I just submit and say "I'll change my playstyle accordingly" or somewhere along that.

[origamiscienceguy]

Well, I know that just saying, "I don't like you, therefore die." Is certainly not a very constructive or informative action.

BlackHeartKabal

[BlackHeartKabal]

So why do you excuse him for the same action?

[BlackHeartKabal]

BHK. I find it annoying when people do that.

You find it annoying when a power role acts like they have a sense of self preservation before they're publicly known, and are using being annoyed as your justification for voting me?

1. Every player in this game has a power role.
2. Saying that you're more worthy of preservation than other people is more likely to draw attention to yourself from scum if you're town.
3. Saying "If I die, it'll be really bad for everyone else, trust me" is fear mongering and scummy.
4. You're not committing to any case before you get a green light by someone else making that case first (see your FoS on Jack so that you could pursue a case on him later without it looking suspicious rather than just voting for him if you thought he was suspicious).
5. Yes, I also voted for you because the "I'm super important to the town, don't be suspicious of me" schtick annoys me. Does that irritate you?

[BlackHeartKabal]

To be honest, I'd prefer we get back to the game, instead of a stupid argument that's starting to mix into the game.

[origamiscienceguy]

So why do you excuse him for the same action?

I'm voting for you of my own accord. Deus Asmoth has his own reasons to vote you.

[Jack A T]

BHK: Two things.  One's in the spoiler.  The other is more important.  Test setup: ask Meph the following question by PM:
"Suppose you have three posts: A, B, and C.  A is Corrupted, B is Tainted, and C is Normal.  A includes a quote of B and B quotes C.
Two Flowing Rivers are acting in the night.  One pours A and the other pours B.  Assuming nothing else happens in the night, what is the resulting state of posts A, B, and C?"

Do not reveal the answer in-thread.

Spoiler: Comments on Norms, Self-Preservation, and Such (click to show/hide)

And unless someone other than you would like to come forward with tips to my playstyle, then I'm going to what I think is just, and keep it up to spite you. If not for this being a mafia game, I'd start ignoring your posts too.

I'll come forward.  What's happened here is pretty simple, I think: you tripped over some local norms, the most important being one about image-driven play.  Basically, scum is expected to prioritize looking town in its day game, while town is expected to prioritize catching scum (with image being, at most, secondary).  The result: disapproval of players making scumhunting decisions based on how they would look to the town.  Then you did the "I'm an important PR" defense, which is associated here mostly with the idea of scum trying to appeal their way out of being lynched, after scum trying that enough times (and it kind of undermined your effort not to get noticed by the scum).

These norms do not mean that you shouldn't try to avoid being killed as a powerful PR, of course, but they do shape the set of effective strategies.

There are basically two major ways to avoid unwanted attention.  One, lurking, isn't fun and everyone hates it.  Don't do it.  The other is to look, well, average.  Be in the mushy middle of town play.  Don't hold back because you think acting would 'look odd' (this is itself a way to stick out from the crowd), but don't be one of the main forces driving the game forward.  Question, attack, argue, fight...play pretty much like a normal player.  Add new material when your attack would otherwise be identical to someone else's.

And never, ever say you were trying not to look odd.  That looks odd.

Well, I know that just saying, "I don't like you, therefore die." Is certainly not a very constructive or informative action.
BlackHeartKabal

OSG: I'd like to see you say why the evidence against BHK outweighs the evidence I see in his favour, as summarized in my reads, please.

[BlackHeartKabal]

[spoiler=Comments on Norms, Self-Preservation, and Such]

And unless someone other than you would like to come forward with tips to my playstyle, then I'm going to what I think is just, and keep it up to spite you. If not for this being a mafia game, I'd start ignoring your posts too.

I'll come forward.  What's happened here is pretty simple, I think: you tripped over some local norms, the most important being one about image-driven play.  Basically, scum is expected to prioritize looking town in its day game, while town is expected to prioritize catching scum (with image being, at most, secondary).  The result: disapproval of players making scumhunting decisions based on how they would look to the town.  Then you did the "I'm an important PR" defense, which is associated here mostly with the idea of scum trying to appeal their way out of being lynched, after scum trying that enough times (and it kind of undermined your effort not to get noticed by the scum).

These norms do not mean that you shouldn't try to avoid being killed as a powerful PR, of course, but they do shape the set of effective strategies.

There are basically two major ways to avoid unwanted attention.  One, lurking, isn't fun and everyone hates it.  Don't do it.  The other is to look, well, average.  Be in the mushy middle of town play.  Don't hold back because you think acting would 'look odd' (this is itself a way to stick out from the crowd), but don't be one of the main forces driving the game forward.  Question, attack, argue, fight...play pretty much like a normal player.  Add new material when your attack would otherwise be identical to someone else's.

And never, ever say you were trying not to look odd.  That looks odd.

Lovely. I'll put that in Notepad, thank you.
Back to the game, now we have Deus having quoted the posts. But did Deus quote as many tainted posts as he could? I thought there were more.

[Deus Asmoth]

Well, I know that just saying, "I don't like you, therefore die." Is certainly not a very constructive or informative action.

BlackHeartKabal

OSG, are you advocating a policy lynch on someone who's essentially confirmed as town here?

[Jack A T]

BHK: Deus quoted seven posts just now.  One was one of your corrupted posts, five were posts that quoted a ton of posts (great for spreading), and one's a Persus post (testing).

I'm thinking a good approach may be for one of us to pour the other corrupted post (getting rid of the corruption, in exchange for a tiny bit of taint) and the other, designated via a question about Meph's answer, handling Post 221, which the Wellspring would purify.

[origamiscienceguy]

Well, I know that just saying, "I don't like you, therefore die." Is certainly not a very constructive or informative action.

BlackHeartKabal

OSG, are you advocating a policy lynch on someone who's essentially confirmed as town here?

Confirmed town? Where?

[Mephansteras]

The Vote Tally
BlackHeartKabal: origamiscienceguy, TheDarkStar
fillipk: Deus Asmoth
origamiscienceguy: Jack A T
TheDarkStar: BlackHeartKabal, Persus13


Day ends ~4pm Pacific Friday