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FUCK YES LET'S LEAVE GET HYPE YEY

Casual yes, let's leave and get independence done with

Meh, probably just scribble all over my vote ballot to spite tryhards

Casual no, let's remain and get integration done with

FUCK NO LET'S REMAIN GET CALM YEY

[NJW2000]

Let's just tell the people who will have to live the rest of their lives with this decision that their vote means less than some angsty teenager who's been fed propaganda from day one and who is most likely ill equipped to sort fact from said propaganda. As was previously mentioned, the old are the ones risking the most material possessions in this decision. It's not as if everyone over 30 (the age at which remain and leave became fairly 50/50 in the polls) suddenly decided to screw posterity, their children and their grandchildren. Selfishness, despite the heavy implications of those using age as an argument, was not a prime feature of their decision making process.

The presence of people sometimes defined as "wogs" in the UK, and the movement of more of such people from the EU into Britain, I think may have been a prime feature, at least for a deciding proportion of the vote.

Annoyance at this, though I am admitttedly a hormonal stew dependent on my parents for political opinions, I would tentatively call understandable.

No problem. Not everyone is brave enough to confess being a racist and a xenophobe in public. It's commendable, really.

Ahem. I missed this post, and may have failed to make clear that my annoyance was at the vote being decided by racist cunts, not at the current immigration laws.

Which should have been fairly obvious from the context of the discussion at the time.

[SirQuiamus]

Look at the bright side. Brexit won't really affect immigrants from former UK colonies like India. It will mostly hit slavs from the eastern europe who are most certainly white so it's not racist to gate them out if need be.

So wanting to make the Slavs a subjugated race of serfs wasn't racist back in the '40s?

Serious answer: No, it wasn't.

[sluissa]

I don't understand where this whole idea of "if you wanna leave you're racist" is based in other than propaganda. The vast majority of the leavers I've talked to (and I admit, I'm not from that side of the pond, so I can't say I've talked to a ton and only in online formats.) have said they voted leave because they didn't like other countries making their laws for them. They wanted Britain to stand on its own. Immigration may have been a big thing of the UKIP platform, but barely anyone other than the remain side has brought it up usually to say how racist the leavers are and how stupid they are because it won't change.

That didn't seem to matter to the leavers.

[Leafsnail]

Oh boy we're back to dictionary arguments about racism. My favourite.

[ChairmanPoo]

Look at the bright side. Brexit won't really affect immigrants from former UK colonies like India. It will mostly hit slavs from the eastern europe who are most certainly white so it's not racist to gate them out if need be.

So wanting to make the Slavs a subjugated race of serfs wasn't racist back in the '40s?

Serious answer: No, it wasn't.

If you make up racial categories on the spot to discriminate caucasians from different regions than your own it's still racism you know.

[SirQuiamus]

the forebrain isn't fully developed until around 25. Myelination, which is an important part of cognitive ability for both essentially everything but particularly reasoning, is yet to really finish coating everything until that point.

Age:                      18

:^D

Look at the bright side. Brexit won't really affect immigrants from former UK colonies like India. It will mostly hit slavs from the eastern europe who are most certainly white so it's not racist to gate them out if need be.

So wanting to make the Slavs a subjugated race of serfs wasn't racist back in the '40s?

Serious answer: No, it wasn't.

If you make up racial categories on the spot to discriminate caucasians from different regions than your own it's still racism you know.

Not at the time, it wasn't.

[Frumple]

That didn't seem to matter to the leavers.

Immigration was literally the second most important reason voters went leave. About a third of leave voters had that as their number one reason for voting as they did. Not all of them were racist, of course. Some probably had some reason or another to think the UK would have more control of their immigration policies if divorced from the EU (Opt out? What opt out?), however accurate that belief was.

But you're kinda' deluding yourself if you think a substantial amount of those who voted primarily due to immigration weren't racist, or at least notably xenophobic, to one degree or another. Nor that all of those who voted primarily for other reasons didn't have immigration, and to whatever degree or lack thereof the dog whistles involved, as a notably reason besides their main. There's incredibly little doubt racism and xenophobia had a pretty substantial effect in how the referendum played out.

[sluissa]

That didn't seem to matter to the leavers.

Immigration was literally the second most important reason voters went leave. About a third of leave voters had that as their number one reason for voting as they did. Not all of them were racist, of course. Some probably had some reason or another to think the UK would have more control of their immigration policies if divorced from the EU (Opt out? What opt out?), however accurate that belief was.

But you're kinda' deluding yourself if you think a substantial amount of those who voted primarily due to immigration weren't racist, or at least notably xenophobic, to one degree or another. Nor that all of those who voted primarily for other reasons didn't have immigration, and to whatever degree or lack thereof the dog whistles involved, as a notably reason besides their main. There's incredibly little doubt racism and xenophobia had a pretty substantial effect in how the referendum played out.

1/3 does not mean the majority is "racist" even if you assume everyone that cared most about immigration was "racist". And that was a "please rank in order" question. They had to put it somewhere in there. It's notable that the #1 option was the same as what I've been hearing from people. That they wanted the UK to govern itself.

[ChairmanPoo]

the forebrain isn't fully developed until around 25. Myelination, which is an important part of cognitive ability for both essentially everything but particularly reasoning, is yet to really finish coating everything until that point.

Age:                      18

:^D

Look at the bright side. Brexit won't really affect immigrants from former UK colonies like India. It will mostly hit slavs from the eastern europe who are most certainly white so it's not racist to gate them out if need be.

So wanting to make the Slavs a subjugated race of serfs wasn't racist back in the '40s?

Serious answer: No, it wasn't.

If you make up racial categories on the spot to discriminate caucasians from different regions than your own it's still racism you know.

Not at the time, it wasn't.

Yes. Yes it was

Edit: why are you making apologetics about Nazi Germany anyway?

[Rolepgeek]

the forebrain isn't fully developed until around 25. Myelination, which is an important part of cognitive ability for both essentially everything but particularly reasoning, is yet to really finish coating everything until that point.

Age:                      18

:^D

I'm curious as to what you hoped to accomplish with this. I did say at the end of that paragraph that I was a young voter.

[Frumple]

1/3 does not mean the majority is "racist" even if you assume everyone that cared most about immigration was "racist". And that was a "please rank in order" question. They had to put it somewhere in there. It's notable that the #1 option was the same as what I've been hearing from people. That they wanted the UK to govern itself.

I said nothing about majority, slui. I said it had a major effect. It's pretty clear that, yes, xenophobia and racism had a major effect.

Would it be enough to flip the results if there hadn't been a substantial amount of xenophobia and racism motivating the leave vote? Hell if I know. But it's fairly likely the vote would have been at least a lot closer if that hadn't been involved.

And heh. As someone that's lived in areas that have significant issues with racism all my life, let me tell you a lot of them very fervently express their desire to govern themselves (their state, country, whatever) -- because it'd let them screw over whatever their target groups are. Kinda' like how "states rights" in the US is a major dog whistle for a number of subjects. Some folks definitely play it straight, and mean what they say. Quite a few don't.

[mainiac]

It really grinds my gears how people act like truthfully describing hateful views is more offensive then actually having hateful views.

[Rolepgeek]

It's fine to truthfully describe hateful views. The trick is figuring out when people actually have them. The fact that racism and nationalism is a thing means that tribalism is alive and well - and that goes for those of us fighting for progress, too. And if someone's is in the opposing tribe, it's real easy to think of them as evil, no matter what they might actually think as individuals.

Plus, it's really hard to get people to see your perspective when your perspective is that they're awful human beings. People tend to dislike that.

[mainiac]

The trick is figuring out when people actually have them.

Anyone with even a casual familiarity with the human race should know that at least a few percentage points of the voters in the Brexit were racist.

I dont like leaping to accusations of racism and sexism very broadly.  But pointing out the obvious is like pulling teeth.  Yes, there were racist voters in the Brexit.  Maybe only a few percentage points.  It was probably enough to swing the election.  That is just the reality of close elections.  The side that is attractive to the racists got some support from racists.  It doesn't mean things are illegitimate or anything undemocratic like that.  But free speech means being free to point out the truth.

I dont think that we should rub this fact in everyones faces constantly.  But just because it's not polite to rub it in anyones face doesn't mean we should deny it.  If people go around denying it that is when it becomes necessary to do the face rubbing.

[BFEL]

It really grinds my gears how people act like truthfully describing hateful views is more offensive then actually having hateful views.

It grinds my gears how people assume you have hateful views if you display the slightest modicum of self preservation.

But apparently "I would feel safer if there was at least an attempt made at a background check before letting a person into my country" now means the same thing as "I want all those sand monkeys thrown in death camps" so I guess I'm literally Hitler.